[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

Narcotics Anonymous - Wikipedia

Also Alcoholics Anonymous these days according to what I hear from some of its members comprises few "pure" alcoholics anymore, especially among its younger members who are also addicted to marijuana and other mind altering substances.

Sorry, there is NO evidence that marijuana is addictive. Any substance can be emotionally addictive, but physical addition is not a problem with Marijuana.

[TSO/ISPF]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

The War on Drugs acts as a price support guarantee for the Drug cartels, Americans WANT drugs, and they will pay whatever it costs to get them.

Poor kids from the inner-city have to make a choice - stand on a corner and sell drugs and get rich, buy guns, cars, and sex, or flip burgers for less than minimum wage. Since they need to protect themselves and their stash, they need to have guns. Because the other kids have guns, expensive handguns become an affordable cost of doing business, leading to the arms race with the police departments and the formation of gangs to help control turf for drug markets.

The drug war is possibly the worst policy this country has ever conceived of; whether or not you think drugs should be legal, there has to be a better way to deal with the drug "problems."

And let's not conflate the war on drugs and the separate issue of making marijuana illegal. Making MJ illegal started long before Nixon when the government first commissioned a study to determine if MJ was harmful or dangerous, and the report came back that it wasn't. That was not an acceptable outcome, so they announced that "more studies are needed." And the "More studies are needed" has been constantly repeated ever since - almost 100 years now (1937).

There is no doubt that inhaling smoke from a burning plant is hazardous. There is also evidence that marijuana can have adverse side effects. But, it's a matter of degree. And there are safer ways to take MJ - such as tinctures and edibles.

The old "reefer madness" (government slogan predating "brain on drugs") is simply a flat-out lie.

I believe there is still no evidence of ANYONE ever dying from an overdose of MJ, but many die from overdoses of Alcohol.

There is little or no evidence of automobile accidents resulting from or caused by MJ use. (30,000 die in Auto accidents annually, and the majority have Alcohol associated with them)

I don't believe there has ever been a bar fight with MJ as a cause, yet violence is a common side effect of Alcohol.

MJ is known to cause brain damage but about 10% of the brain damage caused by Alcohol.

Alcohol is addictive; MJ is not addictive.

It goes on and on.

If you can't tell, I am in favor of legalization.

There is NO serious evidence of MJ being a problem or a gateway. On the contrary, there is significant evidence that it is useful in treating numerous diseases and health conditions.

To all the people who comment that they have seen how much damage it can do to people's lives, I suggested some people will destroy their lives with some drug - MJ is not a gateway; it is simply inexpensive and readily available. Once a person has contacts with the black market criminals they buy from, it is a small step to get hard drugs from the same market. Pushers will often offer "free samples". But, again, it is not the MJ that causes the problem; it is forcing people to use illegal channels to get drugs.

I would remind everyone what happened when Alcohol was prohibited - mobs (like the Kennedys) got rich, and many people died. Just like what has been happening ever since we decided to make drugs illegal.

I couldn't agree more! Keeping it unlawful contributes to the criminal Cartels and the violence associated with them.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by manaboutown

"Marijuana use can lead to the development of problem use, known as a marijuana use disorder, which takes the form of addiction in severe cases. Recent data suggest that 30% of those who use marijuana may have some degree of marijuana use disorder. People who begin using marijuana before the age of 18 are four to seven times more likely to develop a marijuana use disorder than adults."

From: Is marijuana addictive? | National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA)

Yes, it is a USE disorder, not physical addiction. Some also refer to it as emotional addiction. It is NOT the marijuana that the person is addicted to it is the use of something - eating disorders in general fall into this category. Chocolate cake is not addictive but can be part of an emotional addiction which would be called an eating disorder.

There is reason to believe that for whatever reason some people develop use disorders and others don't. The mechanism is not understood. However, physical addiction is fairly clearly understood - and has been studied with MJ, and there no evidence it is physically addicting.

So, if you have a tendency to overeat, to "self-medicate" and other negative consumption behaviors you should avoid any of a wide range of substances, including alcohol, coffee, marijuana, etc. etc., etc.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by heims01

I couldn't agree more! Keeping it unlawful contributes to the criminal Cartels and the violence associated with them.

Yes, and for fear of sounding like a conspiracy nut, for some of the S. American cartels we are talking about a $50B/year business of selling illegal drugs in the US.

If I was head of a company doing $50B/year in sales to a country, I would certainly be motivated to donate millions (billions?) to the campaigns of politicians that have a history of voting to protect my source of income. I might even spend a few million spreading false reports of the negative impact of using my product - just to be sure people want it to remain illegal.

Just saying that is just me, and what I think I would do if I ran a $50B/year business selling illegal items.

[Ben Franklin]

Yes, legalize it. That it is illegal is immoral. Both marijuana and booze were legal in the US, until prohibition. The gov't then allowed the booze drug, yes, booze is a mind altering drug, to be legal again, but not marijuana, thanks only to Harry Anslinger. The man behind the marijuana ban for all the wrong reasons - CBS News

The US has been subsidizing marijuana research in Israel for over 50 years now, via our NIH. Thanks to our tax dollars, Israel has the finest medical marijuana system in the world, and it's been decriminalized. They have all the research our money could buy.

[Stu from NYC]

We lost the war on drugs many years ago. Should be making pot legal in all 50 states

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Stu from NYC

We lost the war on drugs many years ago. Should be making pot legal in all 50 states

Yup, and redirect all the money (BILLIONS) we spend every year locking people up for smoking MJ, into drug treatment facilities for people that get into things over their heads and they can then get back into the workforce and start paying taxes again.

[Ben Franklin]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

The War on Drugs acts as a price support guarantee for the Drug cartels, Americans WANT drugs, and they will pay whatever it costs to get them.

Poor kids from the inner-city have to make a choice - stand on a corner and sell drugs and get rich, buy guns, cars, and sex, or flip burgers for less than minimum wage. Since they need to protect themselves and their stash, they need to have guns. Because the other kids have guns, expensive handguns become an affordable cost of doing business, leading to the arms race with the police departments and the formation of gangs to help control turf for drug markets.

The drug war is possibly the worst policy this country has ever conceived of; whether or not you think drugs should be legal, there has to be a better way to deal with the drug "problems."

And let's not conflate the war on drugs and the separate issue of making marijuana illegal. Making MJ illegal started long before Nixon when the government first commissioned a study to determine if MJ was harmful or dangerous, and the report came back that it wasn't. That was not an acceptable outcome, so they announced that "more studies are needed." And the "More studies are needed" has been constantly repeated ever since - almost 100 years now (1937).

There is no doubt that inhaling smoke from a burning plant is hazardous. There is also evidence that marijuana can have adverse side effects. But, it's a matter of degree. And there are safer ways to take MJ - such as tinctures and edibles.

The old "reefer madness" (government slogan predating "brain on drugs") is simply a flat-out lie.

I believe there is still no evidence of ANYONE ever dying from an overdose of MJ, but many die from overdoses of Alcohol.

There is little or no evidence of automobile accidents resulting from or caused by MJ use. (30,000 die in Auto accidents annually, and the majority have Alcohol associated with them)

I don't believe there has ever been a bar fight with MJ as a cause, yet violence is a common side effect of Alcohol.

MJ is known to cause brain damage but about 10% of the brain damage caused by Alcohol.

Alcohol is addictive; MJ is not addictive.

It goes on and on.

If you can't tell, I am in favor of legalization.

There is NO serious evidence of MJ being a problem or a gateway. On the contrary, there is significant evidence that it is useful in treating numerous diseases and health conditions.

To all the people who comment that they have seen how much damage it can do to people's lives, I suggested some people will destroy their lives with some drug - MJ is not a gateway; it is simply inexpensive and readily available. Once a person has contacts with the black market criminals they buy from, it is a small step to get hard drugs from the same market. Pushers will often offer "free samples". But, again, it is not the MJ that causes the problem; it is forcing people to use illegal channels to get drugs.

I would remind everyone what happened when Alcohol was prohibited - mobs (like the Kennedys) got rich, and many people died. Just like what has been happening ever since we decided to make drugs illegal.

Government couldn’t control the country’s urge to drink during prohibition, and criminals stepped in to supply the demand people couldn’t fill legally. Al Capone comes to mind. So, yes, the same thing is happening with marijuana.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Ben Franklin

Government couldn’t control the country’s urge to drink during prohibition, and criminals stepped in to supply the demand people couldn’t fill legally. Al Capone comes to mind. So, yes, the same thing is happening with marijuana.

Yup, people will get what they want, one way or the other. It is a fools errand to try and stop them.

[Two Bills]

In Holland annually, the cannabis coffee shops generate an estimated 400 million euros in tax – money that would otherwise have accrued to criminal profiteers.
Thats from a population of just over 17 million.
With a population nearly 20 times as great, that's a lot of dosh to put against the national debt in USA. if it was legalised.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Two Bills

In Holland annually, the cannabis coffee shops generate an estimated 400 million euros in tax – money that would otherwise have accrued to criminal profiteers.
Thats from a population of just over 17 million.
With a population nearly 20 times as great, that's a lot of dosh to put against the national debt in USA. if it was legalised.

Yes, and that is just income. There is also enormous savings from the reduction in crime by putting the black market out of business.

Sadly, in many cases here in the US the government just can't help itself but screw up legalizing it, resulting in a black market still existing and feeding crime.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Sorry, there is NO evidence that marijuana is addictive. Any substance can be emotionally addictive, but physical addition is not a problem with Marijuana.

Isn’t it strange, though, that the potheads we know crave their joints?

[GrumpyOldMan]

Originally Posted by Aces4

Isn’t it strange, though, that the potheads we know crave their joints?

Craving is not the same as addiction. I often crave chocolate, or cashews, or pizza. But, I would not rob a convenience store to get enough money to buy some.

Also, there is the use disorder or emotional addiction to substances, so, in their case, it could be a "crutch" as opposed to actual physical addiction.

I am NOT downplaying emotional addiction or use disorders, they are serious. But they are not physically dependent on the substance, they are a psychological or mental disorder.

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by brfree1411@aol.com

For those of us who used MJ as a way to relax on weekends in the 60's & 70's, we know that MJ makes you calm, peaceful & hungry. It never makes you violent. Driving is an experience, you S-L-O-W down, stop at green lights, stop for a long while at stop signs. No danger of speeding or having an accident.
Unless you have smoked it, you will believe anything the studies show. I stopped smoking since 1981 and have had no withdrawals ever. Basically, it is a way to really relax & if you do it inside your home & stay put it should be nobody's business. Yes, it will be taxed, as is liquor, so what. The freedom to use it should be legal.
I have seen people addicted to gambling, sex, alcohol & anything else. MJ is not addictive. A person with an addictive personality will get addicted to TV, video games, cell phones, anything.
A good percentage of adults are on "anxiety" medication. MJ would cure that for sure.

In all honesty, why would you quit if it was your perfect panacea? I love talking and having a conversation with someone smoking dope. (I lied, but then I don’t enjoy conversation with drinkers when they are fried.)

[Aces4]

Originally Posted by GrumpyOldMan

Craving is not the same as addiction. I often crave chocolate, or cashews, or pizza. But, I would not rob a convenience store to get enough money to buy some.

Also, there is the use disorder or emotional addiction to substances, so, in their case, it could be a "crutch" as opposed to actual physical addiction.

I am NOT downplaying emotional addiction or use disorders, they are serious. But they are not physically dependent on the substance, they are a psychological or mental disorder.

Why are so many people able to cope with reality? That’s the question that haunts me and believe me, I’ve done a lot of coping in my life but mind altering drugs have never been on my radar.