[Rapscallion St Croix]

My recently graduated granddaughter just finished her first week of teaching third grade in Jacksonville. She had to deal with three fist fights complete with foul language and plenty of rowdy classroom behavior. One of her students stole her wallet...she got it back. Yesterday was payday and she was welcomed to the real world of FICA and Social Security Withholding. I guess first year students get the problem gigs. Sometime down the road, she should be able to use seniority to get into a great school. She is an idealist and believes she can make a change where she is. I apologized to her for my generation's contributions to the downfall of society. She didn't get it. I guess you had to grow up in the days of the Cleavers to understand the good old days.

[jblum315]

The Cleavers was pure fiction. The 50s were nothing like Cleavers or Norman Rockwell. The 50s were women stuck at home or working for a pittance. The main difference was that just as many bad things happened but we didn't know about them

[RickeyD]

Originally Posted by jblum315

The Cleavers was pure fiction. The 50s were nothing like Cleavers or Norman Rockwell. The 50s were women stuck at home or working for a pittance. The main difference was that just as many bad things happened but we didn't know about them

I agree. My parents told me nothing of the real world, I told my kids everything. Ignorance is bliss, but not for long.

[redwitch]

While we didn't fight in the classroom, there sure were a lot of fights after school and even occasionally at recess. I wil admit we didn't use a lot of foul language (wasn't common on TV or radio back then nor was it acceptable if a female was around) nor was rowdy behavior in the classroom very acceptable, at least not in elementary school. Don't know about your schools but I know when I was in an American public school, kids knew that if they misbehaved in class, a visit to the principal and his paddle was the next thing that would happen. I'm not convinced corporal punishment is an answer but we do need to quit tying teachers' and schools' hands. Some sort of discipline is needed and just giving a kid a colored card for acting out doesn't cut it.

As to the 50's being so great, they weren't. The Cleavers and the Nelsons only existed on television. Real life wasn't that easy. Kids were molested back then, child and spousal abuse was not only common but accepted, women and minorities were relegated to subservient positions. Lynchings were common. These things just didn't make the news or, if an incident did make the news, it was usually whitewashed. The statistics on child sexual abuse in the 50s is abysmal. Sorry, with all of the problems and issues today, I'd never want to go back. It seems the 50's were really only good if you were a white, educated male (even though we kids really did have a lot fun and really didn't know nor understand a lot of what was happening in our world).

[Topspinmo]

Yep, it's gotten much better in big city schools. Give me break. The big problems started with children when day care started raising them cause mommy and daddy both had to work or daddy was nowhere to be found.

[Fraugoofy]

Originally Posted by Rapscallion St Croix

My recently graduated granddaughter just finished her first week of teaching third grade in Jacksonville. She had to deal with three fist fights complete with foul language and plenty of rowdy classroom behavior. One of her students stole her wallet...she got it back. Yesterday was payday and she was welcomed to the real world of FICA and Social Security Withholding. I guess first year students get the problem gigs. Sometime down the road, she should be able to use seniority to get into a great school. She is an idealist and believes she can make a change where she is. I apologized to her for my generation's contributions to the downfall of society. She didn't get it. I guess you had to grow up in the days of the Cleavers to understand the good old days.

Unless she teaches in Wisconsin, where there is no more seniority...

Sent from my SM-N910R4 using Tapatalk

[Bogie Shooter]

Originally Posted by redwitch

While we didn't fight in the classroom, there sure were a lot of fights after school and even occasionally at recess. I wil admit we didn't use a lot of foul language (wasn't common on TV or radio back then nor was it acceptable if a female was around) nor was rowdy behavior in the classroom very acceptable, at least not in elementary school. Don't know about your schools but I know when I was in an American public school, kids knew that if they misbehaved in class, a visit to the principal and his paddle was the next thing that would happen. I'm not convinced corporal punishment is an answer but we do need to quit tying teachers' and schools' hands. Some sort of discipline is needed and just giving a kid a colored card for acting out doesn't cut it.

As to the 50's being so great, they weren't. The Cleavers and the Nelsons only existed on television. Real life wasn't that easy. Kids were molested back then, child and spousal abuse was not only common but accepted, women and minorities were relegated to subservient positions. Lynchings were common. These things just didn't make the news or, if an incident did make the news, it was usually whitewashed. The statistics on child sexual abuse in the 50s is abysmal. Sorry, with all of the problems and issues today, I'd never want to go back. It seems the 50's were really only good if you were a white, educated male (even though we kids really did have a lot fun and really didn't know nor understand a lot of what was happening in our world).

Thanks for taking the time for this excellent post.

[2BNTV]

I remember when my son got his first paycheck ans said, increduously, "Dad, you won't believe how much they took out of my paycheck".

I said, yes, I would, about 33%. I was right on the money, (no pun intended). I also said, "welcome to my world". Uncle Sam will always have his hand in your back pocket.

The person who introduced me to TV daughter, was a school teacher and he constantly teased her about how easy she had it, with all her time off. She usually retorted, "I put more hours in, with the planning on lessons and grading paperwork", than you do with your job.

Teaching is a tough profession as another friend retired as early as she could, because of the grind.

Best of luck with your granddaughter.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by jblum315

The Cleavers was pure fiction. The 50s were nothing like Cleavers or Norman Rockwell. The 50s were women stuck at home or working for a pittance. The main difference was that just as many bad things happened but we didn't know about them

Well, it was tv show

sorry have raise the bs flag!


So you think all Americans lived in slums and women was enslaved when they got married. Who do think lived in all those big expense houses. PEople better off the Ward cleaver. Not all woman want to work, they were prefectly happen being homemaker and raising GOOD kids. Which majority was not in bondage as some insist.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by Bogie Shooter

Thanks for taking the time for this excellent post.

I disagree

[Nucky]

////

[Cedwards38]

Originally Posted by redwitch

While we didn't fight in the classroom, there sure were a lot of fights after school and even occasionally at recess. I wil admit we didn't use a lot of foul language (wasn't common on TV or radio back then nor was it acceptable if a female was around) nor was rowdy behavior in the classroom very acceptable, at least not in elementary school. Don't know about your schools but I know when I was in an American public school, kids knew that if they misbehaved in class, a visit to the principal and his paddle was the next thing that would happen. I'm not convinced corporal punishment is an answer but we do need to quit tying teachers' and schools' hands. Some sort of discipline is needed and just giving a kid a colored card for acting out doesn't cut it.

As to the 50's being so great, they weren't. The Cleavers and the Nelsons only existed on television. Real life wasn't that easy. Kids were molested back then, child and spousal abuse was not only common but accepted, women and minorities were relegated to subservient positions. Lynchings were common. These things just didn't make the news or, if an incident did make the news, it was usually whitewashed. The statistics on child sexual abuse in the 50s is abysmal. Sorry, with all of the problems and issues today, I'd never want to go back. It seems the 50's were really only good if you were a white, educated male (even though we kids really did have a lot fun and really didn't know nor understand a lot of what was happening in our world).

Great post. And I might add about the 50's:
(1) Kids with mental and physical handicaps were simply excluded from schools and their families did the best they could.
(2) Segregation ruled, and black kids were sent to inferior schools with inferior books, teachers, and buildings. Yes, I know Brown v. Board happened in 1954 but it took decades for real implementation.
(3) Many school buildings were fire hazards waiting to happen.
(4) Teachers were not required to have four year degrees. Many teachers had one or two years of college for preparation.
(5) Schools did not recognize factors like poverty, hunger, health, etc in educating children. Well, more precisely, they recognized it, but did nothing to try to address it.

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by redwitch

While we didn't fight in the classroom, there sure were a lot of fights after school and even occasionally at recess. I wil admit we didn't use a lot of foul language (wasn't common on TV or radio back then nor was it acceptable if a female was around) nor was rowdy behavior in the classroom very acceptable, at least not in elementary school. Don't know about your schools but I know when I was in an American public school, kids knew that if they misbehaved in class, a visit to the principal and his paddle was the next thing that would happen. I'm not convinced corporal punishment is an answer but we do need to quit tying teachers' and schools' hands. Some sort of discipline is needed and just giving a kid a colored card for acting out doesn't cut it.

As to the 50's being so great, they weren't. The Cleavers and the Nelsons only existed on television. Real life wasn't that easy. Kids were molested back then, child and spousal abuse was not only common but accepted, women and minorities were relegated to subservient positions. Lynchings were common. These things just didn't make the news or, if an incident did make the news, it was usually whitewashed. The statistics on child sexual abuse in the 50s is abysmal. Sorry, with all of the problems and issues today, I'd never want to go back. It seems the 50's were really only good if you were a white, educated male (even though we kids really did have a lot fun and really didn't know nor understand a lot of what was happening in our world).

This might be more of a view of a 2000 base of knowledge, applied looking back at the 50's. A much different view of the 50's vs actually living in the 50's.....

[Schaumburger]

Originally Posted by Cedwards38

Great post. And I might add about the 50's:
(1) Kids with mental and physical handicaps were simply excluded from schools and their families did the best they could.
(2) Segregation ruled, and black kids were sent to inferior schools with inferior books, teachers, and buildings. Yes, I know Brown v. Board happened in 1954 but it took decades for real implementation.
(3) Many school buildings were fire hazards waiting to happen.
(4) Teachers were not required to have four year degrees. Many teachers had one or two years of college for preparation.
(5) Schools did not recognize factors like poverty, hunger, health, etc in educating children. Well, more precisely, they recognized it, but did nothing to try to address it.

As to point #3, Google "Our Lady of the Angels school fire."

On December 1, 1958, the Our Lady of the Angels School in Chicago, Illinois, was destroyed by fire. Ninety-two students and three nuns died as a result of the fire; dozens more suffered serious injuries while escaping the burning building. Investigations into the fire revealed inadequate fire protection and safety systems within the school, which contributed to the loss of life.

[JoMar]

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

Yep, it's gotten much better in big city schools. Give me break. The big problems started with children when day care started raising them cause mommy and daddy both had to work or daddy was nowhere to be found.

Add taking authoity away from teachers, parents not accepting responsibility for their kids (whose parents and teachers back in the 50's didn't prepare kids for real life?), the elimination of courses from curriculums that ould help them understand real world and paying teachers for time served rather than performance. Sorry, but I believe the 50's and 60's were better because personal responsibility and respect was expected. I agree racial tensions had a long way to go and while not there, progress has been made. I agree that women were in a different category but progress has been made. Progress is made when everyone wants to participate and contribute, not a lot of that going on these days.