http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/12/us...er=rss&emc=rss

to protect Pelosi and other liars involved.
Consider the source...Panetta
The following is rhetorical and unintended for anybody personally:
How could he end a program that is yet to be identified?

Oooops , there I go again taking an anecdotal testimony to task and asking for a fact!!!!!

I know we can't turn the clock back but it's just too bad the prior administration was not as open and transparent and as honest and non secretive as the current administration.......

btk

Originally Posted by billethkid

to protect Pelosi and other liars involved.
Consider the source...Panetta
The following is rhetorical and unintended for anybody personally:
How could he end a program that is yet to be identified?

Oooops , there I go again taking an anecdotal testimony to task and asking for a fact!!!!!

I know we can't turn the clock back but it's just too bad the prior administration was not as open and transparent and as honest and non secretive as the current administration.......

btk

CAREFULL...big brother may be watching

Originally Posted by GrayGoose

CAREFULL...big brother may be watching

From what I read, and believe me you will NEVER know much except for the political innuendo that is now diverting, it was a PLAN for a program that was NEVER EVER used.

Can we assume that it would have been shared with congress if it ever was going to be used as much as the assumption that the previous administration was trying to hide something ?

I suggest it depends on your party affliation....because this is ALL politics !

I would suggest we should worry more about LEAKS to the press about CIA business....THAT concerns me much much more !

I don't buy into your allegation that "it's all politics", Bucco. The current flap and media reports may be politics, but the initial design of the program and it's concealment by the Vice President was definitely NOT politics. It was conduct by one branch of government that bordered on, if not crossed the line of illegality.

Forgetting whether the program concealed by Vice President Cheney was ever initiated or not--I don't know at this point. Does anyone think that this type of conduct on the part of the executive branch was what the framers of the Constitution had in mind for the relationship between the legislative and executive branches of government?

Somehow, I think not.

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

Forgetting whether the program concealed by Vice President Cheney was ever initiated or not--I don't know at this point. Does anyone think that this type of conduct on the part of the executive branch was what the framers of the Constitution had in mind for the relationship between the legislative and executive branches of government?

Somehow, I think not.

I THINK I agree with you on this VK.

I wonder how often this has been done.....and of course we never will !

Not condoning it at all and if there is a KNOWN violation of the law we should pursue it....HOWEVER, this is ALL political and we all know it and I am more concerned about the information being made public to the press !

Cant imagine nobody is concerned about the leaks and more about the politics !

I haven't been following this one very closely but I'm hesitant to believe in anything that the Times reports. Also, it has been suggested by many that the NYTtimes be held for treason for their many leaks, except of course, when one of their own is captured by the enemy.

Originally Posted by Keedy

I haven't been following this one very closely but I'm hesitant to believe in anything that the Times reports. Also, it has been suggested by many that the NYTtimes be held for treason for their many leaks, except of course, when one of their own is captured by the enemy.

If the law was violated by anyone it should be pursued....this country is about the rule of law.

Having said that......the Times is not as bad as those who feed them.

This entire episode seems to be all about politics. Ever wonder about the timing of this kind of stuf...BY BOTH SIDES.

Lets find out WHO LEAKED to the press !

Originally Posted by Bucco

If the law was violated by anyone it should be pursued....this country is about the rule of law.

Having said that......the Times is not as bad as those who feed them.

This entire episode seems to be all about politics. Ever wonder about the timing of this kind of stuf...BY BOTH SIDES.

Lets find out WHO LEAKED to the press !

I am a believer in the law...that being said..A newspaper will print what it wants regardless of who is feeding it. The NY Times has sat on many stories that didn't comply with their political agenda. The New York Times sat on the Edwards story for months, because of the Primaries. They pick and choose whatever story fits their fancy.

Originally Posted by Villages Kahuna

I don't buy into your allegation that "it's all politics", Bucco. The current flap and media reports may be politics, but the initial design of the program and it's concealment by the Vice President was definitely NOT politics. It was conduct by one branch of government that bordered on, if not crossed the line of illegality.

Forgetting whether the program concealed by Vice President Cheney was ever initiated or not--I don't know at this point. Does anyone think that this type of conduct on the part of the executive branch was what the framers of the Constitution had in mind for the relationship between the legislative and executive branches of government?

Somehow, I think not.

I think yes. There's a big difference between concealment and no requirement to report. The term concealment, absent a formal indictment, is strictly political in nature.

There is a distinct separation of powers between the Executive and the Congress. Just as the Executive has no right to demand any congressperson to disclose any/all their dealings (domestic or international) with anyone, or advise the Executive of any Congressonal investigation or plan of action, the reverse is also true. I don't see this as any different, provided no law was broken.

All Departments and independent Agencies within the Executive have a myriad of contingency plans on-the-shelf or in development. Congress never gets involved in the planning of any potential Executive action - again, it's a separation of powers issue. Congress only gets involved if: 1) current statutes or the Constitution require specific reporting to Congress on the planning of an action (and those reports are very specific as to format and content, and very rare); 2) new legislation is necessary to effect a plan; and/or 3) the plan's development needs additional funding only available from Congress.

The number of classified plans (and operations) within all the Departments and Agencies is quite extensive. They are all of varying classification and accessibility (or they wouldn't remain secret!) It's also extremely doubtful any one person anywhere knows about all of them. Also, it's quite logical that a new CIA director - especially one who is an intelligence business neophyte - won't learn about everything (including contingency plans development) ongoing in this world-wide and multi-tasked agency during an entire administration term - the volume of information is that large.

Is anybody concerned about how quickly Panetta's briefing to congress was leaked for partisan advantage? This was supposed to be a classified briefing.

But look at the bright side. If Cheney can be charged criminally for his actions to protect the country, then a future administration could hold Obama liable for the rash of missle strikes into Pakistan, along with the collateral civilian damage.

Originally Posted by Keedy

I haven't been following this one very closely but I'm hesitant to believe in anything that the Times reports. Also, it has been suggested by many that the NYTtimes be held for treason for their many leaks, except of course, when one of their own is captured by the enemy.

The first amendment was designed to allow a free press to keep an eye on that horrible "big government" you guys are always screaming about.

Article II, Section 3. He shall from time to time give to the Congress information of the state of the union, and recommend to their consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in case of disagreement between them, with respect to the time of adjournment, he may adjourn them to such time as he shall think proper; he shall receive ambassadors and other public ministers; he shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed, and shall commission all the officers of the United States.

Section 4. The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.

Finally- DICK CHENEY WAS NOT THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES!!!! NO WHERE IN THE CONSTITUTION DOES THE VICE PRESIDENT HAVE ANY POWER WHATSOEVER TO ORDER ANY AGENCY TO DO OR NOT TO DO, TO WITHHOLD OR NOT WITHOLD EVIDENCE. PERIOD END OF THOUGHT. END OF CONSTIUTUTION. You would complain about "activist" courts, but somehow make it ok for a subordinate officer of the Executive to do as he pleased.

Either you follow the Constitution as written, as you claim, or you use it for an excuse for your own right-wing extremist schemes. Which is it?

Are you loyal Americans or just party hacks and conspiratorial traitors? Let Justice go where it is is required to go by the Constitution and the Law, and let the truth settle the issue. Unless of course, you're also saying that the entire justice system of the United States is under some evil control along with the Obama Executive and the Evil Legislative Branch as well.

This is nothing BUT politics and you know, look at this hand while the other hand has a knife in your back.

Throw the bums out in 2010.

Originally Posted by ptownrob

The first amendment was designed to allow a free press to keep an eye on that horrible "big government" you guys are always screaming about.

Article II, Section 3. He shall from time to time give to the Congress information of the state of the union, and recommend to their consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in case of disagreement between them, with respect to the time of adjournment, he may adjourn them to such time as he shall think proper; he shall receive ambassadors and other public ministers; he shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed, and shall commission all the officers of the United States.

Section 4. The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.

Finally- DICK CHENEY WAS NOT THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES!!!! NO WHERE IN THE CONSTITUTION DOES THE VICE PRESIDENT HAVE ANY POWER WHATSOEVER TO ORDER ANY AGENCY TO DO OR NOT TO DO, TO WITHHOLD OR NOT WITHOLD EVIDENCE. PERIOD END OF THOUGHT. END OF CONSTIUTUTION. You would complain about "activist" courts, but somehow make it ok for a subordinate officer of the Executive to do as he pleased.

Either you follow the Constitution as written, as you claim, or you use it for an excuse for your own right-wing extremist schemes. Which is it?

Are you loyal Americans or just party hacks and conspiratorial traitors? Let Justice go where it is is required to go by the Constitution and the Law, and let the truth settle the issue. Unless of course, you're also saying that the entire justice system of the United States is under some evil control along with the Obama Executive and the Evil Legislative Branch as well.

As always you rant and rant and preach WITH NO FACTS WHATSOEVER !!!!

Was he required to report to Congress ? Since the "plan" was NEVER executed or planned, do you know if he was required to report to congress ?

I have seen NO..NOT ONE....POST saying that if he was required and did not exonerating him from any penalty ! NONE !

Yet, you rant on and on as if there were facts to consider !!!

You had better get under control and get off your high horse...please next time you want to vent...THINK...AND HAVE FACTS !!!!

NOW...lets assume (probably better chance than your choice) that he was NOT required to report, or heck, lets say he was required just for conversation sake...

HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THOSE WHO LEAKED IT TO THE PRESS...especially if as rumored it was a Democratic congressperson ?

don't we all hope that somebody is in charge of doing what ever it takes to keep us alive and out of harms way?
And what is wrong with keeping it from the incompetents in Congress who will do nothing but impede progress as they always do. And they would leak it to the media....you know...one of the terrorists best sources of information.

Don't you know the terrorists know how our wako Congress and all it's attendant partisan game playing and the media works? They are smart enough to play it like a fiddle.

I hope someone in the Obama administration is charged with some authority we all know nothing about to do what ever it takes to keep us safe.

Don't give me all the bleeding heart party lines. If you and or your family were able to survive not being burned alive in a terrorist nuclear blast because of someone charged to take action.....then how would you feel.

They didn't used to say "loose lips sink ships" in WW II for nothing.

What ever it takes!!!!!!!!!!!

btk