[walterray1]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

If I don't get my morning cup I get a migraine. I learned that caffeine could prevent migraines, AND can trigger them. Cafergot is a prescription version of a cup of coffee, with the addition of ergotamine tartrate. Funny thing about ergot - that's one of the ingredients used in the making of LSD. It's also a fungus that grows on rye seeds.

Not merely legal, but used widely for people who get migraine or cluster headaches, prescribed and covered by insurance.

And yet cannabis is still considered as dangerous as heroin, according to the class schedule, because the DEA STILL hasn't acknowledged that cannabis has any "accepted medical use". Notice I say they haven't acknowledge it. They KNOW it has accepted medical use. It's used medically, in most parts of the world, including the USA. They just haven't acknowledge it officially, so it remains on the schedule 1 list.

Yes, at the risk of being accused of being the thread police, it may be time. Was a very good thread about Pot has now evolved into the coffee debate.

[Laker14]

It still comes down to the age-old American debate about freedom.

We want our freedom to do what makes us happy, and makes us feel good, but we aren't shy about denying others the freedom to do what makes them happy or feel good.

Cases in point:
I like coffee. Too much of it can make my heart race, and give me an ulcer. I have tried to quit. I get headaches for days, and feel lethargic when I don't drink it. But it's legal.

I like a couple of alcoholic beverages in the evening. Me personally, I don't enjoy it at all if I have it during the day, but in the evenings I really enjoy it. When I deny myself my evening cocktail, after a couple of days I get grouchy. If I drink it at the wrong time, and engage in the wrong activity, I become a danger to others. I know people whose lives have been ruined by excessive drinking. We all have known and loved someone whose life has been ruined by excessive drinking. Period. We all do. But it's legal.

I don't enjoy pot. I did once, back in my college days I loved it. Now, either because I've changed, or the pot has changed, I simply don't enjoy it. Among the things I don't like about it, the day after I feel very lethargic. I don't feel like golfing, or playing pickleball, or doing my PT exercises....But I know people who use it recreationally, and to self-medicate for pain, anxiety, sleep problems, attention deficit issues, and they use it EVERY FREEKIN' DAY, just like I use my coffee and my evening booze. They are fine. They function well. Run businesses, make a lot of money. They are happy. They aren't hurting anyone at all, yet the government, with the blessing of many people who have their own but different ways of getting through their days (despite those ways all having the potential to make them sick, or worse), denies them that particular freedom which helps them function well, be happy and feel good. But it's OK with all of those people because it is not THEIR freedom that is being denied. It's someone else's.

It's really that simple.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Laker14

It still comes down to the age-old American debate about freedom.

We want our freedom to do what makes us happy, and makes us feel good, but we aren't shy about denying others the freedom to do what makes them happy or feel good.

Cases in point:
I like coffee. Too much of it can make my heart race, and give me an ulcer. I have tried to quit. I get headaches for days, and feel lethargic when I don't drink it. But it's legal.

I like a couple of alcoholic beverages in the evening. Me personally, I don't enjoy it at all if I have it during the day, but in the evenings I really enjoy it. When I deny myself my evening cocktail, after a couple of days I get grouchy. If I drink it at the wrong time, and engage in the wrong activity, I become a danger to others. I know people whose lives have been ruined by excessive drinking. We all have known and loved someone whose life has been ruined by excessive drinking. Period. We all do. But it's legal.

I don't enjoy pot. I did once, back in my college days I loved it. Now, either because I've changed, or the pot has changed, I simply don't enjoy it. Among the things I don't like about it, the day after I feel very lethargic. I don't feel like golfing, or playing pickleball, or doing my PT exercises....But I know people who use it recreationally, and to self-medicate for pain, anxiety, sleep problems, attention deficit issues, and they use it EVERY FREEKIN' DAY, just like I use my coffee and my evening booze. They are fine. They function well. Run businesses, make a lot of money. They are happy. They aren't hurting anyone at all, yet the government, with the blessing of many people who have their own but different ways of getting through their days (despite those ways all having the potential to make them sick, or worse), denies them that particular freedom which helps them function well, be happy and feel good. But it's OK with all of those people because it is not THEIR freedom that is being denied. It's someone else's.

It's really that simple.

Yup

[Ben Franklin]

Originally Posted by Laker14

It still comes down to the age-old American debate about freedom.

We want our freedom to do what makes us happy, and makes us feel good, but we aren't shy about denying others the freedom to do what makes them happy or feel good.

Cases in point:
I like coffee. Too much of it can make my heart race, and give me an ulcer. I have tried to quit. I get headaches for days, and feel lethargic when I don't drink it. But it's legal.

I like a couple of alcoholic beverages in the evening. Me personally, I don't enjoy it at all if I have it during the day, but in the evenings I really enjoy it. When I deny myself my evening cocktail, after a couple of days I get grouchy. If I drink it at the wrong time, and engage in the wrong activity, I become a danger to others. I know people whose lives have been ruined by excessive drinking. We all have known and loved someone whose life has been ruined by excessive drinking. Period. We all do. But it's legal.

I don't enjoy pot. I did once, back in my college days I loved it. Now, either because I've changed, or the pot has changed, I simply don't enjoy it. Among the things I don't like about it, the day after I feel very lethargic. I don't feel like golfing, or playing pickleball, or doing my PT exercises....But I know people who use it recreationally, and to self-medicate for pain, anxiety, sleep problems, attention deficit issues, and they use it EVERY FREEKIN' DAY, just like I use my coffee and my evening booze. They are fine. They function well. Run businesses, make a lot of money. They are happy. They aren't hurting anyone at all, yet the government, with the blessing of many people who have their own but different ways of getting through their days (despite those ways all having the potential to make them sick, or worse), denies them that particular freedom which helps them function well, be happy and feel good. But it's OK with all of those people because it is not THEIR freedom that is being denied. It's someone else's.

It's really that simple.

Bingo!

[Byte1]

MJ has been legalized for medical use. Be honest. Since you all are making excuses about MJ being safe and should be legalized, I suppose you are suggesting it be legal for recreational use. SO, in that case you shouldn't have any problem with Oxycodone being made legal for recreational use. Coffee is NOT MJ and Oxy is NOT MJ, but there have been plenty of studies that prove that MJ does have dangerous or long term side effects. CBD is MJ without the THC, or very little. It has uses and has yet to be deemed dangerous, therefore it is not illegal. THC is illegal and I want to know why you would want it legalized.
Today's MJ is much stronger than the old stuff most of you hippies smoked/still smoke. It really IS a gateway drug from some. This is why I vote NO for legalizing MJ. I don't have much problem with using it for medical purposes, BUT most of it is being used for recreational purposes even though subscribed by doctors.
I use LEGAL CBD oil but I do NOT use MJ in any other form. I use the stuff without THC.
And for those that insist on comparing MJ with alcohol, I would have no problem if they banned liquor in any form for anything other than some form of medical purpose. Tell me where alcohol has done any good. If you insist that you need something to "relax" you, then try exercise. Exercise works wonders for stress.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Byte1

MJ has been legalized for medical use. Be honest. Since you all are making excuses about MJ being safe and should be legalized, I suppose you are suggesting it be legal for recreational use. SO, in that case you shouldn't have any problem with Oxycodone being made legal for recreational use. Coffee is NOT MJ and Oxy is NOT MJ, but there have been plenty of studies that prove that MJ does have dangerous or long term side effects. CBD is MJ without the THC, or very little. It has uses and has yet to be deemed dangerous, therefore it is not illegal. THC is illegal and I want to know why you would want it legalized.
Today's MJ is much stronger than the old stuff most of you hippies smoked/still smoke. It really IS a gateway drug from some. This is why I vote NO for legalizing MJ. I don't have much problem with using it for medical purposes, BUT most of it is being used for recreational purposes even though subscribed by doctors.
I use LEGAL CBD oil but I do NOT use MJ in any other form. I use the stuff without THC.
And for those that insist on comparing MJ with alcohol, I would have no problem if they banned liquor in any form for anything other than some form of medical purpose. Tell me where alcohol has done any good. If you insist that you need something to "relax" you, then try exercise. Exercise works wonders for stress.

Hmm, well, I agree with most of what you said here. What I don't understand is why you feel you should deny someone else what they want to use to "relax" or get "stoned" or any other reason someone may want to use something.

I certainly understand making it illegal to drive while intoxicated or do any other activity that might put others' lives in danger. I completely agree with regulating access to it for minors.

And yes, I am in favor of making all drugs legal for recreational use. Just like I am in favor of many things for recreational purposes that I personally would never use or do.

Making something legal does not mean it is not regulated. Just like making something regulated does not make it illegal.

[Byte1]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Hmm, well, I agree with most of what you said here. What I don't understand is why you feel you should deny someone else what they want to use to "relax" or get "stoned" or any other reason someone may want to use something.

I certainly understand making it illegal to drive while intoxicated or do any other activity that might put others' lives in danger. I completely agree with regulating access to it for minors.

And yes, I am in favor of making all drugs legal for recreational use. Just like I am in favor of many things for recreational purposes that I personally would never use or do.

Making something legal does not mean it is not regulated. Just like making something regulated does not make it illegal.

The same reason many on here insist that the gov mandate vaccinations.
If "making something regulated does not make it illegal" then MJ is not illegal, right? Because MJ is regulated ---- for medical purposes.

Like I said before, if you need artificial means to "relax" then it should be regulated by a doctor. There are natural ways to "relax" without the possibility of endangering yourself or others.

I've stated my opinion and none of the resulting posts have convinced me of the value of legalizing MJ for recreational purposes. But, I have also said that I do not believe that incarceration is warranted for merely using MJ. A fine could be a deterrent for most decent citizens.

Another thought. Making MJ legal for recreational use would also end up with many folks going to work under the influence. Do you really want someone from DMV, IRS, the fire dept, construction, Uber, bus driver, etc. serving you? Be honest.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Byte1

Another thought. Making MJ legal for recreational use would also end up with many folks going to work under the influence. Do you really want someone from DMV, IRS, the fire dept, construction, Uber, bus driver, etc. serving you? Be honest.

1. how do you know they aren't already?
2. impaired driving, impaired operation of mechanical things, impaired work, impaired anything, is already covered by OSHA and at the workplace. If a substance is impairing their ability to perform their tasks as described, then it doesn't matter WHAT substance is doing the impairing. It could be cannabis, prescribed painkillers to treat recovery from surgery, alcohol, recreational use of painkillers, an antihistimine to treat allergies, or they took an extra prescribed, necessary prozac by mistake that morning. If it impairs their function, they have to go home. If they're impaired on purpose, they go home, and can't come back. If they're not impaired, how do you know they're not using something?

[TNLAKEPANDA]

Originally Posted by Kenswing

I'm a live and let live kind of guy. Don't much care what one does in the privacy of their own home. As long as they don't get high and drive or become an otherwise public nuisance, I'm fine with it.

I very much agree. And it should definitely be decriminalized! Hell they are not even convicting people stealing up $1000 worth of goods from stores and murders and rapists get out of prison in a few years if they are even convicted!

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Byte1

The same reason many on here insist that the gov mandate vaccinations.

Well, no, because vaccinations protect me from you. MJ being illegal protects me from ME.

Big difference.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Byte1

Another thought. Making MJ legal for recreational use would also end up with many folks going to work under the influence. Do you really want someone from DMV, IRS, the fire dept, construction, Uber, bus driver, etc. serving you? Be honest.

Hmm, and so, that brings us back to alcohol is legal and all those people do go to work drunk. In fact, it is not uncommon for pilots to go to work drunk.

So, laws don't stop that behavior, they only punish people after the fact. So, Back to making MJ illegal would appear to be no worse than alcohol being illegal.

I believe you said you wouldn't mind alcohol being illegal - and I am all with you on that.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Well, no, because vaccinations protect me from you. MJ being illegal protects me from ME.

Big difference.

It only protects you from you if you obey the law. Being vaccinated will protect me from you, even if it's not mandated.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

It only protects you from you if you obey the law. Being vaccinated will protect me from you, even if it's not mandated.

Very true, but if mandated (which is what the post I was referring to) said, then it would "force" others to protect me - since I am already vaccinated I don't need to be forced - LOL!

[Laker14]

Originally Posted by Byte1

The same reason many on here insist that the gov mandate vaccinations.
If "making something regulated does not make it illegal" then MJ is not illegal, right? Because MJ is regulated ---- for medical purposes.

Like I said before, if you need artificial means to "relax" then it should be regulated by a doctor. There are natural ways to "relax" without the possibility of endangering yourself or others.

I've stated my opinion and none of the resulting posts have convinced me of the value of legalizing MJ for recreational purposes. But, I have also said that I do not believe that incarceration is warranted for merely using MJ. A fine could be a deterrent for most decent citizens.

Another thought. Making MJ legal for recreational use would also end up with many folks going to work under the influence. Do you really want someone from DMV, IRS, the fire dept, construction, Uber, bus driver, etc. serving you? Be honest.

Why? Why should my method of relaxation, be regulated by anyone? Alcohol? Should my use of that be regulated by a doctor? Booze by Rx only?

Hey, what about artificial methods of stimulation? Should that be regulated? Should I need a doctor visit and Rx for my morning caffeine. Too much caffeine is a bad thing, right? Do I want my vascular surgeon working on me after too much coffee?

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Hmm, well, I agree with most of what you said here. What I don't understand is why you feel you should deny someone else what they want to use to "relax" or get "stoned" or any other reason someone may want to use something.

I certainly understand making it illegal to drive while intoxicated or do any other activity that might put others' lives in danger. I completely agree with regulating access to it for minors.

And yes, I am in favor of making all drugs legal for recreational use. Just like I am in favor of many things for recreational purposes that I personally would never use or do.

Making something legal does not mean it is not regulated. Just like making something regulated does not make it illegal.

So tell me how liquor is regulated other than taxing? I can buy as much as I want in liquor store, then go home drink as much as I like and go where I want. How legal regulating MJ be any different other than regulating the tax?