Originally Posted by B767drvr (Post 929367)

Just trying to follow the logic… right now teachers aren't paid enough and apparently we need to pay more to get the best, brightest, and most highly motivated.


THEREFORE, currently we're employing something less than the best and brightest (otherwise why would we need to pay more?)

Originally Posted by blueash (Post 929270)

Tenure is there to protect good teachers from the whims of politicians, parents, donors, and prejudice. Prior to tenure it was common for a new administrator to fire teachers just to bring in his own team, parents to use their economic or social power to threaten teachers if they did not give their child an excellent grade, and especially donors to colleges who wanted to get rid of Professor Darwin for his heresy as a theoretical example with a bribe to the administration of a new building. It was strongly felt that teachers needed to be fair equally to rich and poor and free to teach within the parameters of the local laws, as they saw fit. Does an English teacher have every parent's ok to use Slaughterhouse Five, or Huckleberry Finn? Once the teacher has been hired, and vetted as an effective teacher (obviously there can be problems with that process) they are given job security to not be constantly threatened with termination without cause. It is a small incentive to get good and great people to go into a profession that now often requires a master's degree and pays about the same as a paralegal which requires a few months training after high school. But I know, never miss a chance to bash teachers. There are problems with the tenure system and it is worthwhile addressing those issues.

Teacher Tenure - ProCon.org for a balanced discussion of this issue. If the OP wants to know why teachers get tenure rather than just vent opposition then I would suggest a simple google search using the term "why do teachers get tenure" It results in over 7 million hits. Some are helpful to explain the history of why.

Originally Posted by Laurie2 (Post 929388)

Thank you.

Also, the website you linked is excellent for anybody interested in having good information to think through, rather than simply declaring open season, without even trying or wanting to see the big picture.

Originally Posted by graciegirl (Post 929274)

Blueash...tenure has nothing to do with what is taught and what isn't taught. I don't see anyone bashing teachers. All dedicated teachers want to teach with other dedicated teachers.

Originally Posted by waynet (Post 929530)

I can't believe anyone would teach in todays climate. The crap from administrators,from state boards of ed. and from the parents whose child is never to blame for anything. And from people who think they know about teaching but really know nothing about the profession. They could not pay me enough to teach and this is what many young people are saying.

Originally Posted by pbkmaine (Post 929543)

Originally Posted by waynet (Post 929530)

I can't believe anyone would teach in todays climate. The crap from administrators,from state boards of ed. and from the parents whose child is never to blame for anything. And from people who think they know about teaching but really know nothing about the profession. They could not pay me enough to teach and this is what many young people are saying.

Originally Posted by Cedwards38 (Post 930032)

Tenure for teachers simply means that you can not be fired except for cause. It typically takes three to four years of evaluation to earn tenure. It was created decades ago because teachers had no protection when a new school board or superintendent came into office and only employed those who supported them in the last election. Teachers would be routinely dismissed and replaced with the supporters, regardless of their performance.

If someone tells you that a tenured teacher can not be fired, then they do not understand the concept. You can fire a tenured teacher, but you must first inform the teacher of their sub par performance, give them an opportunity to correct, and then if it doesn't improve they may be fired. Tenure simply keeps politics out of teacher hiring and evaluation and focuses it on performance.

I was a teacher and school administrator for 30 years, and I've been tenured and I've dismissed the tenured. School administrators who whine that the tenured can not be dismissed are simply too lazy or too cowardly or too stupid to do what is required. My experience is that the unions can not protect an incompetent teacher, though they always try because that is their job.