The odd thing is, they will deny having a double standard.* What do you think of this analogy?

"Imagine in 1999, that a videotape had come to light showing the pastor of Texas Gov. George W. Bush's church making vicious, hateful comments about America and cruel, racist statements about Americans of color.

"Suppose this preacher had given a lifetime achievement award to former Ku Klux Klan leader David Duke, and had traveled to Europe with Duke to meet with neo-Nazi terrorists.

"Now try to envision that the candidate's family had attended this church for more than twenty years, that George and Laura Bush had been married there, by this pastor, and that the Bush daughters had been baptized by him.

"Picture George Bush titling his autobiography after a phrase in one of this minister's sermons, writing that the man was his mentor, and then putting him on the presidential campaign staff as a trusted advisor and confidant.

"Say it came to light that for several years George W. Bush had been friends with Eric Rudolph, the notorious Olympic Park bomber and anti-abortion terrorist. Furthermore, let's suppose that Bush had remained friends with Rudolph over the years and still considered him a colleague today.

"Now imagine Laura Bush, on the campaign trail for her husband, telling supporters and the national media that America is "mean" and that for the first time in her adult life she was proud of her country.

"Is there a doubt that Republican officeholders would have run from the Bush campaign like rats from a burning barn, that he would have become the political leper of the 2000 campaign? And what about the media? They virtually crucified candidate Bush that year for daring to give a speech at Bob Jones University, which had once banned interracial dating. I cannot imagine the field day they would have had with something like this.

"And yet excuses are made for Barack Obama, who now finds himself in exactly this situation. Obama's pastor of more than two decades - the man who married Barack and Michelle Obama, who christened their daughters, who inspired the title of the candidate's book, "The Audacity of Hope," - is now at the center of a storm that would have destroyed the candidacy of any Republican the day the story broke.

"Rev. Jeremiah Wright, pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago for the last 36 years, has been caught on tape denouncing the United States and the white race in terms that should shock and disgust every thinking American. Wright and the church swear allegiance to the "mother country" - Africa. (Presumably this includes the Obama family.)

"Rather than trying to infuse his congregation with hope and encouragement, Wright poisons them with vitriol about how the U.S. government has tried to commit genocide against the black community using drugs and the AIDS virus as weapons of choice.

""Don't say God bless America," Wright screams in one sermon. "God damn America!"

"Wright, representing the church, bestowed a lifetime achievement award on Louis Farrakhan, the racist leader of the Nation of Islam. In the 1980s, Wright traveled to Libya with Farrakhan to meet with Muammar Gaddafi.

"If Barack Obama has not been paying attention in church, it is apparent that his wife, Michelle, has. Campaigning for her husband recently, she said that for the first time in her adult life, she is finally proud of her country. In a separate speech, she said America is "a mean country."

"Obama is friends with William Ayers, an admitted domestic terrorist with the Weather Underground, which declared war on the United States and claimed responsibility for bombing several government buildings, including the Pentagon and the State Department building, in the 1970s. In an interview with The New York Times, ironically published on the morning of September 11, 2001, Ayers was quoted as saying, "I don't regret setting bombs; I feel we didn't do enough."

"Now a tenured professor at the University of Chicago (only in America!), Ayers met Barack Obama in the 1990s. They have remained friends ever since.

"We are judged not just by our words, but by the company we keep. The litmus test should not be whether or not everyone a candidate knows is ideal. That is an impossible standard. The true measure of a man is in his ability to choose friends with which he can be proud to stand shoulder to shoulder, not those about whom he must equivocate and for whom he must apologize."

Author not known.

What is it that makes supporters of Obama oblivious to the fact that he surrounded himself with haters of America??? For God's sake America, wake up and smell the hate he represents before you find yourself beheaded for not bowing to the east

Handie :joke:

Gfmucci, Well said!! It seems as though the media is blind to the facts. Not surprising at all.

Handi, what in the world is in the water up there???? Your statement about us being beheaded is bordering on hysteria. We are by far to well armed as a country. I can't believe the vitriol of this thread. We stand a better chance of bowing to the east if McCain goes into Iran. Did you listen to our Generals?

Originally Posted by handieman

What is it that makes supporters of Obama oblivious to the fact that he surrounded himself with haters of America??? For God's sake America, wake up and smell the hate he represents before you find yourself beheaded for not bowing to the east

Handie :joke:

OMG! Thank you Sam! You are right on target. :bigthumbsup:

Sam, Chels, I think we're wasting our breath posting here. In my opinion, these seem to be some right wing fringe elements that defy logic: Obama hates America, that's why he's running for President. I mean, is it even worth replying to something like that?

I think we need to get our political discussions back to the issues and things that are real, and what really matter. Just my opinion.

Lil dancer,
I so agree!!!That is why I refuse to waste my time.

You change no one's mind on these forums. You only end up disliking or disrespecting one another. I am always fascinated though, by our differences in beliefs/opinions. How does one person come to believe so strongly in "her" view, and someone else's view be so diametrically opposed to that view. We all have the same input sources available to us. I read the right, left and middle plus several foreign papers almost daily. My thoughts are based on a wide variety of sources and history. It's a shame things can't be discussed at length with point/counterpoint so we all end up with some consensus . We may both learn something new and garner a fuller understanding of the world at large.
The amount of hate in this country amazes me. Instead of working toward understanding with knowledge, many form radical beliefs based on very little actual fact.
Keep your drawers on Handi, I am not referring to you.

I don't know about you, but I'd hate to be tarred and feathered because of my choice of friends. The majority of my friends are liberal -- some are black, some are Asian, many are Caucasian. I have friends that are Hispanic, and, yes, one is an illegal and one of the hardest workers and finest men I've ever had the pleasure of meeting.

In college, one of my buddies was Lou Alcindor. He introduced me to the guy I dated most of college. It broke my heart when he became a Black Muslim because I knew that was the end of our friendship. Fortunately, he changed as he got older and we now correspond via email on occasion. I do have friends that were draft dodgers during the Vietnam era. One woman that I truly like and admire was very active in the Weathermen. I'm sure she's on one or two wanted lists even today. I've volunteered at a federal prison and have met some women there that have committed some pretty serious felonies. I actually keep in contact with three of them. One is a die-hard gangbanger. A beautiful young woman, intelligent and hard as nails.

I volunteer on death penalty appeals. My sympathy definitely lies with the men and women who are going to die while I cry for the victims and their families. No question they have done horrific things but most have had lives that are unbelievable. To murder someone in the name of the State who has the IQ of a 10 year old, barely can write his own name, has only a rudimentary grasp of right and wrong is just wrong to me. Some of the ACLU attorneys that I work with have made comments that would make Rev. White's remarks seem completely innocent.

I don't have a spiritual advisor but if I did I'm sure comments would be made that would be disliked by many. I'm even willing to bet that President Bush's pastor has said things that would be considered inappropriate by the majority of people.

I am very opposed to violence. I was very anti-Vietnam but totally supportive of the troops that were there. My ex-husband was a GASP! diehard Republican (and if you think my friends didn't have a hissy fit when I married him, think again). I truly disliked the Black Muslim organization -- heck, I dislike anything that creates a segregation. Obviously, I'm pro gay rights and pro choice. One of my friends here in TV is a member of a fundamentalist church. She is a very sweet woman and I like her a lot. She asked me to go to an anti-abortion rally with her because she was ill and was afraid she would need someone to take her home. Guess what? I did it. I didn't carry a sign. I stook on the sidelines and supported her and her right to feel as she did.

The point is we're all human. Yes, we choose our friends but that doesn't mean we agree with everything they say and do. Many of us will even support our friends' and enemies' right to say what they will. Why do so many conservatives feel only their way is the right way? Rather than making a choice on the words and deeds of a man or woman, someone is rejected based on half-truths, innuendoes, rumors and serious fear-mongering.

I'm not convinced Obama is the best choice to lead America but to claim that Muslims will be dancing in the streets and the implication that he will sell out this great nation to the Middle East is, in my opinion, not just unreasonable but downright ludicrous and should not be a part of this election.

Sam, I'm with you -- I read all viewpoints and try to keep my mind open enough to learn. Heck, I even change my mind at times.

gfmucci:

me thinks you hit the nail on the head. :bigthumbsup:

Originally Posted by redwitch

I don't know about you, but I'd hate to be tarred and feathered because of my choice of friends. The majority of my friends are liberal -- some are black, some are Asian, many are Caucasian. I have friends that are Hispanic, and, yes, one is an illegal and one of the hardest workers and finest men I've ever had the pleasure of meeting.

In college, one of my buddies was Lou Alcindor. He introduced me to the guy I dated most of college. It broke my heart when he became a Black Muslim because I knew that was the end of our friendship. Fortunately, he changed as he got older and we now correspond via email on occasion. I do have friends that were draft dodgers during the Vietnam era. One woman that I truly like and admire was very active in the Weathermen. I'm sure she's on one or two wanted lists even today. I've volunteered at a federal prison and have met some women there that have committed some pretty serious felonies. I actually keep in contact with three of them. One is a die-hard gangbanger. A beautiful young woman, intelligent and hard as nails.

I volunteer on death penalty appeals. My sympathy definitely lies with the men and women who are going to die while I cry for the victims and their families. No question they have done horrific things but most have had lives that are unbelievable. To murder someone in the name of the State who has the IQ of a 10 year old, barely can write his own name, has only a rudimentary grasp of right and wrong is just wrong to me. Some of the ACLU attorneys that I work with have made comments that would make Rev. White's remarks seem completely innocent.

I don't have a spiritual advisor but if I did I'm sure comments would be made that would be disliked by many. I'm even willing to bet that President Bush's pastor has said things that would be considered inappropriate by the majority of people.

I am very opposed to violence. I was very anti-Vietnam but totally supportive of the troops that were there. My ex-husband was a GASP! diehard Republican (and if you think my friends didn't have a hissy fit when I married him, think again). I truly disliked the Black Muslim organization -- heck, I dislike anything that creates a segregation. Obviously, I'm pro gay rights and pro choice. One of my friends here in TV is a member of a fundamentalist church. She is a very sweet woman and I like her a lot. She asked me to go to an anti-abortion rally with her because she was ill and was afraid she would need someone to take her home. Guess what? I did it. I didn't carry a sign. I stook on the sidelines and supported her and her right to feel as she did.

The point is we're all human. Yes, we choose our friends but that doesn't mean we agree with everything they say and do. Many of us will even support our friends' and enemies' right to say what they will. Why do so many conservatives feel only their way is the right way? Rather than making a choice on the words and deeds of a man or woman, someone is rejected based on half-truths, innuendoes, rumors and serious fear-mongering.

I'm not convinced Obama is the best choice to lead America but to claim that Muslims will be dancing in the streets and the implication that he will sell out this great nation to the Middle East is, in my opinion, not just unreasonable but downright ludicrous and should not be a part of this election.

Sam, I'm with you -- I read all viewpoints and try to keep my mind open enough to learn. Heck, I even change my mind at times.

Very eloquent, Redwitch. You sound very open-minded.

Politics and religion...there is no right or wrong....only what you as an individual believe.
It only gets a little raspy when others need or want others to buy their concept.
It is an individual choice.

Consensus...leads to nothing. That is why most democratic entities world wide choose the majority rules. And when that doesn't happen a leader needs to step in and call it.

Right or wrong used to be the norm but has been watered down and emasculated with the overly popular notion of political correctness (the notion one doesn't have to do what's right ...only what looks good....feels good...makes 'em look good to others....etc :: ).

BTK

Originally Posted by samhass

Handi, what in the world is in the water up there???? Your statement about us being beheaded is bordering on hysteria. We are by far to well armed as a country. I can't believe the vitriol of this thread. We stand a better chance of bowing to the east if McCain goes into Iran. Did you listen to our Generals?

As long as I'm in this deep I might as well suggest we all negotiate with terrorists and forgive the perpetrators of 9/11. Sorry kids I am not, I repeat NOT politically correct in my opinions. In 1960 I signed a document that stated that I was willing to give my life for my country, and the in the following 4 years I gave my country my best efforts so that you have the right to vote for whomever you please and say whatever you feel. I pray to God that I never have to say to you "I told you so".

Don't take me as bigoted and biased, I represent my forefathers, those rich plantation owners who owned slaves and gave only white men the right to vote and then declared that "all men are created equal and endowed with certain................ go figure. Ge-ssh I gotta stop this posting, my blood pressure was perfect yesterday 024

OK OK I'm done..........I think

Handie :joke:

Problem with blog is any thing can be said...much of it totally untrue. Also, some people just throw out labels and generalizations. My ancestors WERE the fore fathers of this country and every generation has fought and Died for this country.
Today, I see most of the problems this country has is because of very poor leadership.(Yes Bush-even his party including Mcain says that. ) We have had good and bad leaders in both parties. I really respect Samhass and Redwitch. But I am afraid talking about politics here is a waste time. How about the price of gas...

So, is it now declared that the old adage "we are known by the company we keep" is no longer true?

There is a point when the mind is so open it becomes a gutter.

I thought primarily the X and Y generation folks had a difficult time with these "old fashioned" concepts: like patriotism, still believing that there is such a thing as right and wrong.* Ooops, I forgot, I am one those nerdy types who was a military patriot in the late 60's while the open minded ones were protesting just about everything.* I'll now retreat to my little cave under the flag...for a minute or two. ;D