I've watched since the late 60's how many people have fared in the long term after using pot a little, or to the extreme. Some have gone on to a "life" of nothing but drugs, oblivion, uselessness, and then suffering chronic disease and death from lung cancer, COPD etc. and cirrhosis of the liver and whole body alcohol effects. More of them have been able to finish college, get a career job using their degree, etc. and were able to walk away from it as Richie describes. Looking at my high school and college friends who either walked away and lived a productive life, and those who became a total waste and then suffered for years from chronic disease and death, it looks like the wasted ones followed the same pattern as the typical end-stage alcoholic. It depends on the choices they made over and over, and a lot on how they cope with life's problems and stresses. The ones who made it learned over time that there is a better way to live (not in a stupor), and those who didn't make it escaped into a booze bottle or other drugs like pot.

One problem with people who use pot all the time is that they really do not know how dulled their minds have become......smart, smart people I've seen become total dullards. While they think they are fine, the rest of us see they are basically useless.

One problem I have with pot being illegal is that possession or use gets one a criminal record. I think it is counter productive and wrong for a person who smoked dope and got arrested for possession/use in college to have a criminal record following them into their search for a career job. Imagine if everyone who drank alcohol (of legal-age) in college got arrested and had a criminal record now from that. Having a criminal record for getting caught possessing pot or "paraphanalia" is extreme, when many people try it and just grow up and move on.

If this Frank-Paul bill were passed (I don't think it will), what would happen to the criminal records people have for possession/use (not convictions for operating a vehicle under the influence)?

Originally Posted by ilovetv

I've watched since the late 60's how many people have fared in the long term after using pot a little, or to the extreme. Some have gone on to a "life" of nothing but drugs, oblivion, uselessness, and then suffering chronic disease and death from lung cancer, COPD etc. and cirrhosis of the liver and whole body alcohol effects. More of them have been able to finish college, get a career job using their degree, etc. and were able to walk away from it as Richie describes. Looking at my high school and college friends who either walked away and lived a productive life, and those who became a total waste and then suffered for years from chronic disease and death, it looks like the wasted ones followed the same pattern as the typical end-stage alcoholic. It depends on the choices they made over and over, and a lot on how they cope with life's problems and stresses. The ones who made it learned over time that there is a better way to live (not in a stupor), and those who didn't make it escaped into a booze bottle or other drugs like pot.

One problem with people who use pot all the time is that they really do not know how dulled their minds have become......smart, smart people I've seen become total dullards. While they think they are fine, the rest of us see they are basically useless.

One problem I have with pot being illegal is that possession or use gets one a criminal record. I think it is counter productive and wrong for a person who smoked dope and got arrested for possession/use in college to have a criminal record following them into their search for a career job. Imagine if everyone who drank alcohol (of legal-age) in college got arrested and had a criminal record now from that. Having a criminal record for getting caught possessing pot or "paraphanalia" is extreme, when many people try it and just grow up and move on.

If this Frank-Paul bill were passed (I don't think it will), what would happen to the criminal records people have for possession/use (not convictions for operating a vehicle under the influence)?

Would people predisposed to addiction have become addicted to some substance or another if there was no such thing as marijuana or alcohol?

Just some food for thought when downplaying the seriousnss of marijuana
usage. These are just a few and do not include effects on the brain, etc.
Note the high percent in treatment centers. (322,000 is not an insignificant
number.) A strong indicator are the youth. If mom and dad can do it why can
I.
As a last point I don't see any admissions to treatment centers for usage of
coffee?

The latest treatment data indicate that in 2008 marijuana accounted for 17 percent of admissions (322,000) to treatment facilities in the United States, second only to opiates among illicit substances. Marijuana admissions were primarily male (74 percent), White (49 percent), and young (30 percent were in the 12-17 age range). Those in treatment for primary marijuana abuse had begun use at an early age: 56 percent by age 14.

Effects on the Heart
Marijuana increases heart rate by 20-100 percent shortly after smoking; this effect can last up to 3 hours. In one study, it was estimated that marijuana users have a 4.8-fold increase in the risk of heart attack in the first hour after smoking the drug.5 This may be due to increased heart rate as well as the effects of marijuana on heart rhythms, causing palpitations and arrhythmias. This risk may be greater in aging populations or in those with cardiac vulnerabilities.
Psychosis/Panic:

High doses of marijuana can cause psychosis or panic when you're high. Some people experience an acute psychotic reaction (disturbed perceptions and thoughts, paranoia) or panic attacks while under the influence of marijuana. This usually goes away as the drug's effects wear off. Scientists do not yet know if marijuana use causes lasting mental illness, although it can worsen psychotic symptoms in people who already have the mental illness schizophrenia, and it can increase the risk of long-lasting psychosis in those vulnerable to the disease.

Of course not. Coffee is the gateway drug.

One thing you need to understand. I'm not reading reports done by anti-drug activist organizations, I'm not citing unsubstantiated studies by funded foundations that are unnamed, and I'm not trying to imagine the effects of usage.

I speak from years of personal experience and observation. I don't think there's much you can say that will "enlighten" me. I know you think ill of me for that statement. But it is what it is.

Penn - I see exactly where you are coming from with your statements about marijuana. However, the same things can be said for alcohol and cigarettes. None of them are on the "healthy" list of things to do but regulated (no selling to minors) usage is permitted for alcohol and cigarettes.

Cigarettes are terrible. They cause cancer as well as chronic lung disease that has cost taxpayers billions of dollars - but they are legal.

Booze is the same thing. I know the risks when I have a shot of Johnnie Walker Black but it is legal. I know it can cause liver damage, brain damage, and heart attack. Alcoholics can legally buy booze. Why not stop the sale of booze?

The addictive disorder person will take any of those products as well as glue sniffing, aerosol sniffing, banana peel smoking, or just about anything and turn it into a life changing event for themselves.

Some thngs are not good for you but are still legal.

Decriminalization may be the best course for dealing with drugs. Portugal may provide an intelligent path to follow. The below referenced article from Scientific American shows that with decriminalization and the offer of treatment, if desired, has led to a remarkable drop in drug usage including drugs such as LSD, heroin, cocaine and other ‘street drugs’ and their accompanying health consequences. It appears to be much more effective and less expensive to offer treatment rather than jailing people using these drugs.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...riminalization

Time magazine examined and discredited the idea of marijuana as a gateway drug in the article, “Marijuana as a Gateway Drug: The Myth That Will Not Die.” Time contended that the idea of the gateway drug arose because of confusion between correlation and cause. Use of marijuana correlates with the use of other drugs, but there appears to be no causation link.

http://healthland.time.com/2010/10/2...-will-not-die/

Thanks for the links BBQ.

If a person wants to drink and become an alcoholic or use other drugs such
marijuana, cocaine, and so on it's fine. The problem is that they don't do it in a closed enviorment and it is a family disease. If someone wants to harm themselves, or try to avoid reality heck who cares. Again, they spread
this disease to the family and they are the ones that suffer.
A good idea to get the impact of these is if the person would go to an AA meeting, or an Ala non meeting or go to a treatment center or crisis center to understand the devestaton to the body and family.
This idea of comparing these to coffee is to avoid responsibity for ones acts.
Again, if someone wants to harm themselves, let them do it. Unfortunately when you see or observe an alcoholic or drug user you don't see the harm it is doing to the families of these people.
Regarding alcohol..do you know that unlike the other drugs it is the one that effects every organ in the body. It has the same chemical interaction with the body as embalming fluid.
The addiction theryapists see this everyday, including the attempts to justify the usage. The most sad part is to see the terrible effects they have had on the family and the distruction to the children. As it is said, "Oh look Dad and Mom are smoking weed so it must OK for me,"(age 13). Future patient of a theryapist and a potential for mental and physical problems.

Legalize it and the liberals will find a way for Medicaid to pay for it for their constituants. If it's legal, and they cannot afford it, it will become their RIGHT (under some ammendment) to have it.

Not only will the Liberal's find a way for everyone to pay for this form of drug abuse but they will also include and expand the costs of medical treatments,
(e.g. crisis centers, more hospital fees, rehabs, halfway houses, ++ many more costs associated with drug abuse). One thing drug abusers and alcoholics know is how to work the system !! As I have said in other notes
if someone want to kill themselves, use denial as a tool to continue drug abuse or abuse alcohol then so be it. Unfortunately 99% also cause terrible
pain for their families who become less important than their desire for escape. It is a selfish addiction !!

Originally Posted by PennBF

Not only will the Liberal's find a way for everyone to pay for this form of drug abuse but they will also include and expand the costs of medical treatments,
(e.g. crisis centers, more hospital fees, rehabs, halfway houses, ++ many more costs associated with drug abuse). One thing drug abusers and alcoholics know is how to work the system !! As I have said in other notes
if someone want to kill themselves, use denial as a tool to continue drug abuse or abuse alcohol then so be it. Unfortunately 99% also cause terrible
pain for their families who become less important than their desire for escape. It is a selfish addiction !!

I know lots of things people do that could be considered dangerous and in a worse case scenario would damage themselves and hurt the family who rely on them, as you keep pointing out.

The worst one I can think of is motor vehicles, especially motorcycles. People who ride motorcycles are just asking for trouble and when they crash, it's never a simple fender bender but a usually serious injury or death. We should outlaw them. Plus, as I've read, all motorcyclist's first 2 wheeler was a bicycle. Bicycles being the gateway vehicle to the dangerous motorcycle. So maybe we should outlaw them also.

Cars are bad enough. You know many many more people die in auto accidents than from smoking marijuana. Oh wait, bad example; nobody dies from smoking marijuana. They might get the munchies though and stop into a McDonald's and we know that all that fast food can kill you, so maybe we can say that.

Take a closer look at the Netherlands and the pandoras box they created for themselves. take a closer look at colorado which legaize marj for medial use. They are reporting more negative issues that they now have to address than they ever imagined.

Take a closer look at people who claim to smoke marj only as a recreational drug. what do you see? More importantly what is it that you don't see?

Logically why would anyone want to encourage people to develop a bad and dangerous habit by legalizing it? Why allow legalizing it while spending enormous amount to stop people from smoking?

Let's face it we have become a country accustom to taking the easy way out. Essentially we have lost our ability to solve our problems as a nation

PS with all the real problems this country is facing we have these two jerks wasting time on legalizing an illegal and dangerous drug! Give me a break

Originally Posted by rubicon

PS with all the real problems this country is facing we have these two jerks wasting time on legalizing an illegal and dangerous drug! Give me a break

I really just messing around, as I've heard self righteous do gooders my whole life who try to take away people's ability to make their own choices in life, and I think they can just as well mind their own business.

I''ve always taken a libertarian approach to the use of marijuana which is far less dangerous than alcohol which is readily available for adult use.

I was on the Board of Directors for an organization that dealt with run a way teens. Attended more than one group therapy session as an observer and after 5 years of inolvement there is no one including Jesus Christ, praise be his holy name, that could convince me that legalization is anything more than users push to get people out of their way from continuing their irresponsible habit. As one member said how long before we get this addiction covered by medicare/medicaid.

The stories that unfolded at those group meetings had me in tears as I watched families struggling with what was described as reacreational use gone awry.

MJ has a higher THC content today than it did in the pass. Kids have no viable role models. Movie idols tell kids drugs are cool, sports figures tell kids drugs are the avenue to success.. Movies suggest that drugs are natural and common place. and now we have the government saying it is OK to do drugs.

What the heck is happening to us? Which way is our moral compass pointed? Why is abnormal behavior cool and the new norm? Who made what rule?

Have todays parents abidicated their responsibilities preferring the governement to tell them what is acceptable. Is teaching diversity more important that civics and history which by the way measures high schools effectiveness at only 12%. Sorry members but when our kids are more focus on their waist measurements than they are their IQ's you know we are in deep trouble.