A Word to the Gun Ban Crowd

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  #16  
Old 05-21-2018, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ColdNoMore View Post
The link was in regards to the Chris Fox statement about her assault weapons ban. I was referring to:

"Banning guns addresses a fundamental right of Americans to feel safe."

Dianne Feinstein (US Senator, D-CA); quoted by the Associated Press Newswire, 1993-11-18

and there is also:

"The national guard fulfills the the militia mentioned in the Second Amendment. Citizens no longer need to protect the states or themselves."

Dianne Feinstein (US Senator, D-CA)

And I will also add in this quote from Bobby Rush, U.S. Representative from Illinois:

“My staff and I right now are working on a comprehensive gun-control bill. We don’t have all the details, but for instance, regulating the sale and purchase of bullets. Ultimately, I would like to see the manufacture and possession of handguns banned except for military and police use. But that’s the endgame. And in the meantime, there are some specific things that we can do with legislation.” Chicago Tribune, December 5, 1999

By the by, still haven't seen what new gun laws will prevent the school shootings.
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Old 05-21-2018, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 View Post
Right on target. Practical approaches to gun control for the US. Crippling lawsuits against arms manufacturers would be a solution as that worked with tobacco for a while. They have modified the manufacture of tobacco quite but that is to be expected as where there is a need people find a way of fulfilling it like with booze and the prohibition.

Stop the sale of guns in gun shows unless they are very heavily regulated.

Get rid of the sale of guns that any reasonable person would see as a battlefield weapon.
So you are in favor of an all out ban then because the military carries everything from a 9mm pistol, 12ga shotgun, bolt action rifle and semiautomatic rifle into combat.

Here's a list of individual served weapons of the U.S. military. It covers every category of weapon commonly owned by the general public. List of individual weapons of the U.S. Armed Forces - Wikipedia
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Old 05-21-2018, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 View Post
Right on target. Practical approaches to gun control for the US. Crippling lawsuits against arms manufacturers would be a solution as that worked with tobacco for a while. They have modified the manufacture of tobacco quite but that is to be expected as where there is a need people find a way of fulfilling it like with booze and the prohibition.

Stop the sale of guns in gun shows unless they are very heavily regulated.

Get rid of the sale of guns that any reasonable person would see as a battlefield weapon.
And who would that be?
I know!!! Any one of the 99% of law abiding gun owners in the USA.
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Old 05-21-2018, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 View Post
Right on target. Practical approaches to gun control for the US. Crippling lawsuits against arms manufacturers would be a solution as that worked with tobacco for a while. They have modified the manufacture of tobacco quite but that is to be expected as where there is a need people find a way of fulfilling it like with booze and the prohibition.

Stop the sale of guns in gun shows unless they are very heavily regulated.

Get rid of the sale of guns that any reasonable person would see as a battlefield weapon.
Please elaborate at to what "very heavily regulated" entails?
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Old 05-21-2018, 11:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl in Tampa View Post
Every time there is a mass shooting, the same old sides divide up and expostulate about their proposed solutions for preventing future shootings.

Today, I hope to bring a degree of rational realization about the real world to the Gun Ban crowd.

But first, let us play a "what if" game. Pretend with me that I have a magic wand that will allow me to simply wave it and at Noon tomorrow every gun in America that is not possessed by a law enforcement officer or a member of the military will disappear forever.

That's at Noon. By Midnight there will be thousands of guns in criminal hands across America, and a thriving Black Market for the sale and purchase of these guns will be in place.

How can this happen, you ask. It's simple. Individual police officers will be assaulted, knifed, of killed, in order to take their sidearms, and their cars will be broken into to obtain their rifles or shotguns.

Also, National Guard Armories will be burglarized to obtain weapons of war, and rogue military custodians of similar articles will be selling them. (There is a Black Market for hand grenades.)

Now, enough of fantasy. Assume that a law were to be passed banning personal possession of firearms, which is so unlikely that it might be considered fantasy. But, if such a law were to be passed, there are multi-millions of firearms that would not be turned in for destruction. They would enter the underground Black Market economy and there are not enough police officers in the United States to effectively monitor or enforce such a ban.

So, face it --- you cannot rid America of guns.

Aha, the anti-gunners respond. At least we can ban “assault weapons” and “high capacity magazines.” We can make the remaining guns be less effective killing machines.

Well, not really.

Did you ever hear of Sgt. Alvin York? While a Corporal in World War I, he was credited with killing at least 25 German soldiers in a confrontation where they were trying to kill him. He was armed with a bolt action rifle adopted by the Army in 1903 and capable of firing only five rounds before being reloaded.

And, in addition there is still that pesky Second Amendment. People are entitled to own firearms as a right of the individual. The Supreme Court says so.

SO, please put your brains in gear and start thinking of some creative ways to prevent shootings at schools, or to mitigate their effects when they do occur. No solution is going to be 100% effective, but we need to work together in developing new ideas for school security.

Gun bans is not the answer.

Thank you for your logic and insight. I might add another thought on those wanting to ban firearms. Remember the words in the '50's song, "Robbing people with a zipgun..." ? I remember zipguns, homemade out of common materials. Smuggling of guns would just add to the coffers of the drug smugglers, too. Killers will always get guns somehow when guns are their weapons of choice.
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  #21  
Old 05-21-2018, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by chuckinca View Post
Simple

Ban all Guns.


When is this slaughter going to end?


.
Murder and street drugs are already banned. How's that working out? Oh, that's right; it's not!
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  #22  
Old 05-22-2018, 04:21 AM
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There are no easy solutions. There are no compromises that will make either side happy. Almost total banning of guns has worked in other nations. Not so sure it would work here. Some things I would like to see are stricter and more thorough background checks, no bump stocks allowed, no military grade “assault” type weapons in the hands of common citizens, no metal-piercing bullets, serious gun training and testing for all who buy weapons. Anyone convicted of a DUI should be banned from owning guns — if you can’t stop yourself from getting behind the wheel of your car while high, you really can’t be trusted to keep nor use a gun safely in my mind.

Parents that allow easy access to weapons should face the exact same charges as their children. You know your kids and, if you don’t, shame on you. Check their social media. Know what games they are playing and restrict access to those games you deem inappropriate. Ditto for movies and television programs.

The idea of metal detectors, armed guards, etc. at schools nauseates me. However, there is no denying it has become a necessity. Our children deserve to be feel safe at school. So, do what it takes to make that happen NOW.

I’m tired of hearing about kids shooting kids because a gun was left laying around. I’m sick of drive by killings. I’m really sick and tired of school shootings. Get the media to quit publicizing names and photos of shooters. The story can be told without that information.

There are things we can and should do today. First and foremost, PROTECT OUR CHILDREN.
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Old 05-22-2018, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by redwitch View Post
There are no easy solutions. There are no compromises that will make either side happy. Almost total banning of guns has worked in other nations. Not so sure it would work here. Some things I would like to see are stricter and more thorough background checks, no bump stocks allowed, no military grade “assault” type weapons in the hands of common citizens, no metal-piercing bullets, serious gun training and testing for all who buy weapons. Anyone convicted of a DUI should be banned from owning guns — if you can’t stop yourself from getting behind the wheel of your car while high, you really can’t be trusted to keep nor use a gun safely in my mind.

Parents that allow easy access to weapons should face the exact same charges as their children. You know your kids and, if you don’t, shame on you. Check their social media. Know what games they are playing and restrict access to those games you deem inappropriate. Ditto for movies and television programs.

The idea of metal detectors, armed guards, etc. at schools nauseates me. However, there is no denying it has become a necessity. Our children deserve to be feel safe at school. So, do what it takes to make that happen NOW.

I’m tired of hearing about kids shooting kids because a gun was left laying around. I’m sick of drive by killings. I’m really sick and tired of school shootings. Get the media to quit publicizing names and photos of shooters. The story can be told without that information.

There are things we can and should do today. First and foremost, PROTECT OUR CHILDREN.

  #24  
Old 05-22-2018, 06:48 AM
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Default Freedom of the Press.

We have Freedom of the Press so I do not believe that the focus on the shooter will subside. At least, they are spending a lot more press time on the survivors/victims and their families.
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Old 05-22-2018, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwitch View Post
There are no easy solutions. There are no compromises that will make either side happy. Almost total banning of guns has worked in other nations. Not so sure it would work here. Some things I would like to see are stricter and more thorough background checks, no bump stocks allowed, no military grade “assault” type weapons in the hands of common citizens, no metal-piercing bullets, serious gun training and testing for all who buy weapons. Anyone convicted of a DUI should be banned from owning guns — if you can’t stop yourself from getting behind the wheel of your car while high, you really can’t be trusted to keep nor use a gun safely in my mind.

Parents that allow easy access to weapons should face the exact same charges as their children. You know your kids and, if you don’t, shame on you. Check their social media. Know what games they are playing and restrict access to those games you deem inappropriate. Ditto for movies and television programs.

The idea of metal detectors, armed guards, etc. at schools nauseates me. However, there is no denying it has become a necessity. Our children deserve to be feel safe at school. So, do what it takes to make that happen NOW.

I’m tired of hearing about kids shooting kids because a gun was left laying around. I’m sick of drive by killings. I’m really sick and tired of school shootings. Get the media to quit publicizing names and photos of shooters. The story can be told without that information.

There are things we can and should do today. First and foremost, PROTECT OUR CHILDREN.
Having traveled all over the world, I only know of one place where a gun ban works. Singapore. And that is because if you are caught with a gun, or drugs, or committing a violent crime you are tried and executed within a few days. So couple that with a gun ban and maybe I could support it.

Most other places with less harsh punishment, gun bans have failed miserably. And none of that will solve the problem of crazies who want to kill someone. They will use a knife, a bomb, a car, something else.

Also would need to ban lathes, drills, all items to make gun powder, and several other things. Give me a basic machine shop and I can build a gun in less then 4 hours.
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Old 05-22-2018, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taltarzac725 View Post
We have Freedom of the Press so I do not believe that the focus on the shooter will subside. At least, they are spending a lot more press time on the survivors/victims and their families.
But if enough people let their broadcasters and editors know they don’t want names publicized, the more the media will listen. We can talk with a button on the remote and a cancellation of newspapers and websites that give those names and show those pictures. We can boycott advertisers until they get message. If enough talk, the media will listen — there may and should be freedom of the press but news ain’t free.
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Old 05-22-2018, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by l2ridehd View Post
Having traveled all over the world, I only know of one place where a gun ban works. Singapore. And that is because if you are caught with a gun, or drugs, or committing a violent crime you are tried and executed within a few days. So couple that with a gun ban and maybe I could support it.

Most other places with less harsh punishment, gun bans have failed miserably. And none of that will solve the problem of crazies who want to kill someone. They will use a knife, a bomb, a car, something else
Try Australia, Denmark, Sweden for a start.

I think Oz may actually have a similar culture to ours regarding the wild, Wild West attitude and adulation (why I don’t think gun laws would work here) but they’ve managed to ban guns except for farmers. Their last mass killing by gun was a murder-suicide on a farm this year. There have been a few stranger killings between 1996 and today (a car plowed into a crowd, a university shooting and a hostage situation — all I can remember at the top of my head). John Howard, the PM in 1996, flat out said he didn’t want Australia following in America’s footsteps. So, not a perfect record but a heck of a lot better than ours. Their children are not being murdered on a regular basis.
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Old 05-22-2018, 08:14 AM
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I don't believe the "Gun Ban" group is a crowd. I believe the gun control and regulation crowd, and those who want to remove military assault rifles from the streets of America are huge.
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Old 05-22-2018, 08:24 AM
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Agree Carl 100%.
It's a sad fact though how this country and others have deteriorated to the point people have to be armed
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Old 05-22-2018, 08:45 AM
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I don't own a gun. Never have, and I don't believe I ever will. Generally speaking, I would like to see certain weapons done away with. But, here is where I get stuck on that:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

I am not sure how a well regulated militia can be formed without "militia" weapons. I seems that the framers wanted us to be able to put up a good fight if needed. The price of that, just like any of our rights, is misuse by someone who wants to bring harm to others.

It is indeed a complicated and difficult issue. Guns have always been a part of our society. Like horses we see them as an important part of how we came to be the land that we love. Some places have no guns, and they eat horses. We have guns, and would never eat a horse.

No easy answers here. Certainly, no quick answers.
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