Richie, I hate to have to teach you Constitutional Law for free.

The founding fathers of this country included slave owners. Slaves were not allowed to vote. The non-slave owners wanted to exclude slaves completely from population when deciding the number of representatives to Congress. The slave holding states did not agree. Therefore, the 3/5 compromise was reached with slaves being counted as 3/5 of a person.

It was not until the 13th Amendment was adopted in 1865 that slavery in the USA was outlawed. It was not until the 15th Amendment was ratified in 1870 that minorities were allowed to vote. This was about 100 years after the Constitution was written.

Your quote to me of "I don't think you're going to find "protection of slavery" in the Declaration or the Constitution." is right. No where did I say that, either. I said that, "... they want the country to be like the founding fathers envisioned and do forget that slavery was allowed, women could not vote as neither could minorities." Whenever I see one of the Republican candidates or people saying he wants to take the country back to the same way our founding fathers had envisioned it, I cannot help but feel these candidates or people have not come to accept the fact the Constitution has evolved over the years - and this includes the abolition of slavery and the right to vote guaranteed to all citizens. If you are going to atribute a quote to me, please do it correctly.

I certainly do not need you to give me an interpretation of the 2nd Amendment.

Buggy, you're going off the deep end and there's no water in the pool. Look at my post that you commented on above; I said "founding principles"....that's it, nothing else.

You extrapolated that to mean much more than I intended and that's YOUR mistake. I said exactly what I meant to say and even DJ, who disagrees with me more often than not, had to agree to that point.

As to quoting you correctly: Again you're cracking up. In your misinterpretation of my simple wish for returning to the Founding Principles, YOU brought up slavery as if that blot on history negated them. YOU BROUGHT UP SLAVERY..... I merely pointed out to you that "protection of slavery" was not a Founding Principle. Calm down "over zealous one, calm down".....

The Founding Principles.........they're the greatest words ever written this side of the Holy Bible. The people who wrote them had flaws, but the "principles" have none.

I did go back and look at your post where you said you wanted the founding principles to be followed. My fault for the wrong assumption. I presume you mean, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Once again, I have to bring up slavery. If the drafters of the Declaration of Independence stated that it is self-evident that all men are created equal and their Creator endowed them with unalienable rights to include Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness - how do you hold it to be self-evident if there were human slaves held by some of these people when the document was written? Slaves were not considered to be equal (3/5 of a person), and I am pretty sure a slave was not allowed his/her liberty and also pretty sure they did not get the pursuit of happiness very often.

IF the words had been backed up by the Bill of Rights instead of having to wait about 100 years to be enforced with a Constitutional Amendment, those words would have meant a lot more. In other words, words alone are not enough for a country; the words have to be backed up by the appropriate action.

For goodness sakes buggy - have you not seen early drafts of the Declaration? Jefferson *clearly* wanted to outlaw slavery but there was *no* way the southern colonies would vote for the Declaration if he included it.

Here's the paragraph that Jefferson had to exclude:

*That* is what Jefferson wrote on the subject. I know it conflicts with him owning slaves (like Washington and others) and the fact that many of his papers were destroyed after his death means we'll NEVER know what he might have done had slavery been abolished from the beginning.

I don't want to get twisted into debating you on your hysteria, when you know what I was driving at. You want to "divert" the conversation and I won't have it.

DJ has laid out the issue to your "troubles" with our Founding Principles quite clearly and I really don't have anything to add to his diligent homework on this.

Dumpublicans?

No wonder Obama got elected, we had first graders voting for him. Sheesh.

Aww c'mon; Buggy put a lot of time under the thinking hat to come up with that one. He's hoping you at least snickered before getting serious on him again :)

Plong does show a paragraph that was excluded for political purposes. However, it does not explain the disconnect between the words that Jefferson wrote and the fact he, himself, was a slave owner. Once again, words are nothing without the action of which they speak.

Richie...you ask people with whom you do not agree to cite data. I now ask you to cite data and sources for your claim.

I think I've already provided that. Do I have to do everything around here?

This is NOT the worst Recession since the 1930's
 

This thread began with the oft repeated, but untrue assertion that the economy Obama inherited was the worst since the great depression. The worst economy was the one inherited by Ronald Reagan. It had not only high unemployment but runaway inflation and exorbedant interest rates as well.

When Reagan took office unemployment was at 7.1%; when Obama took office it was at 4.9%.

Unemployment under Reagan was to peak at 10.7%; under Obama 10.2%.

At this point in Reagan's first term unemployment was at 7.5%; under Obama 8.3%.

President Reagan and Fed Chairman, Paul Volcker, recognized that unemployment was not the biggest problem but rather inflation. Inflation was destroying the savings of Americans, especially seniors, who had no way to combat the destruction of their life savings. Reagan inherited an inflation rate of 13.9% that was to peak at 14.8%. In February of 1984 it was down to 4.6%.

President Obama inherited an inflation rate of 3.9% which is now down to 2.9%

President Reagan came into office with a Federal Funds Rate of 14.1% that was to peak at 19.1% and be at 9.6% at this point in his term. 30 year mortgages carried interest rates of 18-20% when he came into office.

President Obama came into office with a Federal Funds Rate of 3.9% which is now at 0%. While mortgages are now at all-time lows keeping them there will again release the plague of inflation.

One method of reviving the economy has worked; one has not. I suggest we go back to the one that worked - that of President Reagan and abandon the one that has not - that of President Obama.

A statement by buggyone that I continuously advocate measuring all politicians:

"Once again, words are nothing without the action of which they speak."

Well done:BigApplause:

btk