with absolutely no hope of recovering, challenging or even marking time as-is.

China has the money, the people, THE PLAN, the leadership, objectives, a huge manufacturing base, patience and no internal partisan competition with the good of the country as it's prime objective. Not necessarily the good of the people but their country is the priority...not the individual...not a politician...or a partisan division. They are also not first in line to provide financial or any other kind of aid to every 0one that has their hand out.

The following article does an excellent job of portraying China as a very competent world leader that will easily displace the USA as the pre-eminent super power in the world:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b852a826-2...#axzz1BP26Iw1Y

And they will do it without even having to fire a shot.

The front page of the Drudge report shows a picture of Obama shaking hands with the leader of China and he once again APPEARS to be bowing.

Our country will always be the greatest place on earth to live, however our position in the world will be substantially different.

In that familiar trilogy of lead, follow or get out of the way, I fear we are only capable of getting out of the way....unfortunately.

I would like to hear others opinions/perceptions of the future and China.

btk

Originally Posted by billethkid

with absolutely no hope of recovering, challenging or even marking time as-is.

China has the money, the people, THE PLAN, the leadership, objectives, a huge manufacturing base, patience and no internal partisan competition with the good of the country as it's prime objective. Not necessarily the good of the people but their country is the priority...not the individual...not a politician...or a partisan division. They are also not first in line to provide financial or any other kind of aid to every 0one that has their hand out.

The following article does an excellent job of portraying China as a very competent world leader that will easily displace the USA as the pre-eminent super power in the world:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b852a826-2...#axzz1BP26Iw1Y

And they will do it without even having to fire a shot.

The front page of the Drudge report shows a picture of Obama shaking hands with the leader of China and he once again APPEARS to be bowing.

Our country will always be the greatest place on earth to live, however our position in the world will be substantially different.

In that familiar trilogy of lead, follow or get out of the way, I fear we are only capable of getting out of the way....unfortunately.

I would like to hear others opinions/perceptions of the future and China.

btk

They Curtsy to the Queen, they put their hands together in a praying motion when meeting India Leader and Bow to Chinese Leader???

SO WHAT

Originally Posted by billethkid

...we are methodically being surpassed, with absolutely no hope of recovering, challenging or even marking time as-is...

The visit of the Chinese premier and the state dinner tomorrow night is getting a lot of coverage by the media, including the increasingly frequent meetings between the countries at lots of levels.

But in watching "The Morning Joe" show on MSNBC yesterday, the hosts and panelists were discussing an interesting and important question...with the economic and political success they are achieving, and the increasing military might (nuclear subs, stealth fighters and the like), why should China be very receptive to U.S. efforts to negotiate change on their part?

The response by all the participants in the discussion, from both the conservative and liberal sides was the same--China has no particular need to respond to U.S. requests and demands to take action, either economically or with regard to their foreign affairs. In fact I think it was Pat Buchanan, the conservative panelist who observed that we've been where China is now, and we never listened much, nor did we ever really do anything meaningful to satisfy the entreaties of other, weaker countries who were basically supplicants, asking or suggesting that we do something, stop doing something, or give them something we had and they didn't.

None of the panelists could see that changing anytime in the foreseeable future. China knows that they are growing their economy at a rate that has already surpassed Japan as a world economic power and will likely displace even the U.S. in a decade or so. It appears that one of their next steps is to quickly build their military capabilities with the objective of, if not equaling U.S. capabilities, at least neutralizing any advantage we may currently have. All this at the same time that they effectively "control" our political leaders because they are funding our government and know that they can very easily apply pressure on us at any time by simply tightening their willingness to roll over or buy more of our government debt.

With all this happening our erstwhile elected representatives are making a big deal about whether or not they will agree to sit next to one another at the State of the Union address and arguing about repealing a piece of legislation that clearly cannot be accomplished. It's pretty easy to see how history is going to record the rise and fall of the U.S. as a world power...pretty much the same way as it recorded the rise and fall of the British empire.

And as you point out in the initial post here, it is probably already too late to reverse the end result. We are being surpassed in lots of ways and it's probably already too late to reverse the trend.

There are those that will say, no no, the U.S. is the greatest country in the world, with the strongest economy, the best system of government, the most lethal military, the best healthcare, the best schools, the happiest people, and on and on. It's pretty obvious to anyone who takes time to see what's happening to understand that is very much a backward-looking view, and a refusal to see what the future so clearly holds for us. There's a reason why the majority of Americans now believe that they've lived a better life than future generations of Americans will. I wish it were otherwise, not so much for me but for my children and grandchildren.

Originally Posted by billethkid

The front page of the Drudge report shows a picture of Obama shaking hands with the leader of China and he once again APPEARS to be bowing.

Pick your poison. Bush was *kissing* Saudi princes and walking arm-in-arm with them. You remember Saudi Arabia? The place where 19 of 20 9/11 hijackers came from?

is uncalled for sarcasm, totally uncalled for to make a point!
Why does there have to be a spear in every defense of the opposition. And I have stopped wondering why Bush is always the base line...it has become boringly obvious.

btk

Wait a minute. Let me get this straight.

First off, it wasn't sarcasm. It was to point out that our Chief Executive has *always* been polite and deferential when greeting another head of state. The point was that this was nothing new. Your original point was that being nice to the head of China was bad because of what China is trying to do to us economically. My point was this was nothing different especially when compared to being deferential to a Head of State that has so adversely affected our country - not just 9/11 but with it's influence on world oil prices.

If you want to skewer Obama, then do it with something that he's doing DIFFERENT than EVERY OTHER PRESIDENT! You'll have an easier time defending your objections.

To be honest, I'm trying to HELP you.

"Your original point was that being nice to the head of China was bad because of what China is trying to do to us economically."
Pleas help me by showing me where I said it was bad.
You certainly did not read it in my post.

Right or wrong....my perception of how the head of a super power presents himself is to not act in a subordinate appearing manner. That is my view...my opinion...based on far too many years of meeting the top guy in too many countries and being coached by some of the best. And yes there is a time and place for custom, we all know that.

If you view that as bad....that is YOUR choice, but please don't present it as my statement.....as one can easily see...it is not.

btk

You lumped the picture of Obama and Hu with your comments about how China has no internal partisan competition and isn't the first in aid when international disaster strike. You also said, about us in comparison, "I fear we are only capable of getting out of the way....unfortunately"

That seems to be the opinion of a person who would characterize those items, colelctively, as pretty bad to me.

my words to your belief:

"That seems to be the opinion of a person who would characterize those items, colelctively, as pretty bad to me."

It was not what I posted!

btk

Of course there are all kinds of dimensions to the U.S. relationship with China. But does it need to be much more complicated than the fact that China holds almost $900 billion in U.S. Treasury bonds, notes and bills? That and we know for sure that we're going to have to borrow more from them because, very simply, our government will continue to spend more than we take in.

In total, lenders from Japan and China hold 44% of U.S. foreign-owned debt. This exposure to potential financial or political risk should foreign banks stop buying Treasury securities or start selling them heavily was addressed in a recent report issued by the Bank of International Settlements, which stated, "'Foreign investors in U.S. dollar assets have seen big losses measured in dollars, and still bigger ones measured in their own currency. While unlikely, a sudden rush for the exits cannot be ruled out completely."

Dr. John Rutledge, one of the principal architects of President Reagan's economic plan in 1980-81 and an adviser to the Bush White House on tax policy recently said the following...

China is not going to stop buying U.S. securities but they have become our biggest creditor–too big to ignore what they are thinking. China is concerned that the U.S. government is spending too much money, that our budget deficits are too big, that our debt is growing too fast, and especially that the Fed has printed so much money in the last year we will have significant inflation in the future. Their government has not decided what they can do to protect their investments in the U.S., but are actively evaluating what their strategy should be.

So is our welcome to the Chinese President with a state dinner and much pomp and circumstance any more complicated than being nice to the lender to whom you owe a huge amount of money, knowing that you will need to borrow a whole lot more in future years?

It's pretty simple really.

Originally Posted by billethkid

my words to your belief:

"That seems to be the opinion of a person who would characterize those items, colelctively, as pretty bad to me."

It was not what I posted!

btk

If I read too much into your post, for that, I apologize.

The quickest way to lose a golf match is to pay more attention to your competitors game than to yours. Need I say more. America can maintain its exceptional position provided it continues to be exceptional. However we have a President that continues to spur America's exceptionalism at every turn. America needs to spend more in areas of defense and facilitate the private sector in research and development, pro-growth economic policies and natural resources development to run our factories and heat our homes.

What I have yet to see this president do is say something and then follow up to make what he says come to pass.
I really do believe he feels if he talks about a given subject he has done his job.

Some efforts you suggest would contain employment opportunities to make these things available to we the people.

We need direction as in when Kennedy stated we will go to the moon. Then every effort was expended to make it happen. New research yielded all kinds of benefits for mankind. Jobs by the multi thousands were created as a result.
And we gained and retained leadership in space related technologies.

We can see the demise of this specific industry during Obama's watch. And the resultant deterioration of the gains/leadership/employment.

It would be so easy to breath life into that industry.
Energy independence....just loaded with opportunity to become energy independent, create all kinds of related manufacturing/research jobs and maintain our independent leadership in the world.

Stick ones neck out leadership complete and totally absent!!

btk

Originally Posted by billethkid

with absolutely no hope of recovering, challenging or even marking time as-is.

China has the money, the people, THE PLAN, the leadership, objectives, a huge manufacturing base, patience and no internal partisan competition with the good of the country as it's prime objective. Not necessarily the good of the people but their country is the priority...not the individual...not a politician...or a partisan division. They are also not first in line to provide financial or any other kind of aid to every 0one that has their hand out.

The following article does an excellent job of portraying China as a very competent world leader that will easily displace the USA as the pre-eminent super power in the world:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b852a826-2...#axzz1BP26Iw1Y

And they will do it without even having to fire a shot.

The front page of the Drudge report shows a picture of Obama shaking hands with the leader of China and he once again APPEARS to be bowing.

Our country will always be the greatest place on earth to live, however our position in the world will be substantially different.

In that familiar trilogy of lead, follow or get out of the way, I fear we are only capable of getting out of the way....unfortunately.

I would like to hear others opinions/perceptions of the future and China.

btk

He appears to be bowing only because he is about a foot-and-a-half taller...just like most of us bow or bend over when we shake hands with our grandchildren, for Pete's sake. Get over it and stop reaching for silly nonsense to criticize him. Stick to policy stuff, already.

On MSNBC.COM yesterday I saw a VERY surprising fact.

Who do you think is #1 in manufacturing?

Hints: $1.7T (yes, Trillion) in manufacturing output. #1 is a full 40% higher than #2.

#1 - The United States of America
#2 - The People's Republic of China

My wife immediately asked how this could be when we buy so much cheap crap from China. The gist of the article says that China makes cheap crap while we build jet airplanes and the like.

The proposition in the article is that *automation* has killed far more manufacturing jobs than 'outsourcing'.