[Bandb875]

The title is from todays commentary from Jackie Cushman. Please read her thoughts, Daily Sun, page A22. I see a challenge and perhaps a pathway to reconciliation in her words. She encourages face to face communication, reminding us that listening is a major part of communication. I think she is on to something. I have tried, via FB, to engage civil conversation with friends that have a different opinion concerning the state of our country. I failed. Might I suggest that small group (2 from each side) meeting could be a start. Something like the dating service "it's only lunch". I'm not the leader type, but I know leaders are in The Villages, maybe one can pick up the ball and organize the first session. Jackie Cushman ended her commentary with "While it might be easier to stay within our own echo chambers, it only magnifies the gap in understanding." We need to do this ourselves, politicians won't.

[Love2Swim]

I think part of the problem people are so far apart, is that they seem unable to discern what is fact and what is fiction. To intelligently discuss issues, you have to be coming from a factual position. Trying to discuss anything with people who believe strongly in conspiracy theories, just because they saw something on the internet somewhere, is a waste of time. Pizzagate is a prime example, which led to attempts at vigilante justice based on falsehoods. The recent violence at our nation's capitol is another example.

[Bandb875]

These are supercharged times. Meeting and talking with others should start with the acknowledgement that we disagree on fact and fiction and accept that. Anything to diffuse the situation. No one should expect, or even try, to change someones mind. Try to find some common ground, if nothing else you both decided to live in The Villages.

[Dana1963]

Originally Posted by Bandb875

The title is from todays commentary from Jackie Cushman. Please read her thoughts, Daily Sun, page A22. I see a challenge and perhaps a pathway to reconciliation in her words. She encourages face to face communication, reminding us that listening is a major part of communication. I think she is on to something. I have tried, via FB, to engage civil conversation with friends that have a different opinion concerning the state of our country. I failed. Might I suggest that small group (2 from each side) meeting could be a start. Something like the dating service "it's only lunch". I'm not the leader type, but I know leaders are in The Villages, maybe one can pick up the ball and organize the first session. Jackie Cushman ended her commentary with "While it might be easier to stay within our own echo chambers, it only magnifies the gap in understanding." We need to do this ourselves, politicians won't.

Leave Politics and Religion out of conversations and everything could be better.

[dewilson58]

Originally Posted by Dana1963

Leave Politics and Religion out of conversations and everything could be better.

Agree, but I think the politics are what got us here.

My girlfriend and I are on both sides of this divide. We do talk about current events and give our take on each issue. What surprised me the most is how the "facts" are feed to the masses. The double standards and misleading or omissions of certain facts to promote ones agenda. Eventhough my side of this divide came out on top this time around I do feel disappointed in they way my side behaved and attempts to destroy the losing side at every opportunity. I feel bad for my girlfriend and how she feels about my side. I could be wrong but I think most Americans are in the middle on most issues and it's the extreme views on both sides that get all of the limelight from the media? A sensible approach to the issues is possible if you get away from the influence of the media. This type of discussion works for us. It's only when the conspiracy theories and "us against them" feelings surface that the conversation ends. I haven't found a way to augment the reality she has found herself in and so I just it go. Until you get away from the echo chamber on either side you'll never hear the "sound of silence" (my favorite song). This song was written around 50 years ago? Proof that the talking heads have been at this game for many generations and have become masters at manipulating the population.

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by Bikeracer2009

My girlfriend and I are on both sides of this divide. We do talk about current events and give our take on each issue. What surprised me the most is how the "facts" are feed to the masses. The double standards and misleading or omissions of certain facts to promote ones agenda. Eventhough my side of this divide came out on top this time around I do feel disappointed in they way my side behaved and attempts to destroy the losing side at every opportunity. I feel bad for my girlfriend and how she feels about my side. I could be wrong but I think most Americans are in the middle on most issues and it's the extreme views on both sides that get all of the limelight from the media? A sensible approach to the issues is possible if you get away from the influence of the media. This type of discussion works for us. It's only when the conspiracy theories and "us against them" feelings surface that the conversation ends. I haven't found a way to augment the reality she has found herself in and so I just it go. Until you get away from the echo chamber on either side you'll never hear the "sound of silence" (my favorite song). This song was written around 50 years ago? Proof that the talking heads have been at this game for many generations and have become masters at manipulating the population.

So, you think you’re right and she’s wrong cause you listen to you’re side? She can say the same thing about you’re reality side?

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by Love2Swim

I think part of the problem people are so far apart, is that they seem unable to discern what is fact and what is fiction. To intelligently discuss issues, you have to be coming from a factual position. Trying to discuss anything with people who believe strongly in conspiracy theories, just because they saw something on the internet somewhere, is a waste of time. Pizzagate is a prime example, which led to attempts at vigilante justice based on falsehoods. The recent violence at our nation's capitol is another example.

Let's compare apples and apples...here. I think BLM is a propaganda program not at all based on acceptance and kindness and helpfulness and I think the violence this summer, the burning, the breaking the looting is an example of it. If it's sauce for the goose than it's sauce for the gander. Breaking and destroying and stealing is never, EVER right. Your political activism is NOT justified in the halls of congress nor in the streets where people have their businesses that feed and support them and their workers.

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by Love2Swim

I think part of the problem people are so far apart, is that they seem unable to discern what is fact and what is fiction. To intelligently discuss issues, you have to be coming from a factual position. Trying to discuss anything with people who believe strongly in conspiracy theories, just because they saw something on the internet somewhere, is a waste of time. Pizzagate is a prime example, which led to attempts at vigilante justice based on falsehoods. The recent violence at our nation's capitol is another example.

You are so correct.

Differences of opinion can always be worked out.

HOWEVER, if the parties are working from two sets of facts, then A. One is lying and B. No chance of getting anywhere in that discussion.

I do also strongly agree that the sudden "mainstreaming" of so many conspiracy theories is.....well infuriating to me....but those who actually believe this crap, and it is crap, are in what is referred to as la la land and need professional help.

Used to be the facts were not skewed for any reason, and discussions on opinions were civil.

It simply amazes me that the Internet created, or certainly mainstreamed these theories (used to laugh at those National Enquirer stories) but today millions believe anything.

Anyway the internet gave these things validity with easily conned people, YET the real facts are so close by and easily had.

Not sure what that says about some people, but it sure as hades is ripping us apart.

I post on another forum, that requires you before accepting your new thread that you supply credible links to establish your own credibility and that what you offer the group is TRUE, and FACTUAL.

Makes for reasonable, intelligent discussions, not shrieking lying.

Bottom line....how can you have an adult discussion on any issue when you don't have all the facts, and seem to be very comfortable living with lies and liars. And yes, there are issues that the facts are blurry, but none that began in a pizza parlor with pedophiles, yet we have so called "leaders" that worship in that house.

[Mleeja]

Originally Posted by Bucco

You are so correct.

Differences of opinion can always be worked out.

HOWEVER, if the parties are working from two sets of facts, then A. One is lying and B. No chance of getting anywhere in that discussion.

I do also strongly agree that the sudden "mainstreaming" of so many conspiracy theories is.....well infuriating to me....but those who actually believe this crap, and it is crap, are in what is referred to as la la land and need professional help.

Used to be the facts were not skewed for any reason, and discussions on opinions were civil.

It simply amazes me that the Internet created, or certainly mainstreamed these theories (used to laugh at those National Enquirer stories) but today millions believe anything.

Anyway the internet gave these things validity with easily conned people, YET the real facts are so close by and easily had.

Not sure what that says about some people, but it sure as hades is ripping us apart.

I post on another forum, that requires you before accepting your new thread that you supply credible links to establish your own credibility and that what you offer the group is TRUE, and FACTUAL.

Makes for reasonable, intelligent discussions, not shrieking lying.

Bottom line....how can you have an adult discussion on any issue when you don't have all the facts, and seem to be very comfortable living with lies and liars. And yes, there are issues that the facts are blurry, but none that began in a pizza parlor with pedophiles, yet we have so called "leaders" that worship in that house.

But where do you get your facts? The mainstream media is biased. Cable news cannot be trusted. A news report from Fox and one from CNN based on a similar set of facts can be completely opposite. Who is right? It will probably depend on how you view the world. Are you going to change your opinion just because I present the facts in a different format? I am inclined not to think so.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by Mleeja

But where do you get your facts? The mainstream media is biased. Cable news cannot be trusted. A news report from Fox and one from CNN based on a similar set of facts can be completely opposite. Who is right? It will probably depend on how you view the world. Are you going to change your opinion just because I present the facts in a different format? I am inclined not to think so.

You're referring to people talking ABOUT the news. You're not talking about the ACTUAL news. Yes, people will say what they want to say, and push their own agenda, and lie, and make things up, etc. etc.

But when the camera is on Mr. Smith, and it's "live" (meaning happening WHILE you are watching, not taped, recorded, and played back some other time)...

You can trust that whatever you see Mr. Smith say and do, he really IS saying and doing it. Even if Nancy Newsreporter says he never said that - you saw him and heard him say it LIVE. If Jimbob Anchorman says "yes he said that but he meant..." some other thing - you know you watched it happen LIVE, and know darned well what Mr. Smith meant when he said it.

If people would just stop talking about "people who talk ABOUT the news" and pay closer attention to the news itself, you'd have a lot less people whining about how they can't trust the media and a lot more opportunity for civil discourse.

Originally Posted by Topspinmo

So, you think you’re right and she’s wrong cause you listen to you’re side? She can say the same thing about you’re reality side?

Yes

No

[Bucco]

Originally Posted by OrangeBlossomBaby

You're referring to people talking ABOUT the news. You're not talking about the ACTUAL news. Yes, people will say what they want to say, and push their own agenda, and lie, and make things up, etc. etc.

But when the camera is on Mr. Smith, and it's "live" (meaning happening WHILE you are watching, not taped, recorded, and played back some other time)...

You can trust that whatever you see Mr. Smith say and do, he really IS saying and doing it. Even if Nancy Newsreporter says he never said that - you saw him and heard him say it LIVE. If Jimbob Anchorman says "yes he said that but he meant..." some other thing - you know you watched it happen LIVE, and know darned well what Mr. Smith meant when he said it.

If people would just stop talking about "people who talk ABOUT the news" and pay closer attention to the news itself, you'd have a lot less people whining about how they can't trust the media and a lot more opportunity for civil discourse.

I am always struck by newscasts being maligned and supposedly "made up" including those taped segments of a person actually saying what made it news. Of course most of those who say those things actually believe the conspiracy theories.

A writer who i find very astute, William Saletan, in his series on this kind of discussion says..

"But to make those debates productive, and to correct our country’s mistakes—failed projects, naïve policies, bad wars—we need a common standard for judging truth. That standard can’t be the Bible or identity politics. It has to be the standard we apply in daily life: evidence. If you say the election was stolen, you have to prove it in court. If you accuse a police officer of murder, your story has to withstand investigation."

[ejp52]

Where was the unity and working together the last 4 years???

[Topspinmo]

Originally Posted by Bucco

You are so correct.

Differences of opinion can always be worked out.

HOWEVER, if the parties are working from two sets of facts, then A. One is lying and B. No chance of getting anywhere in that discussion.

I do also strongly agree that the sudden "mainstreaming" of so many conspiracy theories is.....well infuriating to me....but those who actually believe this crap, and it is crap, are in what is referred to as la la land and need professional help.

Used to be the facts were not skewed for any reason, and discussions on opinions were civil.

It simply amazes me that the Internet created, or certainly mainstreamed these theories (used to laugh at those National Enquirer stories) but today millions believe anything.

Anyway the internet gave these things validity with easily conned people, YET the real facts are so close by and easily had.

Not sure what that says about some people, but it sure as hades is ripping us apart.

I post on another forum, that requires you before accepting your new thread that you supply credible links to establish your own credibility and that what you offer the group is TRUE, and FACTUAL.

Makes for reasonable, intelligent discussions, not shrieking lying.

Bottom line....how can you have an adult discussion on any issue when you don't have all the facts, and seem to be very comfortable living with lies and liars. And yes, there are issues that the facts are blurry, but none that began in a pizza parlor with pedophiles, yet we have so called "leaders" that worship in that house.

Unless they’re there and seen the facts they were told by some who interpreted the facts based on their associations. Just cause The so called news reports don’t make it true when they produce their opinion of the facts.