[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Love2Swim

Exactly. This is a huge mess that has significant impacts on our society. Most of the students WANT to pay it off, and they are. But in the meantime, they are not buying new cars, they are not buying houses, they are not spending money that would benefit other portions of the economy. The people profiting are the banks and the for profit colleges. When I went to school, even a two year community college was about $350 per semester, plus an additional $100 or so for books. I worked summers and was able to finance it myself. Now this same school is $2200 per semester, $600 for books and supplies. And that is a state government sponsored school.

Private schools are another whole ball of wax. The school I went to is now $25000 per semester plus $8000 per semester housing/meals plus $1400 for books. That is per semester i.e. nearly $70,000 per year. If one is fortunate enough to get government student loans, there are provisions that tie repayment plans to income. In contrast, private loans are much more expensive, may not be able to be consolidated for repayment and may not have any options for lowering loan payments over the life of the loans. There may be prepayment fees. Forbes did a big article on Student loans and how the shift from greater public funding of higher education to individual financing has negative social and economic effects and are an enormous drag on nationwide economy. It ends up being a vicious cycle. Having students bear the risk means colleges can keep raising prices and push the costs onto the students, who then take out more loans, often from predatory lenders.

My point is, the system needs to be fixed. If our society values and requires college education for people to be successful and to contribute to said society, then we need to find a way for people to attend college with incurring hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt that will take 20 years or more to pay off.

The shrill cry of "how I did it" and the refusal to understand how the world is different today is the biggest drawback in so many areas where we can grow.

There appears to be no listening or entertaining anything new at all, as if the world has just stood still for so many years.

At the risk of being deleted, I am not going to post a link but suggest folks read about A. Wayne Johnson, who recently resigned as the overseer of student loans and his viewpoint on student loans. Read his new proposal just publicly stated a few weeks ago.

So quick to label folks who are trying to solve problems. If it a'int my idea it sucks. right ?

[graciegirl]

If it a'int my idea it sucks. right ?[/QUOTE]

With some people, no matter how reasonable and fair it is, they would oppose it. What is that called??

Contrarian.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

If it a'int my idea it sucks. right ?

With some people, no matter how reasonable and fair it is, they would oppose it. What is that called??

Contrarian.[/QUOTE]

When you do it with no reason given or supplied...and just call the "idea maker" names, it is ignorance

This thread has about 90% posts haring personal stories, with no recognition of facts supplied...defaultshave been going down steadily, the change in income that is available. As usual, it is, we are older...we did it correctly, nothing's changed, why can't you others do it how e did it. The implication in most posts is that they are the last of honest people, and if you read any news at all, you know that is not true.

[billethkid]

Originally Posted by Bucco

With some people, no matter how reasonable and fair it is, they would oppose it. What is that called??

Contrarian.

When you do it with no reason given or supplied...and just call the "idea maker" names, it is ignorance

This thread has about 90% posts haring personal stories, with no recognition of facts supplied...defaultshave been going down steadily, the change in income that is available. As usual, it is, we are older...we did it correctly, nothing's changed, why can't you others do it how e did it. The implication in most posts is that they are the last of honest people, and if you read any news at all, you know that is not true.[/QUOTE]

That is one observation!! Not the intent in raising the subject. However it is understandable when one needs to reinforce their view.

What is being over looked is the focus is on those who would default on their loans facilitated by an environment that is sympathetic to reasons why it cannot be done.

Citing experiences, yesteryear as well as current was/is intended to raise the issue of making it happen.

To each his own views or opinions without oblique minimization.

[dewilson58]

• Outstanding student loan debt reached an all-time high of $1.41 trillion in 2019.
• Soaring college costs are a big factor in student loan debt, with out-of-state tuition and fees averaging $26,290 per year for a four-year public university and $35,830 for a private college.
• The average student loan balance per borrower hit a record high in 2018: $35,359.
• Borrowers who don't complete their degree have a harder time paying off their loans.

The averages are not devastating. The extreme borrowers (who are the minority) are the problem.


11% of student loans are +90 days delinquent.



37% of people who took out student loans never finished college and earned a degree.


People who get more advanced degrees tend to accumulate more debt, but they are also likely to make payments on their student loans on time. These people knew what they were doing. It was not greedy bankers.

[C. C. Rider]

Originally Posted by Love2Swim

Its almost like an 18 year old is economically naive. Who would have thought...

As far as "free", it makes sense to have members of society educated enough so they can contribute more. In the long run, that pays for itself.

The flaw in your argument is precisely the problem that is being discussed in this thread. There are far too many poorly "educated" people in this country who are contributing little or nothing to society and as a consequence they can't pay back their loans and are (or soon will be) a burden to society rather than being a contributor. In the long run, the problem only gets worse, not better, unless some significant changes are made.

I agree that enabling students to get a better education in order to enable them to get a better job and pay more taxes and contribute more to society is the way it SHOULD work, but for a huge number of students, it's not working out that way and the taxpayer will be left holding the bag.

The student may have received poor advice or no advice in taking out loans, but ultimately the responsibility must be on the person who signed for the loans. No one forced them to take out these loans.

[retiredguy123]

Originally Posted by dewilson58

• Outstanding student loan debt reached an all-time high of $1.41 trillion in 2019.
• Soaring college costs are a big factor in student loan debt, with out-of-state tuition and fees averaging $26,290 per year for a four-year public university and $35,830 for a private college.
• The average student loan balance per borrower hit a record high in 2018: $35,359.
• Borrowers who don't complete their degree have a harder time paying off their loans.

The averages are not devastating. The extreme borrowers (who are the minority) are the problem.


11% of student loans are +90 days delinquent.



37% of people who took out student loans never finished college and earned a degree.


People who get more advanced degrees tend to accumulate more debt, but they are also likely to make payments on their student loans on time. These people knew what they were doing. It was not greedy bankers.

Just to demonstrate the magnitude of this issue, I did the math, based on your figures. 1.41 trillion divided by 35,359 equals about 40 million. So, we have 40 million people who went to school and now they each owe about $35,000 in student loans. That is about 12 percent of the entire U.S. population. But, about 15 million of those 40 million people never even got a college degree. I would question the real value of continuing the student loan program as it currently exists.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Student loans are under the oversight of the government. Due to change in cost of living and value of jobs, more graduates are finding themselves unable to cover the costs of their loans. More people working - sure. More people working and able to pay their bills? No. More people working, unable to pay their bills, and don't qualify for government handouts? No, but that's coming. Soon there will be millions of people who graduated from college who can't pay their bills, who are working, and need government help to stay nourished, housed, clothed, kept warm/cool (depending on climate where they live), and safe. We're already seeing this now, and there are kids who can't afford to live in a dorm or an apartment so they're living out of their cars while attending college. This is our generation's legacy to the generations who will some day run our country.

I hope they do better than we did.

[C. C. Rider]

If people can't be responsible enough to pay back their loans, then perhaps the student loan program should be stopped. The problem with that approach is that it punishes those who use the program wisely due to the actions of those who abuse the program. That would be like stopping the sale of all alcohol because a small percentage abuse it and end up hurting themselves, their family, and perhaps others too.

Once again, it's not the problem of the program, it's that some people don't use it wisely. There are ways of substantially reducing the amount of money a student needs to borrow.

Spending the first 2 years in a local community college would help for many. Staying in-state would help for many others. Working and going to school part time would help many others. Going into the military for a few years might pay for ALL of it.

The problem with choosing any of the above alternatives to help pay-as-you-go is that it often doesn't allow the student to party for 4+ years at the out of state school that is the coolest and do it all on borrowed money. The advantage to using one or more of the above alternatives is that you graduate with little or no debt.

I would hate to see the student loan program eliminated because it has provided a means of getting a college education to many students who otherwise would not have been able to afford it, but if people don't stop abusing it or using it unwisely, it just might be curtailed.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Student loans are under the oversight of the government. Due to change in cost of living and value of jobs, more graduates are finding themselves unable to cover the costs of their loans. More people working - sure. More people working and able to pay their bills? No. More people working, unable to pay their bills, and don't qualify for government handouts? No, but that's coming. Soon there will be millions of people who graduated from college who can't pay their bills, who are working, and need government help to stay nourished, housed, clothed, kept warm/cool (depending on climate where they live), and safe. We're already seeing this now, and there are kids who can't afford to live in a dorm or an apartment so they're living out of their cars while attending college. This is our generation's legacy to the generations who will some day run our country.

I hope they do better than we did.

That is a typical losers argument. Making excuses for things instead of taking responsibility. If a person can't afford to live in a dorm, then live in a car if that is what it takes to do what you need to do...or get a job along with college and find a really cheap place to live with a bunch of other kids like you. If a person can't afford to pay for something, don't commit to a loan for it. Many of us born in the forties could not afford a college education and our parents could not fund us either because they had just survived the great depression. Today in an unprecedented good economy and low unemployment, there is no reason for excuses. Not everyone is born with the ability to complete college but that doesn't mean that they cannot be financially successful, but it takes planning and saving and cutting back on spending for non essentials. I don't buy excuses from people who make poor decisions about their economic situation and let the chips fall where they may. It takes planning and sacrifice and hard work ...and doing without.

[manaboutown]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Student loans are under the oversight of the government. Due to change in cost of living and value of jobs, more graduates are finding themselves unable to cover the costs of their loans. More people working - sure. More people working and able to pay their bills? No. More people working, unable to pay their bills, and don't qualify for government handouts? No, but that's coming. Soon there will be millions of people who graduated from college who can't pay their bills, who are working, and need government help to stay nourished, housed, clothed, kept warm/cool (depending on climate where they live), and safe. We're already seeing this now, and there are kids who can't afford to live in a dorm or an apartment so they're living out of their cars while attending college. This is our generation's legacy to the generations who will some day run our country.

I hope they do better than we did.

The basic problem is some people go through life making an unending stream of poor choices and bleeding hearts expect the hard working, productive folks who reasoned out their choices, planned, applied themselves, sacrificed and succeeded to financially carry the no-goods.

Now if a terrible accident, other tragedy, serious illness or the like takes one out then I feel the government should help them out.

But if a young person wastes his/her time in college, partying too much, taking underwater basketweaving instead of serious coursework that will lead to good employment opportunities on borrowed money, they should be required to pay the loans back, not the taxpayers.

[Rapscallion St Croix]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

Student loans are under the oversight of the government. Due to change in cost of living and value of jobs, more graduates are finding themselves unable to cover the costs of their loans. More people working - sure. More people working and able to pay their bills? No. More people working, unable to pay their bills, and don't qualify for government handouts? No, but that's coming. Soon there will be millions of people who graduated from college who can't pay their bills, who are working, and need government help to stay nourished, housed, clothed, kept warm/cool (depending on climate where they live), and safe. We're already seeing this now, and there are kids who can't afford to live in a dorm or an apartment so they're living out of their cars while attending college. This is our generation's legacy to the generations who will some day run our country.

I hope they do better than we did.

Perhaps all they need to do is learn to budget and calibrate their moral compass. I consider the following as analogous to folks owing money to loan providers. As a former landlord, I know that people can seem to find money to pay cable bills, cell phone bills, buy cigarettes, feed their animals, get tattoos, make payments on their motorcycles, eat mostly fast food, etc before paying their back rent because eviction takes a long time.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Rapscallion St Croix

Perhaps all they need to do is learn to budget and calibrate their moral compass. I consider the following as analogous to folks owing money to loan providers. As a former landlord, I know that people can seem to find money to pay cable bills, cell phone bills, buy cigarettes, feed their animals, get tattoos, make payments on their motorcycles, eat mostly fast food, etc before paying their back rent because eviction takes a long time.

These are 18-year-old kids, who have lived at home all their lives. Who has failed to teach them how to budget and calibrate their moral compass? Who failed to teach their parents that this was a responsibility they had to accept when they chose to have children?

It's so easy to blame the ills of society on the current generation of graduates. Not so easy to do some actual fact-checking to learn what it takes to get a college-required career these days though, and how long it takes for that career to pay off enough for the student to start reducing their debt.

Some people have done the actual fact-checking though. it's not a matter of "just need to" anything. There is not "just" or "simply" or "merely" here. It's a complicated mess created by a complicated system overseen by a complicated government.

[Ben Franklin]

Originally Posted by Ben Franklin View Post
Since 2004, "National Flood Insurance Program has borrowed $39.4 billion from taxpayers. It has repaid just $2.82 billion of that principle. In a report last September, the Congressional Budget Office projected that, as currently structured, the program should be expected to lose $1.4 billion on an annual basis." Yes, everyone should pay off the loans they took out, but in this case, those who don't need flood insurance, will also have to help pay off the loan. Shouldn't those who have federal flood insurance be the ones responsible for paying off the loan? Socialism?

Originally Posted by Aces4

Why not provide the same handout proposed to those of with a college degree to include their peers. Why would we gift one segment of society? Those who provide some of the most essential services to society without a college degree and work tirelessly for smaller wages need to be rewarded too. Where does it stop?

Don't know what that has to do with my post, which was, basically, why only pick on kids having to pay back their college loans, when no one is lambasting those who move to areas where federal flood insurance is needed; where those people, who have needed to make a claim have forced the government to take out a loan, that isn't being paid back on time, and which will probably end up requiring all of us to pay for the loan. But maybe that's a question for a new string.

[Rapscallion St Croix]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

These are 18-year-old kids, who have lived at home all their lives. Who has failed to teach them how to budget and calibrate their moral compass? Who failed to teach their parents that this was a responsibility they had to accept when they chose to have children?

It's so easy to blame the ills of society on the current generation of graduates. Not so easy to do some actual fact-checking to learn what it takes to get a college-required career these days though, and how long it takes for that career to pay off enough for the student to start reducing their debt.

Some people have done the actual fact-checking though. it's not a matter of "just need to" anything. There is not "just" or "simply" or "merely" here. It's a complicated mess created by a complicated system overseen by a complicated government.

Fact checking? Most of the student loan debt is owed by folks who are 30 to 60 years old.