Someone asked about the Greatest Generation also being the Greediest.

"The Greatest Generation" is a term coined by journalist Tom Brokaw to describe the generation[1] who grew up in the United States during the deprivation of the Great Depression, and then went on to fight in World War II, as well as those whose productivity within the war's home front made a decisive material contribution to the war effort, for which the generation is also termed the G.I. Generation.

The Boomers were nicknamed the Greediest Generation.

Boomers had low tuition educations, higher paying jobs, and houses were more affordable. The American Dream was easily attainable for me and my friends; especially if our wives worked too.

Free tuition seems to be working in Germany and they have a balanced budget click here

I guess I was looking for some college plan that would give the jobskills needed today for high paying jobs and maybe recreate life as it was when I was young. It doesn't seem as hopeful for young people. Does it?

Social security and medicare are the biggest drivers of the federal budget. Social security became law in 1935 (boomers definitely not to blame - weren't even born yet.) Medicare became law in 1966 (boomers were children - not the politicians that voted for it.)

When you and I (a few years younger) were young, it was not a "college plan" of financing that prepared people to be skilled entrants to a well-paid job and career. It was upbringing at home and school that taught us to:

-work, earn and save for what we wanted to buy;

-"obey" authorities, like teachers, policemen and employers;

-do your chores and homework on time;

-expect to hear at home: "If you get into trouble at school, you're in trouble at home, too. We're not going in there to run interference for you, and do not blame the teacher. Own up to it and take your punishment and learn from it."

- "Live within your means"

- Show up on time every time, and don't punch out from work until after quitting time.

- The customer is always right.

- This is how you make change when the cash register isn't working to tell you the exact amount in change.

- If you don't know the answer, admit you don't know and say "But I'll try to find out".

AND:

- "Pot makes you stupid."

It probably sounds simplistic, but those are the lessons missing from the upbringing of people I know who did not take advantage of those cheaper college options we had, and now they moan about "The system is rigged" and it's somebody else's fault, not their own.

We share the same values. My children do to.

If the question is how do you prepare kids for high paying jobs then a reasonable answer is to provide them with a free education. Their higher salaries will be taxed and they will also contribute to Social Security. The problem is how do you tie that to their first 12 years of schooling so they are moving towards that goal and not looking at a life working for minimal wages.

I don't know what the answer is but I'm trying to find out.

AND how or who pays for that "free" education. All nice words and so pretty, but how do we pay for it ?

I don't think it's "reasonable" at all. Why force your neighbors to pay for your children's education? You brought those children into the world, you pay for them, including their education.

Many couples have chosen to not reproduce. Why confiscate their wealth to pay for your choices? :shrug:


Seems to me, if we're going to give free education to people, there are more pressing priorities than education. Shouldn't we first give free food to everyone? Then shelter? Then perhaps free medical care? How about transportation to and from college? If kids can't get to class, the free education really isn't of any value. If their tummies are growling and they can't concentrate, then that free education isn't very helpful.

Why does that education need to be free? It really is available to anyone smart enough that is willing to work hard and stick their future necks out and obtain student loans. And the less fortunate you are the more money is available to you - but, it probably won't be handed to you a silver platter. You have to work hard in high school than advocate for yourself to obtain the grants, scholarships, and loans available.

Your last sentence could apply to so many things !

"Why confiscate their wealth to pay for your choices?"


Good or bad choices both !

EXACTLY! Minimalist government! Fire, police, armed forces and the minimum to regulate society. Time to slash the budget!!

If you Google the Greediest generation the results will point to the Boomers and not the parents of the Boomers who are called the Greatest Generation as someone else suggested earlier.

Maybe wording the sentence that way makes the point I was trying to make.

[QUOTE=B767drvr;995010]I don't think it's "reasonable" at all. Why force your neighbors to pay for your children's education? You brought those children into the world, you pay for them, including their education.

Many couples have chosen to not reproduce. Why confiscate their wealth to pay for your choices? QUOTE]

Have you looked at your tax bill? You ARE paying a fair amount for school tax. No one in The Villages has school aged children yet that is part of our property tax bill.

There are only a tiny handful of states that give seniors a break on school tax.

No state gives a break on school taxes to childless people who are not seniors.

Progressive countries provide for their children and we should do more in the USA for our future generations.

[quote=Sandtrap328;995075]i could debate a long time on your example of school taxes but that is not the issue.

Check please...please check...those "progressive" countries you speak of.....do not have our military budget (If you can convince them to meet our load in policing the world, then that would be great).....those "progressive" countries pay so much more than us in taxes.....those "progressive" countries of which you speak do not, not even close, have the cost of education that the USA does....those "progressive" countries of which you speak do not even come close to spending the money we do in a stiuation of global disaster..... we are a bit different and if you are to compare, please...please...check and allow that comparison for debate !!!

Your words and those of those who propose this, are rosy, sweet sounding and that is it......."Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive."
William F. Buckley, Jr.

It would be wonderful if we could afford all these nice sounding idealistic ideas BUT WE CANNOT. We seem to always forget that with each thing we desire to have and purchase that sounds good....there always comes a bill.

We keep comparing ourselves to those "progressive" countries without really comparing them.

PS...One thing you are correct about......"we should do more in the USA for our future generations" and I think a great start would be allowing them not to be hamstrung with our foolish spending.

I like this part of your post, in particular.

When we, the current citizens of this nation, saddle future generations with the obligation to pay off $18+ TRILLION of debt (debt that WE accumulated, not them!) then it's quite obvious we've exchanged their future for our current.

Many of us oppose this HUGE increase in debt for this very reason. Unfortunately, a majority of the electorate wants the "good times" to keep rolling (as long as they don't have to pick up the tab!) Eventually the hangover wears off and these same people begin questioning why it's so hard for their kids to get ahead. :icon_bored:

A balanced budget amendment seems obvious, but as a nation we can't even agree on a timeline to stop borrowing money. 10 years from now? 20 years from now? When does the insanity stop? :shrug:

Does anyone who is proposing this free education remember this...

"National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform (often called Bowles-Simpson/Simpson-Bowles from the names of co-chairs Alan Simpson and Erskine Bowles; or NCFRR) is a Presidential Commission created in 2010 by President Barack Obama to identify "policies to improve the fiscal situation in the medium term and to achieve fiscal sustainability over the long run".

National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This became so political but was simply discarded because it was a tough pill to swallow. It laid it out and nobody liked what they heard, yet you still hear those who worry about our future refer to it.

I mention it because it seems we are once again on the trail of spending to accomodate something, although I am not sure what that is......we have lots of work to do. For example...

"One of the most encouraging aspects of the U.S. economic recovery is the halo effect on manufacturing, which accounts for 1 in 6 private-sector jobs. Yet a new study is dismissing that renaissance as little more than a "myth."

New study paints bleak picture of manufacturing rebound

We better turn our eyes and ears to our economy and our spending on the internal issues.

This report by the way....from Information Technology and Innovation Foundation

More than one in five US workers is employed in just 10 occupations, a new report from the US government shows.

Retail salespersons, 4.48 million workers earning $25,370
Cashiers 3.34 million workers earning $20,420
Food prep and serving staff, 3.02 million workers earning $18,880
General office clerk, 2.83 million working earning $29,990
Registered nurses, 2.66 million workers earning $68,910
Waiters and waitresses, 2.40 million workers earning $20,880
Customer service representatives, 2.39 million workers earning $33,370
Laborers, and freight and material movers, 2.28 million workers earning $26,690
Secretaries and admins (not legal or medical), 2.16 million workers earning $34,000
Janitors and cleaners (not maids), 2.10 million workers earning, $25,140

I'm trying to find out most Americans do for a living.
What jobs need people.
What education people need for the job.
Do you want to help?

It should be left up to the States and not the Feds!!!!!

PARENTS, and ideally two parents, are the ones who responsible for seeing that "their first 12 years of schooling is tied to …moving towards that goal" of making higher salaries to be higher income earners who will pay more into the taxes needed for SS, medicare, and all the other programs.

It takes parents to bring them up with a work ethic and long-term goals. But many kids are raising themselves with no adult supervision and they do not have a decent/safe home life to go home to.

THAT is the problem and nobody in the higher levels of leadership talks about it (except some church leaders, but they are vilified and scorned by the leftist "intellectual" crowd, for teaching against simply aborting them to solve some of these problems!).

Intact family units having dedicated, tuned in and loving parents are what kids need to be focused on a future other than minimum wage, fast food jobs or having no job.

I would rather pay for their education then have to pay to support them for the rest of my life.

Why should you pay for EITHER?

That's what I was thinking. I did a good job for everyone raising my sons or maybe it's all their doing. They are around 30 yrs old making 6 figures and paying all kinds of taxes.

Some of your arguments in this thread can be applied to Social security and Medicare. I get it, you paid in. But the people YOU elected wasted it or misappropriated it. Most have taken out WAY more than they ever paid in. Why should I now have to pay for that, let alone my children and their children? You should have planned better, watched our Nation's resources and been better stewards.

I'm sorry, but that is just as silly as some of the arguments on not funding education. Who do you think will be paying for YOUR bankrupt Social Security system? Yes, those same kids you don't want to spend to get educated so they can get jobs that haven't even been invented yet. It is an INVESTMENT. Very few things we pay for with our tax dollars can generate a return. Education is one of them.

there are already plenty of programs to pay for education...this is simply a political stunt.

I have offered no "silly arguments" as you say. I simply say that this country can not afford to do this. There are other more compelling and P.......l reasons, along with the long argument concerning your comparing social security to this situation, but this country does not have the money.

Hate to be crass, but others have said it....this proposal is simply another of the stunts we should be used to by now.

One reason tuition has outpaced inflation is the federal and state programs that have subsidized financing for tuition. It is simply supply and demand. The "cheaper" the cost to attend college, the more people will attend. We now have $1 trillion in student debt, many of those students have virtually unmarketable degrees (but hey, they are college graduates), and the professors, administrators, and staff, are laughing all the way to the bank.

I am sorry....I did not think of this while responding above and really am not sure of my facts on this....but

Does not a Pell Grant cover most of tuition presently ?

I understand that this is for low income or based on need, but is that not the audience we search for ?

If I am wrong, please correct me......but wonder if people who need it are knocking down the doors for Pell Grants ?

Because they are not motivated or smart enough to do so - so lets give it to them for free!

We can't afford Social Security either but I don't see anyone clamoring to end it. That would save billions if not trillions. We are paying people to NOT work (SS) but you are opposed to paying for an education for people to work.
Look, I agree we are tremendously in debt but no one will face the real issues.
I've never met a REAL fiscal conservative(which I am) on Social Security. The biggest difference is in each of our opinions of the expenditure. I see it as a long term investment in an educated population. You see it as a drain on on an already over-burdened system.
So are you saying...If....I repeat If we could afford it you would still oppose it?

You have to be at the very LOWEST end of the financial spectrum to get a Pell grant. As a teacher in Florida and spouse working in customer service, none of our kids qualified.

If you are my age, 62, ask yourself if life was life easier for you then if you were 18 today?
If we had it better then we need to thank those before us.
If you are 18 and being successful is not as easy then they need to blame us.

I would be very happy to find out that my generation looked out for their kids.

Show me that proof and I will buy you a beer and we can celebrate that we looked out for the next generation too.

Tell me your success story.

Your post leaves me a bit confused.

Other than being something paid out of the US Treasury, I see no similarities between Social Security and this proposal (which seems to surface each January).

I also have no idea what a "REAL fiscal conservative(which I am) on Social Security. " The Social Security problem has existed for many years...MANY years and is nothing new. It needs to be addressed, on that I agree totally, but seems it always gets buried in the p.....al aspect (recall the proposal a number of years ago to privatize it..which I do not agree with...but it was laughed at and we were told loud and clear...there is no problem...see this link as one...Democrats Deny Social Security’s Red Ink)

But we are digressing....same point could be made on any spending we do as opposed to offering new programs that just are not necessary or affordable at this time. I simply responded more on Social Security because for some reason that seems to irk you.

You ended with this question..."So are you saying...If....I repeat If we could afford it you would still oppose it?" That is very confusing at the least. What do you mean by that question.....trying to stay a bit lucid, I will simply say if we could afford it then we might spend time discussing the idea and doing it correctly, but we cannot, thus it becomes a dead issue.

I actually suggest that we have a great discussion on social security as that seems to get you riled. I actually spoke to that a bit in post #33 on this thread because we do need reform in social security. I also in this same thread spoke briefly to the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform in post #590. If you recall, that was the commission whose results we simply ignored and still do.

And finally a quote I used seems to apply here...

"Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive."
William F. Buckley, Jr.

Bottom line, we agree that we need work on Social Security and I am hoping that very soon we can get all sides to discuss the future of all entitlement programs so that maybe some day some of that idealism can be used. We need tax reform as well...all of this should come before consideration of a bill like this free tuition. Again, I still think we better address leaving our kids and grandkids with a nation that is not broke...that, to me seems the most important and we are working in the other direction.

Also in this thread (forgive me for not pasting the entire thing and obviously obviously you have not read all of it OR you just flat out do not agree, but the economy is not coming back as we are being told and THAT needs work well before any of these annual hopes.

This link will get you to the study which shows our supposed manufacturing rebound is not as robust as we thought.

New study paints bleak picture of manufacturing rebound

Would love to hear exactly what a fiscal conserative is on Social Security...I understand the term but hearing it applied to ONLY Social Security makes me ask.

And I hope I responded to your question...it was worded kind of odd and I took my best shot. My problem was that you made an assumption for me that was not even implied, ie. opposing this bill if we could afford it. Not sure how you arrived at that on my behalf

BIG PS....notice the heading of this thread. It is about one state, and would it not be novel for states that can afford it, and need it to propose it on a state level ? Imagine....why is everything federal ?

Leaving the young people deep in debt is just about the worst thing I can think that you would do. I suspect that future generations facing longer life span, higher medical costs (have you notice how the cost are going up and wait until next year), and no way out will not miss the chance to go to school for nothing.

The Pell grants are great...they are not used. Why not suggest changing the wage requirements for Pell ? But see THAT plan is not as pol.....y tasty as this proposal. This is purely a stunt...there are so many things that can be done without this proposal BUT that would require working with congress and not being able to try another grandstand act.

Sorry if this is offensive but this comes up every January and as you look back on your life, do you recall when this was handled NOT IN THE PRESS until after it was hashed and debated in congress ? Remember those days ?

Someone asked up thread about Pell Grants. These are awarded strictly by income and the most you can get for 2014-2015 year is $5730

2014-2015 Pell Grant Amount - Student Loans and Paying for College Blog

If you are my age, 62, ask yourself if life was life easier for you then if you were 18 today?



Was it?

I am 75 years old and I do not understand what your question has to do with anything, especially this thread. But, to answer, in some ways it was better and in some ways it was worse.

The bottom line is we have Pell grants available and other programs to pay for those that want to go to college, and most importantly no matter what, this country cannot afford it.

It is easier in some ways today and it is more difficult in others and it will be that way forever I suspect. Parents need to help their kids learn the path and get them on that path. If you want to get all philosophical on this, the breakdown of the family leads the way in negatives, not lack of college and frankly I am still working on the fact that NOBODY is knocking down the doors for using Pells...still have a bit more to check on.

If a state can afford it, then offer it....federal government does not need, nor should get involved.

To fill in the blanks for you, both my wife and I were children of steelworkers. We both attended college (I spent 6 years in the Navy as well) we both paid for out own college as our parents certainly could not afford it. We both worked in college in the dining hall to earn money. Seems rough then but looking back it was a a nice ride.

For "continuing education" on the subject, I offer this link to an editorial. It is well written and I hope many read it, ESPECIALLY the first few paragraphs which, I think logically explain possible outcomes of the plan. I will not quote from it but hope some read it.

McArdle: Obama's college plan empowers the same old elites | The Salt Lake Tribune

What is social conservative about advocating "free" education for everyone? Life is much easier today than when I was young. My father worked two jobs and my mother worked fulltime, also. I worked every summer going through school. Paid for college. Try and get a young person to mow your yard, or spread dirt, or wash windows during summer break. fugitaboudit.

Boy, this brings back memories and would like to add a remark to this thread.

I worked every summer on the crew that landscaped and maintained the grounds at a country club. I learned so much in those years from the guys who I helped in clearing brush etc. Things you just cannot learn in college. Each year when I went back to school, I just felt "smarter" because of that summer job.

Life is a process and we need to allow it to happen with a plan and you learn in so many ways from so many "unintended teachers"

This womb to tomb life bubble has got to stop. Too many people have never had or lost the skill sets to get through life on their own. The graduation rate for community college is very low and those going to community college would be better off finding a good paying job b applying for certification and training with software training with data companies like Adobe Google, etc .

HERE is the big story on Tennessee Promise made by the federal government.
Tennessee funds free community college expenses from proceeds strictly from their LOTTERY.

the federal government said it would model their program after the Tennessee program.

P.S.
For those who view social security and medicare as entitlement program and I don't remember that all beneficiaries had skin in both games and some got skinned really good

We have the federal government doing bailouts and forgiveness programs for students who took out loans that can't or won't repay because they have low paying jobs or no job at all

You are on target RUBICON, and yet here on TOTV, people just support whatever is easy. This proposal will never ever get passed, and those who propose it know it, BUT this appeases a segment of voters and thus it seems ok to them to put it out there to show they care.

How any reasonably intelligent person who is even slightly aware of our debt and budget cannot see the direction we are going. The fiber of the country is being dissolved and instead of resisting, it seems like we just line up and support whatever is said as long as it fits our ideology or what we think is our ideology.