How is it possible for a subject of this nature to be discussed if ANY reference is labeled political.

I am glad the admin has allowed these discussions to continue as much as they have.

I am also glad they do not respond to the onsey/twosey that request a thread be closed when their personal aspect MAY be affected.

Facts of any matter do cross one or another's alignment, however the discussion needs to be continued to allow understanding and educating.

Some of us need to be able to discuss those things in the world that may affect us all at some time in the near future. Put away the red or the blue flag waving and let's DEBATE what we think we know. And be adult enough to take as well as recieve without crying foul!!

NO STRUGGLE.....NO PROGRESS!!!!

Personally, I think this thread has done a reasonably good job of steering clear of pure politics. Discussion of meaningful issues that have real, significant effects on the world does not automatically equate to politics.

Most times politics is the furthest thing from reality. The ISIS threat is very real.

Weighing in a little late on this as golf and dinner beckoned.
Besides the usual back and forth what caught my attention is when a Muslim took umbrage at a photo of an overflow crowd praying outside their house of worship being portrayed in a negative way and then being badgered does not seem what Americans are all about.

Watch BBC World News or BBC online and then you will have the unbiased stuff, straight from the horse's mouth so to speak. Nothing distorted for television viewing, PM Cameron gave a strong speech and let the public know what is happening, and that is how it should be.

How is blocking traffic in London while waving the Al Qaeda flag not "negative"?

And how are they not "badgering" Jews and other non-muslims with this??

July 29, 2014 -- London: Anti-Israel Muslims block traffic, wave al-Qaeda flag

London: Anti-Israel Muslims block traffic...

I have a question for the person who's religion is muslim - Does it say in your book, the quran, that everyone whom is not a muslim must be killed?
Are you an American now and if you should kill other muslims will your GOD not like this? Is it in the quran about killing other muslims?
Are you as upset about isis as other Americans or do you feel like they are doing your GODS work.
Just wondering about your religion because I have lived all my life in a Christian nation.

The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. I being a believer in the GOD of Abraham is a person that should be frightened of muslims. Why would American muslims be any different when they all go by the same book? Please someone enlighten me as this is all very frightening.

I think Sophie that you are right. But fortunately in this case all people do not follow the letter of the law in the practice of their faith.

I think that MOST people take the things that they like from the philosophy that they follow and disregard the things that they don't like.

To be very devout in your faith can make you to be like both Mother Teresa or Osama Bin Laden or that man somewhere in Florida, the minister who burnt the Quran. To be devout means a myriad of things to a lot of people.

I don't know how most Muslims think. I don't know how most Christians thing and I don't know how most Jews think, but I do know how ISIS thinks and I know how I think.

There was a lot about it in the news. It wasn't outside their church. Here is a picture of it happening in Paris.

http://www.barenakedislam.com/wp-con...2-26056154.jpg

GG, Just go back and look at the picture you posted. Above the entrance it says "Mosquee Adda 'wa which is in Paris.

Why not directly ask a Muslim leader the question? Take a couple of friends and visit the Islamic Center in Clermont which is about a 45 minute drive from The Villages.

That picture was taken in Paris. I was careful to be sure of that.There is a section there just like China town in Chicago.

Here is a picture to be fair of other people clogging the streets in
http://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/..._107042114.jpg

Italy . I think they are Catholics like me. Lot of street clogging going on.

I know we're a little off topic but here is a famous clogged street photo from 100 years ago.

Attachment 44640

Yes, either you have faith in your religion or you pick and choose what you like.
Jesus is the way the TRUTH and the life. Mother Teresa never killed anyone and her life on earth made a better planet.
The truth is we are a Christian nation - how many Christian churches are in our cities, towns and rural roads of America?

On the subject of Islamic terrorists, and other countries, CNN just reported that Al Qaeda is saying they are planning to go to India.

Al Qaeda says it's opening branch in India - CNN.com

India is predominantly Hindu, a very peaceful religion.

Is THIS what we're supposed to sit like fools and wait for in our streets and tunnels?

Is THIS what we'll allow to show our gratitude to all the veterans and active military who've sacrificed life and limb for our freedoms?

July 29, 2014 -- London: Anti-Israel Muslims block traffic, wave al-Qaeda flag

London: Anti-Israel Muslims block traffic...[/QUOTE]

Just like BarryRX. I have perimeters to my beliefs. I don't want to be sucked into a hate movement, I want to be AWARE of what is happening now and try to digest it.

If we start to argue religion, we get off focus of what is happening. The goal of ISIS is to kill all people who do not think like them. Al Qaeda is just as opposed to us. And so is Hamas. They are extreme and we are their target.

For anyone interested.......

"'Deviant and Pathological': What Do ISIS Extremists Really Want?"

'Deviant and Pathological': What Do ISIS Extremists Really Want? - NBC News

"What Does ISIS Want, Exactly? The Terrorists' Stated Goal Has Been Made Clear"

Bustle

That is one way to think of it.

En route to tel aviv..just praying...

London
 

Anyone who has ever stayed in London by the Marble Arch can appreciate the problem the UK faces. In that area you would have a hard time telling if you were in Iran or London. It is all Muslims. The UK faces serious problems when it comes to Muslims who want to kill Christians. :rant-rave:

I posted a few links on the ISIS philosophy, which if you read are very interesting concerning the caliphate's, etc.

I did just a bit of research on how the Muslim world perceives this situation, since from I can see, nobody in our media is covering that aspect (could have missed it)

From the Islamic Monthly......


"Dear ISIS & Abu Bakr Al-Baghdadi,

You are not “The Islamic State.”

There is nothing Islamic about beheading foreign journalists, indiscriminately targeting religious minorities and instilling wanton terror within the general civilian population where your terrorist thugs operate.

As I mentioned during a July 2012 CNN television interview, you are so crazy that even Al-Qaeda’s leader Ayman Al-Zawahiri has distanced himself from the actions of your terrorist organization.

Seriously, you know that you’re a bunch of lunatics when even Al-Qaeda says that you are too ‘cray-cray’ for their taste."

Let

From ONISLAM.NET



"
CAIRO – India Sunni and Shiite Muslims have united against the rise of Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISL), asserting that the actions of destroying holy sites, supporting sectarianism and divisions between Muslim groups cannot be attributed to a true Islamic state.


India Muslims Rise Up Against ISIL - Asia-Pacific - News - OnIslam.net

I will never understand our media and the attempt to control our thinking. There are always two sides to every story and you cannot judge or decide hearing only one side. This is not a defense of anyone, but we need to understand both sides.

I agree with all three points that you make ...

However, we can't play defense forever. The longer we wait, the harder it gets. ISIS needs to be destroyed. If (and it's a big if) we have the will we can do it. Right now, the will does not exist.

The longer we wait the bigger the price we will pay in both American lives and all the lives in the middle east as they grow stonger and richer and more bold than they are now.
They have absolutely no fear of being interfeared with by us. All they have to do is watch the daily news here and know the current administration is not about to do ANYTHING.

ISSA is obviously not a priority. All tha needs to be done is tell the military to contain ISSA wher they are. Also adopt the UK LEAD by watching the borders (:1rotfl::1rotfl:) and not let the Americans who have been to Syria and other known terror training grounds back into this country. Next those Americans who are here and openly bragging they support ISSA, either put them on a plane to Syria without a passport OR send the to Gitmo for the duration.

This would require some planning and a strategy (:1rotfl:). But we will wait until there is an attack on our home ground then do the usual knee jerk reaction still witout a plan as usual.

Unfortunately, this is the de facto strategy ... wait until we're attacked and then do something. I call it the "ostrich strategy." That's impeachable in my view ... and if an attack occurs, it will become a groundswell across the spectrum.

Are you talking about September 11, 2001 when we did nothing until we were attacked? And who should be impeached?

Apples and oranges ... there was no specific, actionable intelligence at the time (I'm referring to the President's Daily Briefing ... which I've read since it was declassified later on). There was no way to do prevent it. The same conditions applied to President Clinton ... I'm not trying to make this partisan.

I think you will agree that the threat level today from ISIS is clear and direct. Or maybe you don't? in addition, when the current President says he has no strategy, that means (to me) he is not taking the action needed to protect the American people. That is what is impeachable ... especially if a mass casualty attack occurs. That by the way would apply to any president regardless of party. It's a failure of the most important constitutional duty any President has.

When something happens on somebody's watch then there's ownership. Pure and simple.

AND....they own it all on day one....an executive fact of life not subscribed to by way to many folks

The president's daily briefing on August 6, 2001 said "Al Queda determined to attack US". What could be more clear than that? And the president's response was "okay, you covered your ass, now get out of here". Look it up.

Forget about what happened years ago...or one year ago or last week.

See what is happening NOW. OR what is NOT happening now.

I think that although a lot of people would like to see some kind of action being taken, many are tired of war and are afraid of seeing "boots on the ground" again.

The president has said that the boots on the ground option is off the table. I don't know that he'll be able to keep that promise. But, like his predecessor said, this is a different kind of war. Things will go on every day that the American public will not know about. It will be a war of covert operations and intelligence, more so than any war in the past.

We have a bit of a dichotomy here in that much of the American public doesn't want to see us in another Iraq situation, but they would also feel better if they could see something happening. That "something happening" however, would include video of body bags of American soldiers on the news every night. (We know how much the news media loves to show that.)

The way this war is being waged, (I hope) will not be visible to us. So we will be left with this uncomfortable feeling that nothing is being done.

Neither one of these options makes the American public comfortable.

It may be clear, but it is very unspecific. In order to take some sort of action, I think that clear, credible and specific information is needed. President Clinton also received this type of report several times and had basically the same response.

"Al Queda determined to attack US". Really? When? Where? How? Are they even capable of doing this?

This type of report was typical and was coming to the president on a daily basis for years. It's like saying that someday, your neighbor is going to punch you in the face.

We had defenses up but no one, up until that time, ever considered the idea that someone would hijack airliners and crash them into buildings.

Here's what the president actually said regarding our strategy:

Now first, let me state that I am a republican and fairly conservative. I would much have preferred that Mitt Rommey be sitting in that office right now. But, we shouldn't be going off half cocked making mountains out of molehills and trying to twist every little the president says into something that it's not.

As I said in another post, I don't think that we are doing nothing. As President Bush said, we will not see much of what is happening in this war against terror. Mush will be clandestine operation. How many of us saw everything that went into the killing of Osama bin Laden?

I don't think that everything in our entire government, military, and CIA have completely changed because the man in the oval office changes.

Like many of us, I am uncomfortable with not seeing and knowing every step we are taking, but I'm hoping and praying ( and believing) that we are doing something.

Hey Gang. Kitty..i am in Tel Aviv, to pray.for god's will to http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...st-since-nazis on earth as it is in heaven.

I am praying along side of you Kitty!

Glad to hear you made it safely, Kitty. Praying for you here back home.

Boogie already responded to your point (ie generalized report of a threat in the PDB vs specific actionable intelligence) so I won't repeat it here. I also agree with Chi about if something happens on your watch, you own it. That’s also true. However, let’s not get diverted but rather focus on this thread which is the contrast between the UK and US’s response to the current 2014 Islamic threat.

13 years after 9/11, the threat from Radical Islam is clear to all except those who wish to deny it. That is to say, the threat is objectively true, and especially as manifested in ISIS. It also includes a soon to be nuclear armed Iran. I’m assuming you agree that a clear and present threat to the US from Radical Islam (Shia and Sunni) exists. If not, please speak up because that’s the fundamental assumption for what I’m about to argue next … that if a mass casualty attack now occurs on US soil, it will be an impeachable offense.

My reason for arguing this is the threat is clear, and yet unlike the UK, we have no strategy to deal with it. That is a failure of executive leadership on a major scale, and a dereliction of the constitutional duty for any Commander in Chief to protect the country. This assertion applies to any President, current or future, and regardless of party. It is not meant to be a partisan statement so please don’t make it one.

We are no longer talking about a bunch of rag tag guys living in caves who periodically surface with viable attacks. ISIS controls a large territory, is a de facto state, has captured large amounts of US military equipment, and controls hundreds of millions of dollars with more coming in every day. They have a charismatic leader who has a doctorate in Islamic Studies who views himself as the modern day Caliph. They even produce an annual report and use “metrics.” See this link, but be advised it is most unpleasant to read. Al Qaeda disavowed ISIS as even they thought their methods were too brutal.

ISIS, Inc. ? Jihadists attract investors, fighters with annual reports & glossy PR ? RT News

Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is their leader. The Washington Post describes him as a “…shrewd strategist, prolific fundraiser and ruthless killer.” He is apparently our generation’s Hitler who, if left unchallenged will only grow stronger.

How ISIS leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi became the world’s most powerful jihadist leader - The Washington Post

al-Baghdadi was a US captive and released years ago before people realized what he is truly capable of. His last words to his captors were “ see you in New York.” That’s rather chilling.

The bottom line is … we need an aggressive strategy that emphasizes offense. We need to go after them where they live and not wait for them to attack us where we live. ISIS needs to be destroyed, root and branch, and not “managed.” We need leadership to show us the way to victory and protection from the threat. Do you really disagree with any of that? If so, please explain why.

I also repeat that, given today’s circumstances, should a mass casualty attack or series of attacks occur in the US homeland in 2014 or beyond, any President who fails to protect us will be viewed as deserving of impeachment by pretty much everyone across the ideological spectrum.

According to your theory that "any president who fails to protect us will be viewed as deserving of impeachment" states clearly that George W Bush should have been impeached.

How about if the residents of TV organize a "war" march at the polo grounds? We could invite all our elected officials and tell them we want to fight the terrorists there so we don't have to fight them here, and we support a big tax increase to pay for this war.

There could also be recruiters at our march so that TV residents could volunteer their sons and daughters and grandchildren to fight in this war.

And don't forget the press. We need all the publicity we can get for our "march" supporting the next war.

Well said, Sophie11. your one sentance sums up the feelings Gracie and I share. We hope and pray there really IS a plan going on behind the scenes on the part of our leaders. Kitty, prayers for your safety, also.