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retiredguy123 07-22-2018 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 (Post 1564962)
Looking more and more like someone who wants to play vigilante and should never have been given a concealed gun permit with that kind of mindset.

He was just exercising his freedom of speech and was the victim of a violent crime. If he didn't have a gun, he may be the dead one. Watch the video.

Marathon Man 07-22-2018 07:58 PM

OK. Let me respond to a couple of things that have been said. The shooter was 47 (not elderly), and has been known to approach people like this in the past. The pusher is clearly seen taking steps toward the shooter after he was on the ground (continued threat), backing up only after he saw the gun.

I gotta say, I am not a fan of either of these guys.

Not a fan of the woman driving either. There were other parking spots available.

Kerry Azz 07-22-2018 08:17 PM

Wrong
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by C4Boston (Post 1564781)
Bottom line, mind your own damn business.

A true Bostonian would NEVER say that!

Trayderjoe 07-22-2018 08:18 PM

The Stand Your Ground Law removes the requirement to try and escape from an attacker, if you have a right to be where you are at the time of the attack. The prosecutor does have the ability to charge someone with murder, regardless of Stand Your Ground, if the shooter fails to demonstrate that they met the requirements for self defense. Does anyone remember the original George Zimmerman case? The prosecutor charged him with murder, however he was found innocent at trial. (Note: the decision included a myriad of factors such as disparity of force)

Apparently the police, after completing an investigation, did not arrest the shooter in this case. Has the prosecutor decided not to file charges (I may have missed that)? The prosecutor determines if a case will be charged based upon the information collected by the police. Should there be a determination not to charge, and the case closed, under Florida law, the shooter would also be shielded from lawsuits by the deceased's family.

I watched the video, did not hear any audio, and I don't know what any witnesses reported in terms of a dialogue. Was the deceased threatening to kill the person on the ground? The deceased was standing close enough to the shooter that if he was threatening further violence, the shooter may have reasonably felt he was in mortal danger, since he was already attacked with the initial push. There was a study called the Tueller Drill which showed that a person with a knife could travel 21 feet in only 1.5 seconds and tap a target with the knife to simulate an attack. The deceased appeared to be much closer to the shooter at the time of the shooting, so don't let the distance between the two sway you when you watch the video.

Having a concealed carry permit is not a license to kill. A gun should only be drawn for the purposes of defending your life or the lives of your family. As another poster indicated, you don't pull a gun and try to shoot someone in the leg, arm or foot to disable them. When you pull a weapon it is because your life is in danger and you shoot for the middle of the torso (center mass). A person who does carry has an obligation to understand the law, and the ramifications they face. Merely displaying a gun during an altercation is a felony, unless you can demonstrate that you were in fear for your life. In order to claim self defense in a fatal shooting incident, you are admitting that you killed someone. You then have to show that you met all of the elements of self defense in order to either not be charged, or to have your case adjudicated in your favor. A person carrying a concealed weapon, without getting much more training, is in my opinion, foolish and a potential future inmate of a correctional facility.

Trayderjoe 07-22-2018 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marathon Man (Post 1565082)
OK. Let me respond to a couple of things that have been said. The shooter was 47 (not elderly), and has been known to approach people like this in the past. The pusher is clearly seen taking steps toward the shooter after he was on the ground (continued threat), backing up only after he saw the gun.

I gotta say, I am not a fan of either of these guys.

Not a fan of the woman driving either. There were other parking spots available.

Agreed!

kcrazorbackfan 07-22-2018 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazuela (Post 1564801)
1. The "pusher" backed up, physically, away from "ground guy" after shoving the guy.
2. Assuming the "ground guy" felt threatened (which would be understandable) there is still no reason to KILL the pusher. Ground guy was on the ground. Ground guy could've shot the pusher in the foot. Or leg. Or arm. Or hip, or shoulder. It was a big looking pusher, and they were close range. Not much chance to miss. Ground guy chose a death shot. Ground guy committed murder, not self-defense. Cops chose not to allow charges to be pressed.


There was no audio to hear what was being said by the "pusher" while coming toward the person or after the act of aggression, when he turned away. He could have been telling the lady in the car that he going to stomp the guy or kick him in the head. The pusher became an extreme aggressor when he pushed the guy to the ground and if the guy on the ground became fearful for his life, with that act or what he heard, it became a legal shoot.

When you are fearing for your life, and that heart is really pumping, you more likely to hit an innocent bystander if you shoot for a foot, leg, arm, hip or shoulder; you shoot for center mass to stop the threat.

retiredguy123 07-22-2018 08:57 PM

According to the sheriff, who did a very detailed press conference, no words were spoken between the pusher and the shooter. The shooter fired the shot within 4 seconds of being pushed, and he said that he thought the pusher was going to attack him again, and he feared for his life. That is why the sheriff did not arrest the shooter.

tomwed 07-22-2018 09:15 PM

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ColdNoMore 07-22-2018 09:29 PM

Based on the shooter's history, he's obviously been walking around looking for a fight, with the hope he could be a big man/hero one day...and use his gun.


He got away with murder...period.

Taltarzac725 07-22-2018 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore (Post 1565136)
Based on the shooter's history, he's obviously been walking around looking for a fight, with the hope he could be a big man/hero one day...and use his gun.


He got away with murder...period.

Not yet he has not. Still depends on what the prosecutor does. They should investigate some more before deciding. Interview the people involved and the like.

From the body language of the guy who died he did not look like he was getting ready to do any further damage to the guy on the ground.

retiredguy123 07-22-2018 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ColdNoMore (Post 1565136)
Based on the shooter's history, he's obviously been walking around looking for a fight, with the hope he could be a big man/hero one day...and use his gun.


He got away with murder...period.

This was not murder. He didn't make those people park illegally in a handicap space. He didn't make the pusher commit a violent crime by throwing him to the ground. All he did in this incident was to exercise his freedom of speech and defend himself from a violent attack. The dead man would be alive today if he had just obeyed the law and acted in a civilized and proper manner. Most good people would have never done what he did. He suffered the consequences for his antisocial and illegal behaviour.

billethkid 07-23-2018 06:02 AM

I would like to hear from a concealed weapons instructor or a personal self defense instructor what their assessment is based solely on FACTS available.

All the rest of us are merely presenting how we see it as affected by our demeanor/life style/belief/opinion/prejudice/et al.

Where is the emotional, special interests comments/rage regarding and unarmed person being shot and killed!!!!!

Marathon Man 07-23-2018 06:24 AM

This case will be debated for a long time, much like the Zimmerman case. Opinions will certainly vary. Here is how I look at it. Three people who are willing to do what most of us are not willing to do came together at the same time in the same place. This is the result. If any of the three had acted differently, a shooting would not have occurred.

Who is to blame? Who is responsible? Who did something wrong? Who was more wrong than the other? Should the law be changed? Well, that will be the debate.

zmarkp 07-23-2018 06:40 AM

I made up my mind as soon as I saw the video.

If charges are brought I will donate to the shooter's defense fund.

TNLAKEPANDA 07-23-2018 06:51 AM

If you carry a firearm you better know the laws and fully understand the consequences of shooting someone. If your life is threatened you have the right to protect yourself. Being pushed to the ground is a slippery slope.


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