Is America, Rome?

 
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  #16  
Old 08-20-2017, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Guest
Ok..we agree somewhat, but part ways on Trump.

Let me ask you a question because I know you try to be honest.

You are a smart lady, so you are aware, since being President Trump has lied very many times. Almost daily, and has made serious unfounded allegations against individual people who he felt did not agree with him (including serious legal charges) all from the Oval Office.

How do you square what you call "lack of good communication skills" with outright lies and baseless personal accusations coming from our Oval Office ? Remembering these are broadcast throughout the world.
I don't and I admit, I can't. I have trouble with that as well. My end result is not to glorify this President in any way. There are many times that I just cringe to be honest and wish he would listen to those better voices around him. My desired end result is, as I said, for a different voice to be heard in this country - one that has been silent for way too long. If this is the path that we have to take to get there, then so be it. Just to repeat why I think this is so important - if both sides are not being heard, we will never get to the truth.

Now let me preface this next thought with this - as a person of faith I have no additional knowledge than anyone else as to what God is trying to do with this great country of ours. BUT, I do know that He uses and has used some pretty pathetic characters (at least in the eyes of society) to turn situations around for good. Having said that, I choose not to be the judge of our President's character and instead choose a wait and see approach based on actions and outcome.

I hope that this at least helps in answering your question.
  #17  
Old 08-20-2017, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Guest
I don't and I admit, I can't. I have trouble with that as well. My end result is not to glorify this President in any way. There are many times that I just cringe to be honest and wish he would listen to those better voices around him. My desired end result is, as I said, for a different voice to be heard in this country - one that has been silent for way too long. If this is the path that we have to take to get there, then so be it. Just to repeat why I think this is so important - if both sides are not being heard, we will never get to the truth.

Now let me preface this next thought with this - as a person of faith I have no additional knowledge than anyone else as to what God is trying to do with this great country of ours. BUT, I do know that He uses and has used some pretty pathetic characters (at least in the eyes of society) to turn situations around for good. Having said that, I choose not to be the judge of our President's character and instead choose a wait and see approach based on actions and outcome.

I hope that this at least helps in answering your question.
This is a great and honest answer and I appreciate it.

I agree with all of it except the part about Trump. I, also had visions of him despite my feelings, of overcoming and doing what is best. Those visions are history.....he is the son of a Klan member, and spent his professional live as a racially divisive person, and after 7 months, he appears to be going back to the white nationalism he espoused for so many years.

BUT, everyone can change, right ?

Let us just pray that God continue to bless our country, because the trend is not a good one at all.

AGAIN thanks for honesty.
  #18  
Old 08-20-2017, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Guest
I rest my case with your post.

If you oppose Trump, you NEVER are allowed a defense for what you say and prove is true.

You are called a name or in some way de humanized, BUT I am the one at fault......I am the one who needs to be muffled. i am the one who overreacts (albeit with proof and links).

Amazing.........You obviously, Jack9696, are just fine with the lies. Ok, your choice, but I do not have to be.

Is that simple enough for you ?
Abby here again, not to be confused with poster you are addressing in post above-

I do get your point and don't like it from either side. It is nonproductive and very irritating, especially if you're the one being targeted. Not sure if it's because I'm still in the workplace and have to deal with a lot of negativity and insult dealing with the public, that I tune it out better than you do, or that I've just had to learn how to not take everything so personally. In other words, not worth my time to engage because it will only drag me down. You can always put the repeat offenders on ignore. As much as I didn't want to resort to that, I decided to try it with one person on here. When I realized I wasn't missing a thing by avoiding that person's posts, I decided to keep it that way.
  #19  
Old 08-20-2017, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Guest
This is a great and honest answer and I appreciate it.

I agree with all of it except the part about Trump. I, also had visions of him despite my feelings, of overcoming and doing what is best. Those visions are history.....he is the son of a Klan member, and spent his professional live as a racially divisive person, and after 7 months, he appears to be going back to the white nationalism he espoused for so many years.

BUT, everyone can change, right ?

Let us just pray that God continue to bless our country, because the trend is not a good one at all.

AGAIN thanks for honesty.
Amen to that! And you're welcome.
  #20  
Old 08-20-2017, 04:09 PM
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As the OP my intent was to point out that this nation, and in fact, the world lacks inspirational leadership.

Why all of the threads on Political Talk quickly move solely to Trump is part of this nation's problems.

Why aren't we ( collective nationally) devoted to keeping all of our politicians, government employees, educators, etc focused on solving America's problems?

Why aren't we demanding they do their jobs ?

Surely we didn't elect them to create division?

How can we devote such energies to this task if we ourselves remain so divided?

Personal Best Regards:
  #21  
Old 08-20-2017, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Guest
As the OP my intent was to point out that this nation, and in fact, the world lacks inspirational leadership.

Why all of the threads on Political Talk quickly move solely to Trump is part of this nation's problems.

Why aren't we ( collective nationally) devoted to keeping all of our politicians, government employees, educators, etc focused on solving America's problems?

Why aren't we demanding they do their jobs ?

Surely we didn't elect them to create division?

How can we devote such energies to this task if we ourselves remain so divided?

Personal Best Regards:
TRUMP is our President, the leader of the free world

The President ALWAYS THROUGH HISTORY is the one we look for leadership, tone and action.

The President is supposed to be the man who leads the pack.

Who do you suggest is discussed on a political forum ? There is no legislation, no movement to legislation and the administration is setting the days headline each day. If the headlines are not about him, he will make it so.

This is the job he ran for. Every President is the subject of minute study, every word parsed, looking for something...some leadership as to where he is leading. That is the way it is. This is not even a out of office party causes stirs....the Democrats have no leader, no agenda so all the road blocks are placed there by the administration.
  #22  
Old 08-20-2017, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Guest
I agree with you that America is the greatest country to ever exist. My concern is, can we keep it that way? So much has changed, especially where ambitions are concerned. Past generations believed in hard work and making your own way. I am so thankful that I was raised in a family where that was not only taught but modeled. No one in my family would have even considered a handout, no matter how down on their luck they may have been.

Today that mentality has greatly changed overall. Many feel entitled to be taken care of and others just lack the motivation to work that hard. I see it all around me in dealing with the general public in my workplace. I know the times have been harder over the past years, getting a job and making ends meet compared to when I graduated from college, but if we continue the trend of more and more people on the government payroll, our country will not continue on the path of greatness.

A great and inspiring leader is a start as the OP suggests, but much of this comes from teaching and role modeling IMO.
Indeed you describe the America of our youth. In my town free loader were scorned. On the other hand people falling on hard times were helped. People of bad character were shunned. In today's world it has all been turned upside down . I just cam across an advertisement where they recommend getting in on marijuana stocks. that is what this nation needs more inebriated jerks driving our roads working in our businesses teaching our kids.

Personal Best Regards:
  #23  
Old 08-20-2017, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Chi-Town View Post
Al, is that you?

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
I have been busy crisscrossing the country on important matters. How can I help you?
  #24  
Old 08-21-2017, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Guest
I don't and I admit, I can't. I have trouble with that as well. My end result is not to glorify this President in any way. There are many times that I just cringe to be honest and wish he would listen to those better voices around him. My desired end result is, as I said, for a different voice to be heard in this country - one that has been silent for way too long. If this is the path that we have to take to get there, then so be it. Just to repeat why I think this is so important - if both sides are not being heard, we will never get to the truth.

Now let me preface this next thought with this - as a person of faith I have no additional knowledge than anyone else as to what God is trying to do with this great country of ours. BUT, I do know that He uses and has used some pretty pathetic characters (at least in the eyes of society) to turn situations around for good. Having said that, I choose not to be the judge of our President's character and instead choose a wait and see approach based on actions and outcome.

I hope that this at least helps in answering your question.
"

Well stated. If the American people supported or simply in a good faith effort seriously debated the Republican platform we may accomplish something.

Many people dismiss out of hand the number of outsiders who are hell bent on removing this nation as the number one and only super power. George Soros leading globalist comes to mind and those who have followed the money trail find it leads them back to the very groups marching in the streets. The Russians
are infamous for creating chaos in other countries.

The radical wing of the Democratic Party is so wrapped up in identity politics it can't and won't see the forest for the trees.

Indeed Trump does not do himself any favors and in fact provides opportunities for his enemies to attack him. Is it a strategic play by Trump ( ie headfake?)

but the MSM Deep State will continue their false narratives because they want back their power and control. Ergo my desire for good faith effort at logical debate which is non-existent now.

the losers in all this the American people

Personal Best Regards:
  #25  
Old 08-21-2017, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Guest
I believe America to be the greatest country ever to exist.

I never believed America to be perfect for sure, but I believe in America.

I believe in our ability to overcome whatever confronts us by talking and listening.

I believe America is made stronger by every new person who comes here with a dream.

I do not dilute myself to think America is perfect, but I believe America is made up of people who believe in freedom, understand how that freedom can at times seem an impediment, but also know we raise ourselves to greater things when we understand how blessed we are and the hard work of understanding that is needed to maintain that.

America is, despite those who want it to be about labels, is still the great melting pot of history.
America was the greatest because of sacrifice which is in damn short supply today. It's all about me and something for nothing. IMHO
  #26  
Old 08-21-2017, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Guest
America was the greatest because of sacrifice which is in damn short supply today. It's all about me and something for nothing. IMHO
"President Trump has depleted the Secret Service.

The federal law enforcement agency has already hit its limits for agent salaries and overtime after just a few months of protecting Trump, his family and his homes.

Secret Service Director Randolph (Tex) Alles told USA Today that Trump’s family has blown through a budget for more than 1,000 agents that was supposed to last for the rest of 2017.

The First Family has overwhelmed the agency with its constant trips across the country — and its extravagant lifestyle, Alles said. The Secret Service has spent about $60,000 alone just to rent golf carts to follow Trump around his courses in New Jersey and Florida."


Trump and his family have already depleted Secret Service budget - NY Daily News
  #27  
Old 08-21-2017, 09:47 AM
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"Alles said the Trump presidency has called for unprecedented protection. Trump requires 42 people to have Secret Service protection, including 18 members of his family. Former President Barack Obama, by comparison, needed protection for 31 people through his two terms.

Trump’s family has also been exhausting the agency’s resources by its constant travels across the nation and the globe. Trump has traveled to one of his properties nearly every weekend of his presidency, spending about a quarter of the days from his short presidency away from the White House. Each of those weekend getaways is estimated to cost up to $3 million for travel and protection.

The Secret Service has also had to follow all of Trump’s children during their trips abroad for vacation or promotion for the Trump Organization and related businesses. Agents have in some instances paid tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars to Trump properties to protect the children during business trips there."


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...icle-1.3429167

"Trump's other sons, Trump Organization executives Donald Jr. and Eric, based in New York, also are covered by security details including when they travel frequently to promote Trump-branded properties in other countries."

Exclusive: Secret Service out of money to pay agents because of Trump's frequent travel, large family

"In March, security details accompanied part of the family, including Ivanka Trump and husband Jared Kushner on a skiing vacation in Aspen, Colo. Even Tiffany Trump, the president's youngest daughter, took vacation to international locales such as Germany and Hungary with her boyfriend, which also require Secret Service protection."


Keeping this in context, understand that most of this is mandated by law...not the travels, etc but the protection service.
  #28  
Old 08-21-2017, 10:00 AM
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Most importantly....

"Overwork and constant travel has also been driving a recent exodus from the Secret Service ranks, yet without congressional intervention to provide additional funding, Alles will not even be able pay agents for the work they have already done.

The compensation crunch is so serious that the director has begun discussions with key lawmakers to raise the combined salary and overtime cap for agents, from $160,000 per year to $187,000 for at least the duration of Trump's first term.

But even if such a proposal was approved, about 130 veteran agents would not be fully compensated for hundreds of hours already amassed, according to the agency.

"I don't see this changing in the near term,'' Alles said."


Exclusive: Secret Service out of money to pay agents because of Trump's frequent travel, large family

"A special investigative panel formed after a particularly egregious 2014 White House breach also found that that agents and uniform officers worked "an unsustainable number of hours,'' which also contributed to troubling attrition rates."
  #29  
Old 08-22-2017, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Guest
I believe America to be the greatest country ever to exist.

I never believed America to be perfect for sure, but I believe in America.

I believe in our ability to overcome whatever confronts us by talking and listening.

I believe America is made stronger by every new person who comes here with a dream.

I do not dilute myself to think America is perfect, but I believe America is made up of people who believe in freedom, understand how that freedom can at times seem an impediment, but also know we raise ourselves to greater things when we understand how blessed we are and the hard work of understanding that is needed to maintain that.

America is, despite those who want it to be about labels, is still the great melting pot of history.
It WAS the greatest...now we're down around #25.

NOT if the dream is to drop an anchor baby and live here for free.

The "melting pot" everyone talks about, on the stature of liberty, etc. Was a melting pot of WHITE people...Europeans. There was NO black/Hispanic immigration to speak of. That changed in the 1960s when Johnson started letting in all the black/brown people...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest
I agree with you that America is the greatest country to ever exist. My concern is, can we keep it that way? So much has changed, especially where ambitions are concerned. Past generations believed in hard work and making your own way. I am so thankful that I was raised in a family where that was not only taught but modeled. No one in my family would have even considered a handout, no matter how down on their luck they may have been.

Today that mentality has greatly changed overall. Many feel entitled to be taken care of and others just lack the motivation to work that hard. I see it all around me in dealing with the general public in my workplace. I know the times have been harder over the past years, getting a job and making ends meet compared to when I graduated from college, but if we continue the trend of more and more people on the government payroll, our country will not continue on the path of greatness.

A great and inspiring leader is a start as the OP suggests, but much of this comes from teaching and role modeling IMO.
Mo..."they" can't...they being the new minority majority. Look what minority majorities do to our cities...it's doing the same to the country. White men built America only white men can keep it. Name 1 black/brown independent successful country.

Black and brown people are like that...THEY are becoming the majority. As the percentage of whites goes down...so does the quality of the country.

We left the path towards greatness in the 1960s when we started lowering standards and making quotas.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest
I agree, except I have a different twist on the subject.

I believe we need someone in the White House who truely and sincerely believes in this country.

You are correct that attitudes have changed. In my opinion, our economy is the reason. People do not come out of the womb wanting you to pay their way. It is an attitude that is nurtured over years. Why ?

We need employment, and we need to get it by a positive means. I oppose Trump, the man, but I do believe we need to make our economy vibrant again. NOT by mocking other countries, but by our leaders working "together" to find ways. Sounds very simple and bland, doesn't it ? Well, I think it that simple. I certainly have no answers because I do not have that skill set.

Here is where we separate. Instead of a leader who can provide leadership to bring our leaders together to solve this problem, we instead of a person who has zero interest in that. What he calls making America great...I do not and will restate something I quoted before.

"Patriotism is when love of your own people comes first; nationalism, when hate for people other than your own comes first."


Instead we have the opposite. We have a person who is not willing to put in the work to listen to others. The solution is there...we simply need to stop talking ABOUT others and listening to them.

Attitudes can change. It takes time and hope, not accusations and chanting. It takes work, not rallies.

Oh, and since you quote the OP, this is the same poster who posted a day or so that Trump should have been elected well before he was, and who feels revulsion for those who,oppose Trump. I oppose Trump because he is simply the worst possible person to have that job. He is not and will not "do the work". As I said....rallies, accusations are not the answer, especially once you have been elected and are President.

Those on this forum who like to indulge in maligning me and my standards say, for some reason, that means I am whatever name or syndrome they come up with that day., but , IN MY OPINION, I recognize we are going in reverse, and Trump, as many of his close friends have said....does not want to do the work required. His interests are self, and in my opinion, that is clear. The quote I shared about loving our own "people" means ALL our people. Political differences are one thing....from the Oval is totally different.
Yes..the new majority doesn't...really CAN'T...make their own way. The minorities are not as capable as white people.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest
I can hardly believe it, but we're going to agree to AGREE! Good post - you make some excellent points. I can honestly say that I am not all that thrilled with Trump, the man, myself. My vote for him was more a vote for a movement in this country in another direction. My hope is to break up the cronyism that is Washington and outside interests that seem to influence what happens in this country more than the influence of we the people. By voting for someone who was more of an outsider, that is what I hoped for. Whether that will happen or not, is yet to be seen.

I like your quote and it rings true. Unfortunately, it seems that there is a lot of hate around us at this time and it is coming from both sides. I don't feel this started with Trump's presidency though. It seemed evident to me that it was building throughout both W. Bush and Obama's presidencies and has escalated with Trump's. I tend to think the reason for the escalation is 2-fold however. One is obviously Trump's lack of good communication skills. I am still not convinced, as you are, that he is only out for himself and not wanting to make America great again as he states, but again that is yet to be seen. The other factor is that the silent majority finally has a voice to combat the disregard that many of us have felt over the past 8+ years where our beliefs, faith, etc have been repeatedly trampled on. Unfortunately, that voice is far from perfect in speaking for all of us, but it's a start.
They are being trampled on because you are being replaced. There's a new majority in town....and it ain't you. The majority gets their way...especially if they hate white people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest
Every great society is doomed. The thing that accelerated demise was poor borders.

History is just repeating itself.
Exactly! Hispanics dropped off 50 million anchor babies. 50 million Trojan horses. Who are going to turn America into Mexico II.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest
Reckless reproduction by those you can't control their urges or purposefully reproducing for religious dominance must be addressed.
And they get PAID for each child! The poor get a monthly stipend for each child.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest
Indeed you describe the America of our youth. In my town free loader were scorned. On the other hand people falling on hard times were helped. People of bad character were shunned. In today's world it has all been turned upside down . I just cam across an advertisement where they recommend getting in on marijuana stocks. that is what this nation needs more inebriated jerks driving our roads working in our businesses teaching our kids.

Personal Best Regards:
A 90% white America...America HAS changed for the worse...and it's now 51% minorities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest
America was the greatest because of sacrifice which is in damn short supply today. It's all about me and something for nothing. IMHO
It's about a minority majority. More takers than producers. More stupid idiots than smart people.
  #30  
Old 08-23-2017, 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Guest
Ok..we agree somewhat, but part ways on Trump.

Let me ask you a question because I know you try to be honest.

You are a smart lady, so you are aware, since being President Trump has lied very many times. Almost daily, and has made serious unfounded allegations against individual people who he felt did not agree with him (including serious legal charges) all from the Oval Office.

How do you square what you call "lack of good communication skills" with outright lies and baseless personal accusations coming from our Oval Office ? Remembering these are broadcast throughout the world.
If you wish an honest answer, why don't you give some examples of your "outright lies?" The left needs to take a refresher, elementary school course on vocabulary, because they abuse terms so easily, and then insisting that what they say is true. I understand that they are easily led minions of their elitist leaders and do not know any better, merely parroting liberal talking points. Case in point is their blatant misuse of "lies, lying, liar." In order to qualify as a lie or liar, one must be saying an untruth in an effort to purposely deceive. Making a mistake is not a lie and does not make one a liar.

The left insists on misusing many terms, another being "racist" and another "bigot."

Please work on it, because you folks are becoming boorish in your accusations.
 

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