[sunnyatlast]

Originally Posted by tomwed

Don't you want more people making more money to pay off the debt? How can you make more money without a high paying job? How can you get a high paying job without skills?…….

I meant that "SShhhhhhhh…" sarcastically.

I think we should be looking at the existing state tuition assistance programs and making them more known to high-school students, especially in the vocational and trades classes that most kids are not even encouraged to look at.

Our kids are recent college graduates and they and most of their peers were told nothing about vocational/trades curriculum and the fact that some of the coursework can be taken while doing college prep curriculum in high school.

Of course, we wanted our kids to become working taxpayers! We started saving for college the month our first child was born. They didn't qualify for financial aid and we gladly paid their tuition, room and board…..AND they worked summers and holidays all the way thru college. They are on their own with their careers because they are independent-minded and have a work ethic that says "I can do it myself!". That didn't come by accident. We worked on it every single day, reminding ourselves that kids tune in more on what you do than what you say.

As someone said above, it's the kids in the middle income brackets with working parents who need assistance the most. Adding to their parents' "tax liability" and knowing the spending and tax-legislating appetites of legislators, these families will be hurt, not helped by more federal "help" being touted.

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by sunnyatlast

I meant that "SShhhhhhhh…" sarcastically.

I think we should be looking at the existing state tuition assistance programs and making them more known to high-school students, especially in the vocational and trades classes that most kids are not even encouraged to look at.

Our kids are recent college graduates and they and most of their peers were told nothing about vocational/trades curriculum and the fact that some of the coursework can be taken while doing college prep curriculum in high school.

We started saving for college the month our first child was born. They didn't qualify for financial aid and we gladly paid their tuition, room and board…..AND they worked summers and holidays all the way thru college. They are on their own with their careers because they are independent-minded and have a work ethic that says "I can do it myself!". That didn't come by accident. We worked on it every single day, reminding ourselves that kids tune in more on what you do than what you say.

As someone said above, it's the kids in the middle income brackets with working parents who need assistance the most. Adding to their parents' "tax liability" and knowing the spending and tax-legislating appetites of legislators, these families will be hurt, not helped by more federal "help" being touted.

I'm sorry. I'm not good at picking up sarcasm on-line.
Are you saying that middle class families taxes will go up more then college tuition would cost their children?
Can you back that up?

[memason]

How is it that a country, like Germany can fully fund every student for either university or trade school education and we can't do it in this country.

Germany has the strongest economy in Europe and a huge exporter of manufactured goods of high quality. Taxes for workers are higher than in the US, to be sure, but there a lot more of them.

I worked in a manufacturing subsidiary of my company, in Germany and they had the highest skilled workforce I have ever seen. Every single employee was either a university graduate or tech school grad. ...and I do mean EVERY employee, right down to janitorial.

By the way, every one of those employees had free healthcare too...

I'm just astonished they can figure this out and we can't....

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by memason

How is it that a country, like Germany can fully fund every student for either university or trade school education and we can't do it in this country.

Germany has the strongest economy in Europe and a huge exporter of manufactured goods of high quality. Taxes for workers are higher than in the US, to be sure, but there a lot more of them.

I worked in a manufacturing subsidiary of my company, in Germany and they had the highest skilled workforce I have ever seen. Every single employee was either a university graduate or tech school grad. ...and I do mean EVERY employee, right down to janitorial.

By the way, every one of those employees had free healthcare too...

I'm just astonished they can figure this out and we can't....

For one thing, Germany and the other European countries have not had to bear the full cost of their defense. We have borne the brunt of much of the cost since the end of World War II. Let's also not forget that we bore the cost of rebuilding Germany after WWII.

Don't get me wrong I'm not complaining and there is little I would change if I could. However I think it is only fair to note their ability to pay for other things. As an aside, several times over my career, I hosted German officials who felt their healthcare system was in a poor state and wanted to learn more about ours.

[sunnyatlast]

Originally Posted by tomwed

I'm sorry. I'm not good at picking up sarcasm on-line.
Are you saying that middle class families taxes will go up more then college tuition would cost their children?
Can you back that up?

No. I'm saying that middle class families' taxes are already too big of a burden because of all the other existing programs that are already in place in the states and federally, and because of their taxes going toward financing the lower-income students/families' education and increasing medical insurance costs before their own! It leaves little to put toward their own kids' college savings/costs while repaying the parents' own student loans and trying to pay for the family's higher medical insurance premiums and deductibles.

I like the sound of the president's proposal to give community college tuition "free", but knowing how Washington "manages" money, it's their "management results" that I worry about.

I don't know about what you're seeing, but I don't see middle-class tax burdens going down. And then there is inflation that is going to have to be unleashed at some point because of the elephant in the room: $18 trillion in national debt.

Again, I think we need to work on bolstering and making known the existing state college assistance programs, along with serious career-counseling all the way thru high school, about which most 20-somethings would ask "what's that"?

See: http://fortune.com/2012/11/20/why-co...unity-college/

..

[Wandatime]

Originally Posted by memason

How is it that a country, like Germany can fully fund every student for either university or trade school education and we can't do it in this country.

Germany has the strongest economy in Europe and a huge exporter of manufactured goods of high quality. Taxes for workers are higher than in the US, to be sure, but there a lot more of them.

I worked in a manufacturing subsidiary of my company, in Germany and they had the highest skilled workforce I have ever seen. Every single employee was either a university graduate or tech school grad. ...and I do mean EVERY employee, right down to janitorial.

By the way, every one of those employees had free healthcare too...

I'm just astonished they can figure this out and we can't....

Actually, it isn't that we haven't figured it out. There are just a lot of us that don't want to invest money in the future of our country. If someone is uneducated, mentally ill, or physically sick and can't pay for it . . . too bad for them. We made our money and we're keeping it, and to hell with everyone else. A rising tide lifts all boats? Not on our watch.

Here's where the happiest people live and what they are doing differently from us:

http://unsdsn.org/wp-content/uploads...013_online.pdf

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by tomwed

How much was your tuition? Mine was $350 a year. I'm guessing all my college living expenses came out to $2,500 a year and my first year teaching my contract was $10,400.
How does that compare to today's tuition and today's first year teaching contracts? It's not even close. But you are a smart person and you know all that.

Sure they need skin in the game. Free tuition does not mean every college expense and living expense is free. You know that too, you raised kids.

My grad school was $450 per credit hour. My son's tuition et al at Emory was $40,000 per year back in the 90's. I paid for my and my kids education 100%. No debt involved. I was blessed to be able to afford it. Couldn't do it now!

[B767drvr]

Originally Posted by Wandatime

Actually, it isn't that we haven't figured it out. There are just a lot of us that don't want to invest money in the future of our country. If someone is uneducated, mentally ill, or physically sick and can't pay for it . . . too bad for them. We made our money and we're keeping it, and to hell with everyone else. A rising tide lifts all boats? Not on our watch.

This is one of those "just WOW" posts. Wanda, our nation is technically bankrupt. We are $18 TRILLION in Debt, have over $100 TRILLION in unfunded liabilities (bills without the money to pay them) and we currently borrow 44 cents out of every federal dollar spent. Please help me understand your post above where the US taxpayer has been unwilling to "invest" money in the future of our country.

To me, it sure sounds like we've gone crazy with the national credit card "investing in the future of our country". Please help me understand your position.

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by dbussone

My grad school was $450 per credit hour. My son's tuition et al at Emory was $40,000 per year back in the 90's. I paid for my and my kids education 100%. No debt involved. I was blessed to be able to afford it. Couldn't do it now!

What year and what grad school was $450 per credit hour? I went to school from 1970 to 1975.
Tuition History
What was tuition at Emory University five, ten, fifteen or twenty years ago? Hop into our time machine and take a look. Pay attention to how aggressive the school has been with price increases the past as it provides indication as to how the school may raise tuition in the next few years if you enrolled. Historical tuition and fees for all available data years back to 1988 follows.

Year Tuition Annual Increase
2010 $38,036 4.7%
2009 $36,336 5.8%
2008 $34,336 5.6%
2007 $32,506 5.6%
2006 $30,794 5%
2005 $29,322 4.9%
2004 $27,952 3.8%
2003 $26,932 5.4%
2002 $25,552 4.2%
2001 $24,532 6.1%
2000 $23,130 5.8%
1999 $21,870 3.6%
1998 $21,110 6.2%
1997 $19,870 4.6%
1996 $19,000 6.6%
1995 $17,830 6%
1994 $16,820 7.8%
1993 $15,600 7%
1992 $14,580 6.4%
1991 $13,700 10.4%
1990 $12,410 10.7%
1989 $11,210 10%
1988 $10,190 8.8%
1987 $9,370

You are a good dad. I couldn't afford Emory for my kids. I think the goal is that kids start out in a junior college and the best of the best end up at Emory. They may need to borrow 2 years of tuition but that's half of what they would have needed. These kids, our grandchildren may have the same kind of opportunity us boomers had. Doesn't that make you feel good?

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by tomwed

What year and what grad school was $450 per credit hour? I went to school from 1970 to 1975.
Tuition History
What was tuition at Emory University five, ten, fifteen or twenty years ago? Hop into our time machine and take a look. Pay attention to how aggressive the school has been with price increases the past as it provides indication as to how the school may raise tuition in the next few years if you enrolled. Historical tuition and fees for all available data years back to 1988 follows.

YearTuitionAnnual Increase
2010$38,0364.7%
2009$36,3365.8%
2008$34,3365.6%
2007$32,5065.6%
2006$30,7945%
2005$29,3224.9%
2004$27,9523.8%
2003$26,9325.4%
2002$25,5524.2%
2001$24,5326.1%
2000$23,1305.8%
1999$21,8703.6%
1998$21,1106.2%
1997$19,8704.6%
1996$19,0006.6%
1995$17,8306%
1994$16,8207.8%
1993$15,6007%
1992$14,5806.4%
1991$13,70010.4%
1990$12,41010.7%
1989$11,21010%
1988$10,1908.8%
1987$9,370

You are a good dad. I couldn't afford Emory for my kids.

Grad = Boston University Graduate School of Management. 1975 - 1978
Emory = 1994 - 1997 remember I said tuition et al. Et al covers board & room, books etc.

My daughter went to Ole Miss on 50% scholarship. That helped.

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by dbussone

Grad = Boston University Graduate School of Management. 1975 - 1978
Emory = 1994 - 1997 remember I said tuition et al. Et al covers board & room, books etc.

My daughter went to Ole Miss on 50% scholarship. That helped.

I guess I got lucky at Glassboro State College from 1970 to 1975 because while you were paying $450 a credit for a graduate degree, I was paying $5 a credit for an undergraduate degree.
I want it to be as easy for my grandchildren to get ahead as it was for me. This sounds like a plan that might work.

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by tomwed

I guess I got lucky at Glassboro State College from 1970 to 1975 because while you were paying $450 a credit for a graduate degree, I was paying $5 a credit for an undergraduate degree.
I want it to be as easy for my grandchildren to get ahead as it was for me. This sounds like a plan that might work.

I agree. I'd like it to be easy for my grandchildren as well. But I'd also like our kids to do as well as we have, avoiding wealth redistribution, so their kids have a choice

[tomwed]

Originally Posted by dbussone

I agree. I'd like it to be easy for my grandchildren as well. But I'd also like our kids to do as well as we have, avoiding wealth redistribution, so their kids have a choice

Can you explain wealth distribution to me?

[dbussone]

Originally Posted by tomwed

Can you explain wealth distribution to me?

Should be redistribution. It comes from increased taxes that produce revenue which the government then uses to create programs that dole it out to whomever the government believes is underserved in some sense. An example - some states print materials in 10+ languages in order remain PC and not require English as our primary language. This particular example is rampant throughout many areas of government

[Rags123]

Originally Posted by Wandatime

Actually, it isn't that we haven't figured it out. There are just a lot of us that don't want to invest money in the future of our country. If someone is uneducated, mentally ill, or physically sick and can't pay for it . . . too bad for them. We made our money and we're keeping it, and to hell with everyone else. A rising tide lifts all boats? Not on our watch.

Here's where the happiest people live and what they are doing differently from us:

http://unsdsn.org/wp-content/uploads...013_online.pdf

I did notice on the attached link that Germany, who pays for tuition is a bit lower in the happy rankings than the USA.

There are VAST differences in countries. Someone mentioned about our military, which has become the world policeman. We spend, and these are estimates about twice as much or more on defense. We pay less taxes than in Germany. The cost of an education is mucho less than in the United States. I think that in Germany, you must choose a major NEVER to be changed.

It is just a different experience in going to college in Germany, and believe it or not, not that high of a percentage go to college. The entire college experience is so much different than in the USA.

Instead of going right to FREE, we should just make it easier and cheaper. Remember the Tenn program began with private funds being used in certain counties and has now become a proposal for the state. It also covers ONLY tuition, not books, not housing, etc.

Just wonderings as I think about this. To make it seem as if the USA is doing something so underhanded I reject. We are so far in debt in this country right now, the financial future is so bleak. If we want to do a favor for young people, get the spending in hand so there is something for them to even have.

Maybe, if they ever talk to each other about tax structure, we can incorporate something in that but nobody wants to talk about that. We do have limits in this country