[mneumann02]

There are a lot of questions concerning police shootings such as "Why didn't the police shoot to wound the person?" or "Why did they have to shoot him so many times?" I know I won't change anyone's mind with a simple post here, but my experience might help temper some views.

A few years ago, I was fortunate to be chosen for an FBI Citizen Training Course. There were 25 of us in the 10 week class. Participant citizens ranged from Black activists to far right conservatives. Subjects covered in the 4 1/2 hour weekly sessions included terrorism, white collar crime, kidnapping, violent crimes and "When and How to Use a Firearm."

The FBI trained us that if someone is life-threatening (to you or someone else) and you decide you to shoot, you shoot until the threat is ended. Only in Wild West movies does someone shoot to knock the gun out of the bad guy's hand or shoot to wound. To prove this important point, the FBI set up a very life-like full scale video on a wall with a very real looking and feeling fake gun that interacted with what was being shown. We each took turns as an FBI agent deciding if, when and whom to shoot. It was so real many of us were shaking during our turn as the video was played. Our first guy up shot the bad guy one time, and as the bad guy fell, he turned to us and smiled as he blew the imagined smoke from his gun barrel. Unfortunately for our "pretend" FBI agent, as the bad guy fell, he emptied his revolver into the back of the "agent."

At first the Black activist refused to role-play, but eventually did. He was shaking as he kept yelling, "FBI, drop the weapon!" When he finally decided to shoot, he not only emptied the gun's 8 round capacity, he reloaded and shot a couple more times. (They still talk about this in that FBI office.)

I asked a question. How do you know when to shoot? The FBI agent handed me the fake gun and said I was an FBI agent and I just caught a bad guy (him) robbing a bank. As the bad guy, he walked across the room away from me and put a fake gun to his head. I yelled, "FBI, drop the gun." He started yelling he was going to kill himself and walked toward me with the gun at his head. In less than the blink of an eye, as he got 10 feet away, he turned the gun on me, shot me, and said "You're dead." I had been ready to pull the trigger the moment he made a move. But I am now a dead FBI agent.

I am not arguing that all shootings are justified by any means. I'm just saying that those 25 citizens, who went through that training exercise, developed a lot more empathy for understanding how extremely tense those situations are- how life and death decisions have to be made in split seconds that will have ramifications for the rest of people's lives.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by mneumann02

There are a lot of questions concerning police shootings such as "Why didn't the police shoot to wound the person?" or "Why did they have to shoot him so many times?" I know I won't change anyone's mind with a simple post here, but my experience might help temper some views.

A few years ago, I was fortunate to be chosen for an FBI Citizen Training Course. There were 25 of us in the 10 week class. Participant citizens ranged from Black activists to far right conservatives. Subjects covered in the 4 1/2 hour weekly sessions included terrorism, white collar crime, kidnapping, violent crimes and "When and How to Use a Firearm."

The FBI trained us that if someone is life-threatening (to you or someone else) and you decide you to shoot, you shoot until the threat is ended. Only in Wild West movies does someone shoot to knock the gun out of the bad guy's hand or shoot to wound. To prove this important point, the FBI set up a very life-like full scale video on a wall with a very real looking and feeling fake gun that interacted with what was being shown. We each took turns as an FBI agent deciding if, when and whom to shoot. It was so real many of us were shaking during our turn as the video was played. Our first guy up shot the bad guy one time, and as the bad guy fell, he turned to us and smiled as he blew the imagined smoke from his gun barrel. Unfortunately for our "pretend" FBI agent, as the bad guy fell, he emptied his revolver into the back of the "agent."

At first the Black activist refused to role-play, but eventually did. He was shaking as he kept yelling, "FBI, drop the weapon!" When he finally decided to shoot, he not only emptied the gun's 8 round capacity, he reloaded and shot a couple more times. (They still talk about this in that FBI office.)

I asked a question. How do you know when to shoot? The FBI agent handed me the fake gun and said I was an FBI agent and I just caught a bad guy (him) robbing a bank. As the bad guy, he walked across the room away from me and put a fake gun to his head. I yelled, "FBI, drop the gun." He started yelling he was going to kill himself and walked toward me with the gun at his head. In less than the blink of an eye, as he got 10 feet away, he turned the gun on me, shot me, and said "You're dead." I had been ready to pull the trigger the moment he made a move. But I am now a dead FBI agent.

I am not arguing that all shootings are justified by any means. I'm just saying that those 25 citizens, who went through that training exercise, developed a lot more empathy for understanding how extremely tense those situations are- how life and death decisions have to be made in split seconds that will have ramifications for the rest of people's lives.

Had a similar experience.

Roanoke Va has a citizen police academy and took both the city and the county version.

One had us clear a room after a burglary. Bad guy got behind us and my partner saw him and turned around. The "bad guy" had a fake gun that was pointing at us.

Are the police supposed to wait to be shot? Sorry you shoot until the threat is neutralized.

The other had an electronic version where you are in a patrol car chasing a suspect. He stops gets out of his car. You do to and get behind him.

He turns around with a gun in his hand. Do you wait to get shot? I did and was shot.

One more point. Very difficult to shoot straight when you are in danger. Most police will not hit their target if more than 7 ft away. Adrenaline supposedly causes this.

This is also why elite military train constantly and shoot thousands of rounds a month.

Think of this when you ask why they do not shoot to wound their target.

[8notes]

Why don't police carry tasers? They are a weapon, can be used at a distance, like pepper spray, and are less lethal than guns. Through the end of September 2020, over 700 people have been shot and killed by police, an increasing trend.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by 8notes

Why don't police carry tasers? They are a weapon, can be used at a distance, like pepper spray, and are less lethal than guns. Through the end of September 2020, over 700 people have been shot and killed by police, an increasing trend.

Probably the same reason criminals don't carry tasers.

[Jima64]

maybe bad guys should not threaten civilians or police officers. tasers are also very unreliable as to affect on a person that is stoned or high on drugs, or wearing thick clothing.

[Funkman]

Originally Posted by 8notes

Why don't police carry tasers? They are a weapon, can be used at a distance, like pepper spray, and are less lethal than guns. Through the end of September 2020, over 700 people have been shot and killed by police, an increasing trend.

Many do carry tasers but tasers aren't always effective (lots of videos of people getting tased and it having no effect)

[kcrazorbackfan]

I was in two shootings as a State Trooper, the first as a sniper on a hijacking/hostage situation, the second on a stolen vehicle with an escapee whose car I did the pit maneuver on and he got out firing; this was immediately after he riddled the front of my cruiser with automatic weapon fire.

My point is, everyday I was going to do whatever it took to come home to my family every night. No LEO ever goes to work looking for a fire fight but it sometimes happens and they have to make the decision to end the threat that will keep them from going home.

[CWGUY]

Originally Posted by kcrazorbackfan

I was in two shootings as a State Trooper, the first as a sniper on a hijacking/hostage situation, the second on a stolen vehicle with an escapee whose car I did the pit maneuver on and he got out firing; this was immediately after he riddled the front of my cruiser with automatic weapon fire.

My point is, everyday I was going to do whatever it took to come home to my family every night. No LEO ever goes to work looking for a fire fight but it sometimes happens and they have to make the decision to end the threat that will keep them from going home.

OP wrote "Some Answers To Why Police Shootings Are The Way They Are" Thank you for the answer that counts...... so they can go home at the end of their shift.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by CWGUY

OP wrote "Some Answers To Why Police Shootings Are The Way They Are" Thank you for the answer that counts...... so they can go home at the end of their shift.

That is the best answer

[rjm1cc]

Originally Posted by 8notes

Why don't police carry tasers? They are a weapon, can be used at a distance, like pepper spray, and are less lethal than guns. Through the end of September 2020, over 700 people have been shot and killed by police, an increasing trend.

Tasers do not always stop a bad guy but I will agree if you can this should be the first line of defense if the other person is not holding a gun.

[rjm1cc]

I took a firearms training class from the local Schieffer. The subject of shooting to wound a person was discussed and examples shown. The basic rule if you have to draw your gun and fire you fire to kill. I think the professionals have to reevaluate this and maybe we have only one officer firing at first or maybe a qualified sniper shoot to wound any suspect that has a gun. The professionals who decide are those that have been in the situation.

[8notes]

Originally Posted by rjm1cc

Tasers do not always stop a bad guy but I will agree if you can this should be the first line of defense if the other person is not holding a gun.

I agree. The most recent shooting comes to mind, when the person with mental illness was wielding a kitchen knife. Wouldn't it be nice if that person had been able to come home to his family.

[Joe V.]

Originally Posted by rjm1cc

I took a firearms training class from the local Schieffer. The subject of shooting to wound a person was discussed and examples shown. The basic rule if you have to draw your gun and fire you fire to kill. I think the professionals have to reevaluate this and maybe we have only one officer firing at first or maybe a qualified sniper shoot to wound any suspect that has a gun. The professionals who decide are those that have been in the situation.

After a lifetime in law enforcement and the military the main preamble to firing at a deadly threat is shoot until the threat is neutralized. That means totally neutralized. BTW: Who decides in a nano second of reaction time which officer should shoot first?

[JGVillages]

Originally Posted by 8notes

Why don't police carry tasers? They are a weapon, can be used at a distance, like pepper spray, and are less lethal than guns. Through the end of September 2020, over 700 people have been shot and killed by police, an increasing trend.

Why don’t local governments stop defunding law enforcement, then possibly they can provide LEO’s with the non lethal alternatives.

[Stu from NYC]

Originally Posted by 8notes

I agree. The most recent shooting comes to mind, when the person with mental illness was wielding a kitchen knife. Wouldn't it be nice if that person had been able to come home to his family.

And the cost of that might have been the police officer does not get to come home to his or her family.