What if Gun Control Laws were changed?
 

Your initial premise is in error. The general public cannot purchase military weapons. If you re-read the thread you will learn that there are numerous posters who correctly report this fact.

The Newtown shooter had a mental defect which should not be overlooked. Background checks almost always fail to reveal this information because your federal government fails to make the states report this important personal information. Instead, the Feds depend on self reporting by the individual. This is a huge and problematic defect in the background check system.

You are entitled to your opinion. However in expressing it, it is very obvious you do not know very much about what and why LEGITIMATE gun enthusisats do what they do and why they have "so many guns".

I thought I was done posting on this thread however I cannot let an incorrect comment (which may or may not be intended) pass.

So for the poster I will give one very small example. There is a sport in the USA and in many foeeign countris call Cowboy Action Shooting. It involves play actiong of the wild west days. We dress in period cowboy attire. We shoot what are called stages. Each stage is different and has targets that require the use of a long rifle, a sotgun and two "6 shooters". And yes we use real bullets. Diferent meets call for different guns. So this one example shows that one needs a minimum of four guns to participate. Most of us have two or three times that just for this sport. More than 100,000 members world wide. SShooting once per month at most clubs but enough clubs that one could shoot every weekend. Zero gun involved or related accidents.

That is just one sport. Many of us are involved in several other shooting sports which means even more guns.

Why do fisherman have more than one pole?
Why do tennis players have more than one raquet?
Why do golfers have way more clubs than are required to play the game?
And so on.
And on.
And on.

Millions of good people with millions of weapons enjoying the sports they enjoy.

And I will be :censored: if I will sit idly by and let people, too many of which have absolutely no idea what they are talking about....bad mouth what we do because of some 1% wacko and other reasons kill somebody.

IT IS NOT THE GUNS!!!!

My commentary above is not aimed at the poster. My example is in the hopes of educating.

I've read through most of these posts and it the same arguments. Reminds me of a Merry-Go-Round. A round and round we go. Look at the facts:

1) All these shootings occurred in a gun free zone by a mentally ill person. In all the cases the guns were legally obtained. Yep in a lot of cases they passed a background check.

2) Had the people had a chance to defend themselves or proper security was provided the out comes would have been different.

3) Its not the responsibility of the Government to make sure you are safe, its your responsibility.

4) There is not one suggestion made by those that promote gun legislation that would have prevented any of these tragedies.

5) The right to bare arms is guaranteed by the 2nd amendment of the constitution. There is nothing in there that says I can only have one weapon. Driving and other activities are not rights, but privileges. No mention in the constitution.

6) Switzerland issues a gun to every household. There are no mass shootings in Switzerland.

7)The most shootings are in places where there are very strict guns laws.

8) Criminals do not follow laws that is why they are criminals.

9) The weapons used are not assault weapons. They are semi-automatic rifles that are based on the frame of an assault weapon. They do not have the fire power of an assault weapon.

10) The current law does not allow you to make a living by selling guns at gun shows. This is a current law, its not enforced.


I could go on forever. This I know for a fact, it will happen again. It will happen again because the leadership of this country; first response; was to politicize the incident even before all the facts were known. I can understand the distrust because even though there is talk of no confiscation, the politicians are quick to bring up countries that have tried to solve their problem by confiscation. The current leadership is not interested in solving the problem, their interested in playing politics.

:agree: ... you summed it up perfectly. And yet, there will be those that want to do something, anything so that they can soothe the guilt of their failure to make more restrictive laws that they think could have kept these things from happening. And there are those that will use this to promote their agenda of more restrictive oversight, and more control for the nanny state. They will attempt to make laws that will punish the decent/honest gun owners and will do nothing to stop the criminal or the mentally ill.

Well done but two obvious mistakes.

Point 5 - "bare arms" would mean roling up your sleeves so your arms are not covered.

Point 6 - Switzerland does not issue guns to every household. Go to snopes.com and check it out. Good comparison between Honduras and Switzerland there, too.

Combat vets and gun control.
 

Combat Vets Destroy the NRA


I do worry about idiots with guns.

T

You are right on the money here!

Really? Your source is an incredibly biased story in an ultra liberal publication?

So they were able to find two combat veterans that support their position. Do you think that they could have found any with different opinions?

The Secret Service and Ronald Reagan's assassination attempt.
 

From the linked The Nation article:

Banning guns is not the answer. Creating more laws is not the answer. There are plenty of laws on the books now, most of which are enforced. Those only work for the responsible gun owners. Key word: Responsible.

I do not believe that these killings are totally a mental health issue. Like so many other crimes (purse snatchings, etc.), many are crimes of opportunity. Anyone who takes another's life, other than in self defense, has a mental problem whether diagnosed or not.

We rave about the illegals, the drug trafficking, prostitution, drunk driving, and the list goes on. There are laws there that are not obeyed, either. How did prohibition work out back in the 20's? It simply lead to the criminal element getting stronger and more crime against law-abiding citizens, law enforcement, and the other criminals in the same business of illegal booze. Ban guns and the criminal element will flourish. They would love nothing better.

People who want to kill will find a way. Gang members have no shortage of guns. How many of those were obtained legally? How many illegal knives (yes, there are laws governing knives) do they have? A kid back home was intentionally killed when another one used his dad's Cadillac to drive into some others and he didn't get away in time, but was then targeted even after he was down and hit again. The killer was from an affluent family and he and his buddies didn't agree with the "punk" look. Other examples from McVeigh on abound.

Ban the guns, crime will increase by whatever means a person choses. Take the guns and watch the bombings start cropping up for those intent on mass killing. They will find a way. Count on it.

Guns, knives, bombs, or whatever don't kill. People do.

Those in favor of more laws, restrictions or what ever....are they really proposing the organization that runs the post office, Amtrak, illegal immigration to have ANY effect on gun violence?

Right now there is selective enforcement of the gun laws and rules on the books, just like all the above. So just waht leads some to think there is a magic solution by imposing more laws and rules? Doesn't work anywhere else.

For those who might consider this political....that is not the intent....you are entitled to your opinion....right or wrong.

Thanks for the corrections. As I get older the mind is a terrible thing to waste. I think I got that waste part correct. Thanks for the snoops thing also I'll take a look. There are two other references one is by Bill Whittle and the other is a video by, I believe, a Harvard Econ. Professor who relates a story about one of his students from China who has a take on why Democracy worked here in America and why we are having these problems. Very interesting concept and it has to do with America becoming less religious oriented and leaning toward secularism. The Bill Whittle video uses 2012 statistics and I did check them and they were correct.

On another note. It appears the Mother knew her son had mental problems. In a number of these cases now there were people that knew there was a problem but did nothing. I personally have a story where I lost some one I knew at work but the family ignored the problem. One thing to remember if some one never owned a gun and all of a sudden buys one and if that person has a problem with depression, please intervene, this is a major red flag. I believe the answer is in each other not in government.

Really!
 

Let's see -
no background checks - I do believe that every time you buy an airline ticket Homeland Security is doing some kind of check on you just so you can get a boarding pass. Then you literally go through a scan to be able to get on the plane.
Finger printing - As I remember you have your finger print scanned just to get into Disney!
License / license fees - You do have a drivers license I'm guessing. To get that, the State of Florida does a search on you and you pay a license fee. If you play golf in The Villages you probably a golf cart path license fee.

I think maybe you've already been "infringed" on at least once.

Just guessing.

Your comparisons are a bit "apples to oranges". Driving requires resources that must be paid for and is a privilege and not a right. I haven't seen a "golf cart path license fee" in The Villages.

My second response to your kind post.

Thanks for the snopes reference. It was very good. I also found a few more articles. Here is what I took from reading them. Even though the Swiss have a gun culture, they also have a great support network in education of gun safety and familiarity, early introduction into guns, mental support, and a good economy. They have deep patriotic roots that realize that the weapon is what they need to protect themselves. Like I had said earlier and I believe the Swiss model supports my statement, the answer is not in regulations but with in ourselves.

I believe mass murders represent about 1% of gun deaths. While this is tragic, nearly two-thirds of the gun deaths are from suicide. We rarely hear anything about those deaths in the media. However, the one thing they both have in common is mental health.

From a media point of view, mass murders make better news and then politicians respond to the media coverage. That is one of the reasons we are where we are. By the way, I believe about 75% of the guns used in mass murders are pistols and less than 10% are semi-automatic rifles. Anyone wonder why the media focuses on semi-automatic rifles in their coverage? Just sayin ...

I do think the problem of gun violence can only be solved by people getting more involved in their communities. Mothers stood up to the gangs in Chicago and did make some headway. Neighbors did this by banding together. Mothers Help Curb Gun Violence in Troubled Chicago Neighborhood

How about we start with, "Parents need to be more involved with their children."

That was certainly one of the problems with the Oregon shooting as well as the CT one. Maybe with the Oregon one though the mother seemed to encourage the killer's obsession with guns of all kinds. Mother of Oregon College Shooter Wrote About Guns, Autism - NBC News

Guns should be at least as regulated as autos.
Registered, licensed with every two year renewal , Liability insurance,
plus if you have any previous crimes (not just felonies) NO GUN for you!
The penalties for violation of the above should be draconian!
Jail time manditory!
Commit a crime with a gun and it's life in prison!
This will stop the average criminal cold.

If the media stopped reporting the names, ages and addresses of these disturbed shooters maybe there would be less of it. Many idolize those that committed these mass shootings before them and they want the world to know their names also.

It all comes down to background checks before you are allowed to have children. Why not start at the beginning? Yes, I am being facetious. You are not going to resolve this problem with background checks and mental screening. It won't work and both are expensive, if they are effective.

The only/ONLY answer besides giving your child the best raising you can, is to allow more folks to carry and less gun free zones. If you get rid of gun free zones, there is less likely going to be a mass killing in those areas that were safe for the wacko. More folks carrying will mean that if someone is crazy enough to start firing in a crowd, someone will take him down before he kills more than one or two in the crowd. Much better than ten or twenty. That takes care of the wackos.
To hinder drive by shootings and robberies, enforce strict penalties. Anyone perpetrating a crime using a gun will automatically get life in prison or death if anyone was killed. Why so strict? Because if a person is using a gun in a crime, he is prepared to use it and if he is shot, it's his own fault. No one else's fault. This would work as a deterrent.
That takes care of the wackos and the career criminal.
You can't do ANYTHING about the suicides because you will never know if that person is depressed in time. And about 51% or more of the gun related deaths are suicides. They aren't bothering anyone so leave them alone. Good news women, men are four or five times more likely to commit suicide. Good news young people, most suicides are of ages 45 to 65 years old. There's hope for Social Security longevity after all.

Solution: More guns and less gun free zones.

So, other than polishing up and enforcing our existing gun related laws, there's nothing legislatively that can be done to lower the statistics.

These are insane thoughts. Bet you never owned a gun.

Liability Insurance? Some do have this insurance to cover attorney fees should they be involved is a self defense shooting but that is not going to do anything. Mass murder's probably don't even have auto insurance.

Register & License your gun. May be but again Criminals are not going to do that and it will not stop mass murders.

If you committed ANY previous crimes no gun? Like a parking ticket or speeding ticket? Really.

Commit a crime with a gun jail time mandatory. That make sense. Life in prison? We could not afford to build that many prisons. We are letting felons by the thousands out now. Better we just shoot them with their gun.

No matter what you can not legislate away things like murder or mass murder.
Again criminals and crazy people do not follow laws. Only the good honest people do and they are not going to shoot you!

I think we are in snow up to the axle with the pedal to the floor....going no place!

:popcorn::popcorn:

This is why the authors of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights wrote the 2nd amendment. We now have generations of people with little knowledge or understanding, and therefore, little respect for the importance of individual rights, among those rights, the God given right to self protection. We have people, who should know better, actually equate the right to self protection with driving a car, or going to Disney World, and actually ignoring the 2nd A wording of "shall not be infringed". We live in a society that willingly gives up personal freedoms such as right to privacy, to bear arms, free speech, freedom of religion, for what? Safety, or at least a "feeling" of safety. This is the new America, where everyone gets a trophy, and the masses want the government to provide cradle to grave care. But guess what? These people that want to take everyone's guns will be begging for someone to rescue them when they are about to become a victim of some predator. When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

You really can't enforce registration/licensing and insurance. Guns are not like cars, which you can easily see someone driving on the roads. Are you going to start searching people's homes for unregistered guns? Guns are a right, driving is a privilege. What is ironic is talking about this stuff increases gun sales. Obama is a great gun salesman.

Is it simply perception that we have so many gun deaths in the US?

A 2011 UN report said that we have 5 gun killings per 100,000 citizens. that same report shows that Switzerland, which is considered to have one of the lowest gun deaths, has .5 per 100,000. I realize that that is ten times greater, but when an amount is such a small sampling of the whole, the difference is insignificant. It should also be mentioned that about 70% of all gun deaths in the US were suicides and a small percentage were accidents or justified killings such as self defense. So it appears that we have about 1.5 deaths per 100,000 citizens by aggression by gun.

Look at it this way. If you were buying a house for $100,000 and I offered you a discount of $.50 and someone else offered you a discount of $5.00 for a similar house, would a discount of ten times have any any bearing on your decision?

The US is actually about in the middle of a chart listing various country's gun deaths per 100,000. Honduras is near the top with about 64 yet are 87th in guns owned per capita. Switzerland is fourth in gun's owned per capita yet is near the bottom of the list of gun deaths per capita.

I think that the fact that we had these crazy mass shootings gives the perception that we've got millions of people running around shooting each other. We have the highest number of guns owned per capita of any country in the world, yet we are in the middle of the number of guns deaths per capita.

There doesn't seem to be a correlation in the number of guns owned per capita and the number of gun related deaths per capita.

Five easy steps to ban guns!
 

Want to create a gun-free America in 5 easy steps?

Here's all there is to it:

Step 1: Elect. For a gun-free America, the first thing you'll need is two-thirds of Congress. So elect a minimum of 67 Senators and 290 Representatives who are on your side.

Step 2: Propose. Then, have them vote to propose an amendment to the Constitution which repeals Second Amendment gun rights for all Americans.

Step 3: Ratify. Then convince the legislators of 38 states to ratify that change.

At this point, the Second Amendment is history, but you've done nothing to decrease gun violence. All you've done is remove the barrier for Congress to act.

Step 4: Legislate. You need to enact "common sense" reform.

You can try to do what Australia did and...ban all guns? That's not at all what they did, but whatever, **** it. Go big or go home, right?

It will have to be passed by Congress and signed by the president.

Great! The law is passed and guns are now illegal. The only thing left to do is...

Step 5: Enforce. Guns won't just disappear because you passed a law. You need to confiscate some 350 million guns scattered among 330 Million Americans.

Sure, you can try a buy-back program like Australia, but like Australia that will still leave behind anywhere from 60 percent to 80 percent of privately owned firearms.

The rest you have to take.

You'll need the police, the FBI, the ATF or the National Guard—all known for their nuanced approach to potentially dangerous situations—to go door-to-door, through 3.8 million square miles of this country and take guns, by force, from thousands, if not, millions of well-armed individuals. Many of whom would rather start a civil war than acquiesce.

So inevitably gun violence, which is currently at a historic low, will skyrocket!

But that is how you get a gun-free America in five easy steps.

Of course we would have Historic Violence and Gun Deaths in this country if that is ever attempted. Vote wisely my friend. :police:

Common Sense
 

It is interesting to see so many varying opinions regarding firearms ownership. To some extent this probably reflects that TV people come from so many varied areas of the country.

THE FACT IS that if I waved a magic wand at 8AM tomorrow and every firearm in the country disappeared except for those held by police and the military, by 8AM the next day there would be thousands of guns in the hands of criminals. They would get them by assaulting police and taking their guns; by burglarizing the homes of police and taking their guns; or by burglarizing military armories and taking their guns.

There would also become a major industry of smuggling guns into the country. Drug runners would become gun runners.

CRIMINALS WILL HAVE GUNS.

There is only a partial solution to the problem of mass shootings at schools. That solution is DO AWAY WITH "GUN FREE ZONES." It is incredibly stupid to let an unbalanced potential mass killer know in advance where he is least likely to encounter armed resistance.

THE BEST WAY TO STOP A BAD GUY WITH A GUN IS WITH A GOOD GUY WITH A GUN.

(Trust me. I have around 40 years in law enforcement, and have been in multiple gun fights.......always won.)

Well said Carl. I solute you! :BigApplause:

Thanx Carl. That should provide some food for thought for those who in fact are seeking the magic wand!!

Which countries do not allow ownership of handguns?

I think removing all traces of God, prayer and the ten commandments from public buildings (including schools) prepared the way for the mass shooting trend and our down-hill slide. The tide has turned to where the religious are considered nut-cases, ignorant, superstitious and worse.

And the saddest part of the whole continuous downsliding is:

those of us that still have and believe in the core values, religion and respect for others....ARE THE MAJORITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That means the constitution is working. Public indicates a place meant for all Americas citizens and MUST not show favoritism to any single religion. You can't believe in the U.S. Constitution and also a one religion society. The Middle East operates that way. HELLO!

Ever heard of car accidents where one of the cars was unregistered and uninsured?

Ever heard of crimes being committed and getaways being made in stolen cars?

I would guess that most crimes committed involving cars are done with stolen or unregistered, uninsured cars.

Is the solution to make it more difficult for good, responsible, law abiding people to get proper registration and insurance?

Maybe it's time we thought about banning or limiting cars. Less cars on the roads would mean fewer deaths. It's perfect logic.

There are over two and a half times as many alcohol related deaths in this country every year. Do we blame the alcohol for this?

Should we start a process where we would have to register to buy alcohol? Should every adult over the age of 21 be required to carry alcohol liability insurance? Should we create more laws that make it more difficult for good, responsible, law abiding people to get alcohol?

I don't think that most people disagree with background checks. Do we not have laws on the books that prevent people with mental health issues from legally buying guns? Are new laws required to prevent this?

I, and I think that many people who believe in the right to bear arms, have no problem with doing something about gun show sales. But I think that this could be handled by enforcing current laws without creating new ones.

If there was an armed person in that room, IMHO, for him not to return fire was irresponsible. Yes, there was a chance that someone could have been hit by cross fire, but by doing nothing, it was guaranteed that the shooter would kill more people. In situation like that nothing is guaranteed if action is taken, but the possibly exists of stopping the shooter and preventing more deaths and injuries. The outcome however, is guaranteed if no action is taken there is no possibility of stopping the shooter.

Good guys with guns did finally stop the shooter. The bad guy eventually took his own life, but only after a shoot out with police. Had the police not arrived (with guns) who knows how many more people would have died.

Hillary's 'Gun Show Loophole' Proposal Is A Joke

This is interesting.

From the news today.....

St. Petersburg, Florida — Is it a sign of the wild, wild West, or your constitutional right?

Today, a Florida House committee approved a bill to allow open carry in the Sunshine State.

So it passed the first round.

Florida is one of only five states and the District of Columbia that don't allow any type of open carry. That could change.

Map: Where Is

You would have figured Florida and South Carolina would have had this a long time ago.