[npwalters]

Getting back to the original question: am I worried about climate change? Check back with me in about 300 years.

[TexaninVA]

...

"We decided to move to The Villages, because of its height above sea level. "

Our former President just bought a place on the beach up north. Apparently, he's not too worried about rising sea levels?

[Two Bills]

If there is no willingness by governments, only lip service to tackle the problem of pollution, all the drum banging and protest marches will acomplish nothing.
The world is ruled by major industries, oil, automotive, chemical, arms manufacturers etc.
Those companies are ruled by the share/stock holders, which are the major banks and financial houses.
Cleaning enviromental pollution will cost an almost immeasurable amount of money to those companies, which will decimate returns and profit.
Good luck with that then!!!

[Daddymac]

The earth has been warming from the end of the iceage.
And that is a “fact”

[JimJohnson]

Man can slow the warming of the earth with responsible energy policies for the sake of our grandchildren, OR, we can ignore the issue so we can witness the destruction during our lifetime.

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by JimJohnson

Man can slow the warming of the earth with responsible energy policies for the sake of our grandchildren, OR, we can ignore the issue so we can witness the destruction during our lifetime.

I challenge you on that. We can't get enough of "man" to agree to do all that is necessary to slow the process.

At this time.

Are you willing to give up your engines?

[JimJohnson]

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I challenge you on that. We can't get enough of "man" to agree to do all that is necessary to slow the process.

At this time.

Are you willing to give up your engines?

I drive an electric golf cart because, yes I will give up my engine rather than throw up my hands in hopeless defeat without trying. I guess I have more faith in my fellow man than you do.

[biker1]

Do you also drive an electric automobile? Do you realize that the electricity for your golf cart is generated with fossil fuels and the manufacturing and recycling of your old-technology lead-acid batteries also consume fossil fuel generated energy? Just to put things in perspective, about 400 millions gallons of gasoline are consumed daily in just the US alone.

Originally Posted by JimJohnson

I drive an electric golf cart because, yes I will give up my engine rather than throw up my hands in hopeless defeat without trying. I guess I have more faith in my fellow man than you do.

[biker1]

What energy policies are you referring to?

Originally Posted by JimJohnson

Man can slow the warming of the earth with responsible energy policies for the sake of our grandchildren, OR, we can ignore the issue so we can witness the destruction during our lifetime.

[JimJohnson]

Originally Posted by biker1

Do you also drive an electric automobile? Do you realize that the electricity for your golf cart is generated with fossil fuels and the manufacturing and recycling of your old-technology lead-acid batteries also consume fossil fuel generated energy? Just to put things in perspective, about 400 millions gallons of gasoline are consumed daily in just the US alone.

Sir, my auto of choice is the PRIUS. We have solar panels on the roof of our house. I don’t know if I am right, but I know I am trying to help.

[rustyp]

Originally Posted by biker1

do you also drive an electric automobile? Do you realize that the electricity for your golf cart is generated with fossil fuels and the manufacturing and recycling of your old-technology lead-acid batteries also consume fossil fuel generated energy? Just to put things in perspective, about 400 millions gallons of gasoline are consumed daily in just the us alone.

Very complicated subject. Sometimes when you think your sacrificing for the better good you are actually doing more harm. As in an earlier post I wrote it is important to realize how much energy is consumed in producing a product. The greater the population the more demand to produce products

[graciegirl]

Originally Posted by JimJohnson

I drive an electric golf cart because, yes I will give up my engine rather than throw up my hands in hopeless defeat without trying. I guess I have more faith in my fellow man than you do.

That is not the point. Most people do believe in global warming. Most people would like to help stop it. Most people care very much that they do not destroy the environment and the planet...….

However, industrialization has halved poverty and hunger since 1990. (Please Google) For us to stop or slow down the amounts of bad stuff we as human beings produce as we live our lives and remain alive, we would need the combined efforts of more than a third of the world. That will NOT happen.

I am realistic.

The difference between some of us and others of us is that we know that there are some problems that do not have a valid solution. At this time.

Throwing money at them may make us feel better.

I'll save my money throwing toward a realistic answer to this huge problem.

[biker1]

What you may be helping is your own financial situation. Those technologies, hybrid car and PV panels, may save you money if you keep them long enough.

Originally Posted by JimJohnson

Sir, my auto of choice is the PRIUS. We have solar panels on the roof of our house. I don’t know if I am right, but I know I am trying to help.

[blueash]

What I have found interesting in this thread, and in the broader discussion of climate change is the new position taken by the faction that used to be called deniers. Five to ten years ago it was the claim that there was no global warming. There were vehement diatribes that the temperature data being produced by the US and the UN and multiple other sources were made up, what is now called "fake news" and that there in fact was no warming at all.

There was a huge attempt to falsely claim that some emails proved it was all cooked up data. This was labelled "Climategate" by the deniers. Click on the link to see what leading US legislators jumped on this as proving that global warming was a "hoax".

Now it seems everyone sees that the temperature data is real, both for the atmosphere and the oceans. And so the argument shifted to, yes it is getting warmer but it has nothing to do with human activity. It was all natural cycles and the ever changing climate alterations, and when was the last ice age. Some few here are still denying humanity's role or minimizing it.

But most of the posters are admitting that the climate is being impacted in a significant way by man. Some say, well we shouldn't do anything until China does something big, and India does something big. But at least therein is an acceptance that it is human action using fossil fuels that is causing this change. So that's progress.

I'd only add that if you believe in leadership and stewardship by our country in the world, that is a specious argument. China's economy is booming but very young and that nation is still climbing out of third world status. And they in fact have made major efforts to improve their environmental impacts. Sadly those changes are coming too slowly. Our nation has gone backwards in the last 3 years having abandoned goals and abrogated international agreements.

As to the initial question, and I worried about climate change? Not for myself or my children or grandchildren. We are secure here and will not be significantly impacted. But my view is broader than that. I am concerned for the devastation that a foot of ocean rise will cause to arable land in the third world. I am concerned about the loss of coral reefs and alterations in the phytoplankton which may destroy the fish life in our oceans causing starvation, but not here. Some experts have predicted that resulting famines will spark major international and regional wars. And I understand that what we do now will effect the world for decades. And what we fail to do will also have consequences.

So I am heartened that at least most of us are finally on board that warming is real and needs to be addressed. Overton's window has shifted.

[OrangeBlossomBaby]

Originally Posted by blueash

What I have found interesting in this thread, and in the broader discussion of climate change is the new position taken by the faction that used to be called deniers. Five to ten years ago it was the claim that there was no global warming. There were vehement diatribes that the temperature data being produced by the US and the UN and multiple other sources were made up, what is now called "fake news" and that there in fact was no warming at all.

There was a huge attempt to falsely claim that some emails proved it was all cooked up data. This was labelled "Climategate" by the deniers. Click on the link to see what leading US legislators jumped on this as proving that global warming was a "hoax".

Now it seems everyone sees that the temperature data is real, both for the atmosphere and the oceans. And so the argument shifted to, yes it is getting warmer but it has nothing to do with human activity. It was all natural cycles and the ever changing climate alterations, and when was the last ice age. Some few here are still denying humanity's role or minimizing it.

But most of the posters are admitting that the climate is being impacted in a significant way by man. Some say, well we shouldn't do anything until China does something big, and India does something big. But at least therein is an acceptance that it is human action using fossil fuels that is causing this change. So that's progress.

I'd only add that if you believe in leadership and stewardship by our country in the world, that is a specious argument. China's economy is booming but very young and that nation is still climbing out of third world status. And they in fact have made major efforts to improve their environmental impacts. Sadly those changes are coming too slowly. Our nation has gone backwards in the last 3 years having abandoned goals and abrogated international agreements.

As to the initial question, and I worried about climate change? Not for myself or my children or grandchildren. We are secure here and will not be significantly impacted. But my view is broader than that. I am concerned for the devastation that a foot of ocean rise will cause to arable land in the third world. I am concerned about the loss of coral reefs and alterations in the phytoplankton which may destroy the fish life in our oceans causing starvation, but not here. Some experts have predicted that resulting famines will spark major international and regional wars. And I understand that what we do now will effect the world for decades. And what we fail to do will also have consequences.

So I am heartened that at least most of us are finally on board that warming is real and needs to be addressed. Overton's window has shifted.

I agree with the ideas, opinion, and sentiment you present in this post, 100% Just a little factual disagreement. The underlined section. Human action with regards to fossil fuels isn't "causing" the change. It is one major contributing factor to the speed of the change. Industry as a whole has a huge impact on climate change. It would be insane to expect our species to halt industry.

But it is not insane, and in fact, it is probably the ONLY sane consideration, to try and change our approach to industry.

Yes producing windmills and solar panels and electric or hybrid cars uses up a lot of fossil fuels and produces pollution.

But once these products have been made, they cease to continue using those fossil fuels, and they cease to produce pollution. Electricity -can- be generated without fossil fuels. And you can use that non-fossil fuel to charge batteries. I feel this is key to a new industrial revolution, which I also feel must occur if we want our planet to support our species in the next thousand years.

No, I won't be here to see it. Neither will your kids, or their kids, or their kids. But I personally don't want to spend the rest of my life with the attitude that "who cares, I won't have to deal with it, not my problem." That's not how I was raised.

If I can do even just one LITTLE thing to change how I approach waste, pollution, and the climate, then I'll do it. I don't feel I need to live in a cave off the grid and only eat what I can catch, in order to take personal responsibility for my part of this worldwide project. I can push for recycling legislation. I can join a club that re-uses, re-purposes things that might otherwise be thrown in a trash heap somewhere. I can get a couple of small rain barrels and use those to water my inside plants instead of tap water. I can buy my spring water by the gallon and just pour what I need into a re-useable smaller bottle to carry around with me. Or better yet, buy a filter for the faucet.

I can drive less, walk more. I can use my gas golf cart instead of the gas-powered car for short drives, since I use less with the cart.

I can buy more natural fiber clothing and fewer synthetics.

I can plant oxygen-producing plants. I can buy only trigger-spray household products instead of aerosols. Or I could even make my own, it's not especially difficult.

Big things, little things. If you can't afford or don't like the looks of solar panels, that's okay. Recycle more, that can be your part.

If EVERYONE did SOMETHING to help, we would see a shift in perception and approach to the situation. It would inspire more preservation, and less waste. The little thing you do, can inspire your neighbor to do more, which would inspire his neighbor to do more, and soon you have the entire neighborhood producing significantly less waste and contributing more to a healthy environment.

And then the next neighborhood notices how awesome it is, and they start taking steps. and so on and so forth.

It's only when people say "screw this, I won't be alive to see a change so why should I even try?" that everything comes to a stop and any attempt becomes futile.