[NotGolfer]

In the 60's and 70's malls began to pop up so the down-towns were affected. My once flourishing home-town in the midwest is so "depressed" now after their large companies of commerces (manufacturing etc) left---maybe to being swallowed up by larger entities OR work being out-sourced. The town in the 60's/70's appeared to be growing---until it wasn't. It's still the same size it was back in the mid- to late 60's. Many migrants and seniors now call it home. Younger people are leaving for larger communities. I think it's just an example of what's happening all over the country. Now, as others said---the internet is taking up slack for shopping. I like it (sometimes) as it's easy and convenient. I still like to go into a brick and mortar store though and see what's available. We all remember when Sears, Penneys, Dayton's and many others were flourishing companies. It's sad to watch their demise!

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Boomer

My dissertation this morning had to do with repurposing empty, suburban, retail space into independent senior housing apartments. But there is a reason I mentally built a little pre-school there.

In the city I am from, there are some relatively high end continuum-of-care communities that have pre-schools on site. I think there is a psychology to it. (Do not worry. They do not make Grandma work there for free. In fact, I do not think there is much interaction, other than cute little programs the little kids put on sometimes.)

Now that I think about it, Dutchman, with total independent senior living that might not be a big deal. But it has proven to be a nice addition to the places that are classified as continuum-of-care.

But, hey, my post this morning was only my first draft.

I welcome any suggestions about what would be a good use of space in my mall repurposed into independent senior housing. Perhaps a disco?

Anyway, I just thought of something else. People who own REITs, which have been known for their nice dividends -- though I think taxes are different than regular dividends -- might own a piece of those empty malls.

Whatever, a plan needs to be in the works for all that empty, suburban space, before it is too late.

It may not be retail, it may be medical, it may be Tech. It may be even a municipal building or a jail. It will be what people want and or need at the time.

I often wonder, what about all of the empty church buildings? Church attendance continues to drop, (not here) but up North.

In the demise of the malls up north many of the cities and towns have begun to rehab their main streets and fill them with small businesses and shops. They schedule activities like a winter stroll and car shows and art and craft shows in the summer to draw people there. They have taken the mill buildings and turned them into luxury apartments or filled them with craft shops and restaurants. This seems to be working quite well. I think wherever a void is created clever people find a way to fill it. I am sure someone will find use for the empty malls or tear them down and make something new.

[Madelaine Amee]

Originally Posted by NotGolfer

In the 60's and 70's malls began to pop up so the down-towns were affected. My once flourishing home-town in the midwest is so "depressed" now after their large companies of commerces (manufacturing etc) left---maybe to being swallowed up by larger entities OR work being out-sourced. The town in the 60's/70's appeared to be growing---until it wasn't. It's still the same size it was back in the mid- to late 60's. Many migrants and seniors now call it home. Younger people are leaving for larger communities. I think it's just an example of what's happening all over the country. Now, as others said---the internet is taking up slack for shopping. I like it (sometimes) as it's easy and convenient. I still like to go into a brick and mortar store though and see what's available. We all remember when Sears, Penneys, Dayton's and many others were flourishing companies. It's sad to watch their demise!

This comment of yours is what we actually did this past holiday season. My otherhalf needed some new chinos and a pair of dress pants. We went into Belk's to shop ..... it was just awful, it used to be a nice clean easy place to find some good clothing, this time it was just like a Church jumble sale. Racks and racks of sales clothes, nothing was correctly sized. So he found one pair of pants that he liked and in his size, tried them on, went home and ordered them on line. We would have liked to shop in the actual store, but had to resort to the internet.

[Madelaine Amee]

Originally Posted by fw102807

In the demise of the malls up north many of the cities and towns have begun to rehab their main streets and fill them with small businesses and shops. They schedule activities like a winter stroll and car shows and art and craft shows in the summer to draw people there. They have taken the mill buildings and turned them into luxury apartments or filled them with craft shops and restaurants. This seems to be working quite well. I think wherever a void is created clever people find a way to fill it. I am sure someone will find use for the empty malls or tear them down and make something new.

There is a town in Massachusetts, a suburb of Boston, called Andover where Phillips Academy is situated. Due to the Academy it attracts a lot of people. This town used to be an old Mill Town during the industrial years and the old mill buildings were standing empty and starting to look sad. Due to excellent town management they have now been renovated into beautiful condos. The high street thrives and is always packed with people. It is also a town that takes care of its elderly providing low income housing and buses.

It is one of the prettiest towns, plus it has the added advantage of being close to two major highways. This is an example that other towns could follow.

[billethkid]

One has to wonder what the real reason(s) are behind the increasing bankruptcy occurances of, once upon a time, very successful businesses.

Bankruptcy can be a financial strategy to the benefit of owners/shareholders/etc.

There is no more mystery to what is required of a business to remain competitive today than 25 or more years ago.
Some times management/owners are incapable of anticipating threats to longevity.
Other time some just do not want to do so and milk the business for personal gain until they go under.

Classic? A&P in business for 156 years....then shut er down in 2015. Makes no sense other than that was the strategy.

All depends upon the direction dictated by the ownership......OR NOT!

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Most of the stores are in malls now. Go to almost any medium size city of town's downtown area in this country and you'll see empty buildings and offices where retail once was. Stores moved into malls and left decimated Main Streets across the country. The question should be what's going to happen to all these malls with the advent of internet shopping.

Amazon has made going out to shop obsolete and more and more people will be shopping online. I haven't been out Christmas shopping in twenty years except for a few small last minute items. You can get better prices and free shipping with almost everything if you know what you're doing. Food shopping is going to be all there is left in the future and we even have supermarket chains like Publix allowing to shop online and then the product is delivered to your door. Pretty soon no one will ever leave their house except to go to Disney.

[Dr Winston O Boogie jr]

Originally Posted by billethkid

One has to wonder what the real reason(s) are behind the increasing bankruptcy occurances of, once upon a time, very successful businesses.

Bankruptcy can be a financial strategy to the benefit of owners/shareholders/etc.

There is no more mystery to what is required of a business to remain competitive today than 25 or more years ago.
Some times management/owners are incapable of anticipating threats to longevity.
Other time some just do not want to do so and milk the business for personal gain until they go under.

Classic? A&P in business for 156 years....then shut er down in 2015. Makes no sense other than that was the strategy.

All depends upon the direction dictated by the ownership......OR NOT!

There are a number of different reasons. In some businesses there was very little competition. When a company operated with virtually competition for a long period of time, they had no idea what to do when competition came.

Some companies made the mistake of diversifying to too great an extent and trying to become all things to all people.

Others just had bad business plans. New companies came up with more selection and lower prices. Older companies couldn't figure out how to to that. Everyone is competing with Wal-Mart these days. Big chains like that have much stronger buying power and can buy items for less money, sell them for less money and make more profit.

Retail is like everything else in life. Survival of the fittest will always apply. While some stores are going out of business other's are taking their place and thriving.

As these malls buildings are vacated other companies will fill them. Some malls will go completely under and something else will be built on the land. Free standing stores, office buildings, condominiums, or small housing developments will always be needed.

[janht]

It isn't so much the buildings in cities like Boston that will become an issue, it's the suburban buildings being vacated. Being desirable, high rent properties/locations, inner city buildings will always be repurposed into condos, hotels, apts....and high end ones that will give a hefty return. If not repurposed, then new buildings are put up. But the Kmarts, Sears, huge stores that close down in the 'burbs? They're sitting empty and yes...it's a huge problem for the cities and towns. The tenants walk and the community is left to deal with abandoned buildings that now become havens for drug deals, squatters, vandalism.

We have a closed KMart in the heart of our small town that is NOT going to be re-leased; already its 3 yrs empty. It's too large to attract other retailers and too expensive to overhaul. It's a source of ongoing, very heated debates with every possible solution thrown out there. The criminal aspect in my mind is that the owner is currently constructing several new buildings less than sev hundred yards away in the same plaza while the KMart one sits empty and rots. I think towns and cities should have some control over private development in these instances. If the vacant buildings can't be leased within a certain period of time, the developer should be responsible for tearing them down and repairing the land before any further building will be allowed.

As to what happens with all these buildings in less attractive locations than economically healthy cities? Not much apparently; it's going to be a dismal landscape one day.

[GoodLife]

Interesting, a poster laments the passing of brick and mortar shops and then tells us this

So he found one pair of pants that he liked and in his size, tried them on, went home and ordered them on line. We would have liked to shop in the actual store, but had to resort to the internet.



LOL

[Madelaine Amee]

Originally Posted by GoodLife

Interesting, a poster laments the passing of brick and mortar shops and then tells us this

So he found one pair of pants that he liked and in his size, tried them on, went home and ordered them on line. We would have liked to shop in the actual store, but had to resort to the internet.



LOL

So what is your point? WE WENT TO SPEND MONEY IN A BRICK AND MORTAR STORE, due to the bad management of that store we HAD to buy on line. If they want to keep a store open and vibrant get with the program and make the store inviting.

[eweissenbach]

Very interesting discussion. Progress has always been an issue for some, and a revelation for others. It amazes me how quickly we find buildings to be obsolete in this country, compared to Europe. We have beautiful sports venues being razed and replaced because they are not "state of the art". In Minneapolis/St. Paul for example, they are on their third new home of the Twins and Vikings since the early sixties, and similar stories abound in other cities. In Kansas City we have had the same stadiums for the Royals and Chiefs since the early 70s, but with massive remodels, and much opposition that preferred new venues. In Kansas City North, where I live we had a "state of the art" mall built in the mid seventies that has been razed in the last year. I guess the progress is good and keeps thing fresh and interesting, but I wonder if we are being good stewards of our resources. It seems that in this country we are awfully quick to opt for the "new thing". I suppose that everything changes for the better in the long run, but it is hard to keep up with the changes at our ages.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

The Sample Road Flea Market is one example of great use of a space that would typically house a KMart or similar.

You can't blame Amazon for brick and mortars going out of business. Walmart had the market for years, taking over huge parcels of land near ma-and-pa shops, putting them all out of business. Our country is paying for that now. I don't shop at Walmart, partially because of that, partly because of the treatment of their employees, partly because of a complete lack of customer service (it's not bad, it's simply non-existent). When Walmart announced their interest in a nearby town, I was one of the people protesting it. That town, once a thriving high-middle and upper class town, is nothing like it used to be, with small shops having closed completely, boutiques dead, and the property values dropped significantly, bringing into it lower expectations.

It was the choice of shoppers that these things happened. Amazon would not have done so well, if shoppers rejected online purchases. Convenience is convenient, but it doesn't build communities. In fact, it apparently shatters them, as we are seeing now.

I'd love to see some of these closed large department stores turned into a Sample Road Flea Market type deal. Not a mall, but not a singular store either. A place where people can buy and sell new things, hand-made things, antique things, craftwork and fine art, get reasonably priced fresh LOCAL produce (or at the very least, grown in Florida), maybe get a hot knish and a gourmet pickle right out of the barrel for lunch in the center somewhere. The kind of place where most of the booths are rented by the year, but there's a few spaces available for short-term folks who only want to sell things for a season. All in an air conditioned space with tons of parking.

As for malls, a few of you mentioned that all the stores have switched over to malls. News flash for those of you who never venture beyond your own village and don't ever read anything other than your own developer's newsrag: malls are also going out of business. Entire malls, and all the stores in them. Wikipedia even has a page dedicated to them and references the Centre of Tallahassee as one of them.

If you want to see boutiques, antique shops, little ma and pa stores, bodegas, luncheonettes, and other locally-derived shopping experiences, you'll have to start by patronizing the ones still in existence. Stop buying your wrench from Amazon, if there's a hardware store nearby. Sure, it'll cost you an extra buck but it's not like you'll need to buy wrenches every month. Put some food in your neighbor's mouth and sacrifice an extra 10 minutes of your life, in exchange for the thriving of community commerce.

Buy e-books online, sure, why not! But if you're looking for a hard-cover book that was published in the 1970's, get offline, and get your butt to an antique book store or the public library.

BE the customers that these shops exist to serve, and the shops will return.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Jazuela

The Sample Road Flea Market is one example of great use of a space that would typically house a KMart or similar.

You can't blame Amazon for brick and mortars going out of business. Walmart had the market for years, taking over huge parcels of land near ma-and-pa shops, putting them all out of business. Our country is paying for that now. I don't shop at Walmart, partially because of that, partly because of the treatment of their employees, partly because of a complete lack of customer service (it's not bad, it's simply non-existent). When Walmart announced their interest in a nearby town, I was one of the people protesting it. That town, once a thriving high-middle and upper class town, is nothing like it used to be, with small shops having closed completely, boutiques dead, and the property values dropped significantly, bringing into it lower expectations.

It was the choice of shoppers that these things happened. Amazon would not have done so well, if shoppers rejected online purchases. Convenience is convenient, but it doesn't build communities. In fact, it apparently shatters them, as we are seeing now.

I'd love to see some of these closed large department stores turned into a Sample Road Flea Market type deal. Not a mall, but not a singular store either. A place where people can buy and sell new things, hand-made things, antique things, craftwork and fine art, get reasonably priced fresh LOCAL produce (or at the very least, grown in Florida), maybe get a hot knish and a gourmet pickle right out of the barrel for lunch in the center somewhere. The kind of place where most of the booths are rented by the year, but there's a few spaces available for short-term folks who only want to sell things for a season. All in an air conditioned space with tons of parking.

As for malls, a few of you mentioned that all the stores have switched over to malls. News flash for those of you who never venture beyond your own village and don't ever read anything other than your own developer's newsrag: malls are also going out of business. Entire malls, and all the stores in them. Wikipedia even has a page dedicated to them and references the Centre of Tallahassee as one of them.

If you want to see boutiques, antique shops, little ma and pa stores, bodegas, luncheonettes, and other locally-derived shopping experiences, you'll have to start by patronizing the ones still in existence. Stop buying your wrench from Amazon, if there's a hardware store nearby. Sure, it'll cost you an extra buck but it's not like you'll need to buy wrenches every month. Put some food in your neighbor's mouth and sacrifice an extra 10 minutes of your life, in exchange for the thriving of community commerce.

Buy e-books online, sure, why not! But if you're looking for a hard-cover book that was published in the 1970's, get offline, and get your butt to an antique book store or the public library.

BE the customers that these shops exist to serve, and the shops will return.

I respectfully do not agree that Walmart deserves such criticism. They employ people and that is good. They sell things cheaply and that is good. They are successful at it, or at least were successful at it, so they held the market.

I don't see their business model as a nefarious plan to put small business out of business. I see a business plan that worked. I shop there for many things.

It is my personal business plan to be thrifty and keep money to save so that we can take care of our own.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

"Our own" used to be the guy who had the fish market down the street. He was put out of business by the supermarket. HIS fish was much fresher (off the boat every morning), and sometimes even less expensive. But because it was THREE WHOLE BLOCKS further from the neighborhood than the supermarket, and it involved a WHOLE EXTRA STOP just for the fish, people stopped going to him and instead got everything they needed at the supermarket. The supermarket employs mostly people who don't live in our neighborhood at all. They come in off the city bus, or drive from the next town away.

So we didn't do a very good job of "taking care of our own" did we?

You're experiencing the results of this phenomenon now, which is what this thread is all about. The brick and mortars are going out of business, because convenience has replaced quality. There's nothing to agree with or disagree with. There's fact, and there's denial.