Re: Energy Independence
 

As just another reminder that we need to focus efforts on energy independence, please read today's announcement by the Chairman of GM. Looking at the cuts closely, it states that their plans include the following:

-Reducing U.S. and Canada salaried headcount in 2008
-Beginning in 2009, eliminating health care coverage for U.S. salaried retirees over 65, partially offset by pension increases

http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayS...74&docid=47124

Because GM focused on short-term profits from SUV and truck sales, retiree benefits are now being cut. While GM is closing plants, Toyota is converting their truck plants in the US to small vehicle manufacturing facilities.

Unfortunately some people do not realize (or maybe care) what is happening till it hits home. I truly feel badly for the GM retirees who will be effected by these cost cuts.

Re: Energy Independence
 

When HB was composing her first posting on this thread and asked me some questions about the specific energy improvements we'd done to our New York State home (we left out our boiler that burns 'good ole American coal'...), I told her that I hadn't even seen the thread. She sent me the link, and now I know why: I have NEVER opened or looked at the political forum. Reading through much of this thread, it validates my feeling of not wanting to spend time here....

There are undeniable facts about today's problems concerning inaction--and worse--during the past 35 years since the first energy crunch (yes, it was 1973); one that directly affected us personally was our having to rush to install our solar water system because all consideration of credits, grants, alternative forms of energy were done away with in the mid-1980s. This is not a political statement; this is a FACT. We took advantage of them and installed our system a week before the abolishing of this alternative energy focus.

Sometimes in content but more in attitude are posters' general political views obvious. For example, HB's comment that says more or less, 'We ourselves are managing but I'm concerned about those who will suddenly be facing more than double heating costs in just a few months.' For me over the years, based on my volunteer work with Hospice, it's been 'We personally have excellent health insurance but are extremely concerned about [i think it's up to] 47,000,000 million fellow Americans who have no coverage.' This is all well and good, but ...

... TODAY'S ENERGY ISSUES SHOULD NOT BE A PARTISAN POLITICAL ISSUE!!! We can plainly see 'out there' and even here on TOTV that nothing gets accomplished by political posturing and bickering. To expect responsibility from the government doesn't mean that it has to be partisan political. Thank you, Travel, for the contact information of our elected officials; writing to them and expressing our views on the current energy problem is NOT political, as it makes no difference whom we actually voted for--these are OUR elected officials. Lifestyle issues are personal, whether it's choosing a car with better gas mileage for whatever reason (ranging from greater savings in the pocketbook to environmental concerns) or preferring a car with no regard for gas mileage but rather other considerations; or recycling soda cans and newspapers versus putting them out with the rest of the trash; or (those of us owning homes in cold winter areas) heating with foreign-supplied oil versus good old American wood and coal. Granted, our lifestyle choice may serve as 'power of example' to others, but the present problem is bigger than any one of us can take on individually.

Gasoline reached $4/gallon, and other than griping about it, as pointed out, nothing is being done about it. Boy, if there were a way to turn television off throughout the country for 72 hours, if I were a wagering person I'd bet that people would take to the streets! Sorry to sound cynical, but I say this IMHO....

Re: Energy Independence
 

What is IMHO?

Re: Energy Independence
 

In My Humble Opinion

HB

Re: Energy Independence
 

Regardless of your polital or presidential preference, I'd like to share something that I find phenomenal. An oil billionair is putting his personal fortune on the line, betting on alternative energy. T Boone Pickens is trying to start a grass roots movement to help make America energy independent. Not with more oil, but with wind. Please check out his web site. Mr. Pickens is certainly no crack pot. He may be on to something. He's also no fool. He knows there is financial opportunity in alternative energy. How many of you would be willing to take your oil holdings and cash them in for alternative energy? Don't worry, that was just a rhetorical question. Please do go out and see what Mr. Pickens proposes. You might find it interesting as well.

http://www.pickensplan.com/

Re: Energy Independence
 

Hi Jim, when we were in California we visited a wind farm. Our guide could not understand why Americans would not want to switch to wind power as a means of using the natural environment to produce electricity.

Thanks for posting the info.

HB

Re: Energy Independence
 

I merely said some things will work and some things wont work (read above). As far as I am concerned, I agree that we should be trying absolutely everything but Nuclear (because that is the only one that is not safe...and this is about maintaining our standard of living AND living). But the rest, lets take all the efforts of the national and just do this thing. You would be surprised how much power the villages has, all the presidents come here. Lets set up a huge showing of energy independence at the next one! Each person can ask the 'town hall meeting question', McCain: "I know you are going to allow more drilling, but that is only a small part of the solution, what else are you going to do" Obama: "I know you will try to curve demand through long term reductions on fuel consumption, but that is only one small piece of the puzzle. What else are you going to do?"

Maybe by the 10th or 15th time someone asks again, saying they were not satisfied with the answer before, the candidates will get the picture that this is a real issue....

Re: Energy Independence
 

It is the Pickens ad that is an inspiration and where I got my numbers for previous posts.
If one has not been in an area where the wind "farms" are, you can not have any appreciation for the majesty of these machines. They are spaced in many areas throughout CA.....most objections are emotional as NIMBY...from a practical perspective to not be exploiting it today is as moronic as not drilling on USA oil fields.
The psychological impact of an announcement by the USA that they are opening all it's lands to oil exploration, wind farm placement, clean coal applications and shale oil exploitation.....effective immediately....would be significant in both the short and long run. Short run because it will signal OPEC we are finally going to do something about it. They of course will counter with increasing output and lowering prices as they have in past crises. But this time we need to stand our ground and not give up on the alternatives.....like we did each and every time in the past!!!!!

Long term....5-10 years out we will be a more secure nation energy wise.
Whether prices are lower or not will depend largely on the greed factors of those who invest in all the above. Either way we will be better off......
Our job now is to get behind the ground swell that is forming and keep hammering the partisan blabbering when ever it surfaces to avoid the usual get nothing done syndrome.

Keep after family, friends and neighbors to write their local and federal representatives. Stand and be counted.....yes we are sick and tired of the energy do nothing and we are not going to take it anymore.

All the other ills of the economy and jobs will fall in line very quickly. Wars? As long as man frequents the earth there will be war some where!!!!

BTK

Re: Energy Independence
 

We have a home in upstate NY where wind power is slowly making inroads. I'm personally in favor of harnessing this natural resource. You would think everyone would embrace it - guess again! There is a very vocal contingent that is against it - the windmills are unsightly and ruin the landscape; if you look at a windmill for too long you'll get dizzy; they are noisy; etc. I guess you can't please everybody.

Re: Energy Independence
 

Lil Dancer,

We live in the Mid Hudson Valley of NY and travel toward the Buffalo-Rochester area at least once a year.

We have seen many signs posted on people's lawns stating they do not want wind generators and others that state they want wind power. In some areas the windgenerators are already in place.

There are so many unnatural tall structures going up along the roads, some made to look like Norfold Pine trees, and yet we have never seen a sign posted on a lawn about them.

It feels like people want to pick and choose which tall structures are okay. Tall electrical transmissions towers do not seem to create a hue and cry in some areas although there have been many questions raised about the increase of cancer due to these transmission towers.

We have visited wind farms and are impressed with the amount of electricity they produce.

HB

Re: Energy Independence
 

What it is about wind generators that tear apart a town--pro and con--I cannot understand. We saw this in Perry, NY last summer when we were there, yet nearby on the hills above Warsaw, NY (the Wyoming County seat) the wind generators are 'purring' away. As pointed out earlier, they are majestic looking pieces of machinery that remind me, in the natural world, of saguaro cacti.

Unfortunately, when it comes to change like this, we have to contend with those people who, in the same breath say, "Geez, my cell phone service stinks! With today's technology why can't it be improved?" and then later say, "What? A cell phone tower?! Here?! Not in my backyard!!!"

What's that iine about "We can all hang together, or we can hang separately...."? Yes, Virginia, we really do have a problem!

Re: Energy Independence
 

One problem (the only one I can see) is bird migration patterns. In parts of California, birds have been known to fly into them. This seems solvable with some engineering though (fans are made kid safe aren't they). And yes, I do think this is a valid concern, nonetheless very solvable.

As far as people who think they are ugly. My wild guess is that when they look at their bills that are 25% higher, you will see the tide shift. That really is an American trait (maybe a human one), wait until it hurts before you agree. (If I am wrong, wait until their bill doubles)

Re: Energy Independence
 

There have been several studies on wind turbines and their effect on radar systems. Am not sure which will win out in the end, or where, but there are definite issues with the turbines which require siting considerations.

Political Update - PLEASE read - Lack of response by elected officials
 

About two weeks ago I wrote to all of the elected representatives listed in the quote below regarding energy independence issues. Regardless of your political leanings (I am an Independent), I thought you would all want to know that to date I have only received a reply from ONE of the representatives I had contacted -

Rep. Paige Kreegel
District 72
Punta Gorda Office- (941) 575-5820
Tallahassee Office- (850) 488-9175

Whether I agree with his position or not, he is the ONLY one who even acknowledged my communication. PLEASE TAKE NOTE OF THIS WHEN YOU CONSIDER WHOM YOU WILL RE-ELECT.

Has anyone else had a similar experience, and what do you plan to do about it? Suggestions are more than welcome!

Re: Energy Independence
 

Because of my concern about energy I did go to Pickens web site and was impressed. You don't need a tall wind mill you can install a small one on your roof that isn't too obtrusive. I saw it on HGTV. Just think it we all did our own solar and wind how much we could cut our carbon footprint.

Re: Energy Independence
 

Travel, thank you for your posting.

30 years ago when the federal government had tax incentives for home owners to make their homes less dependent on fossil fuel we had solar panels put on our roof. They have more than paid for themselves.

It was President Regan who did away with these tax credits.

Where we live in NY neighbors have put in the large solar panel units for electricity and are glad they did so.

We have all this knowledge on how to decrease our carbon foot print, yet the government would rather spend money on exploration of oil instead of assisting home owners with the cost of installation of any solar units.

HB

Re: Energy Independence
 

HB -
You and Sidney are innovators and what is known as "early adapters" in the marketing field. Congratulations to you on being proactive in dealing with your energy use.
I am disappointed that so few TOTVers have commented on the fact that most of the elected representatives discussed didn't even acknowledge the correspondence.
Unfortunately, this is why so little is accomplished in our legislature - so few citizens take the time to write, call, email...or maybe even care.
I hope I am wrong, and that the next generation demands more.

Re: Energy Independence
 

The responses on this post are so typical of the divisions perpetuated by partisans in this country. Because "golfpro" wants to be let alone to live his life as he chooses, he must be Republican like George Bush. Nevermind that George Bush lives in a home that is totally independent and uses, wind power, solar power, reuses waste water and does all the things necessary to "save the planet for the children". While Al Gore who runs around telling everyone else how to live, has a house that uses as much electric in a month as 2000 more modest homes use in a year.
Those of you who want to drive a Prius, please do so. If you want to save money and use solar power or wind power or whatever in your homes, thank god that you live in a country that allows you to make these choices. Don't pretend, however, you are doing this for any one but yourselves.
Taxes and tax money were supposed to be used to fund the necessary functions of government, not support a lifestyle we choose to enjoy. Oh that we could get back to the foundations of our constitution.
We used to come to consensus by the use of persuasion and reasoned debate. Trying to cast guilt and name calling have replaced this. A sorry spectacle.

Re: Energy Independence
 

georgea,

We drive a Prius and do everything that we can not only to save money but to preserve the earth for our children.

If we had the disposable income to do all the things we would like to do to save our planet we would.

We have no need to pretend why we are doing the above, we are honest and open about it. Are you honest and open why you do things?

If for some reason you feel guilty - than I suggest you look into yourself and see what makes you feel that way.

Curious - you state "Taxes and tax money were supposed to be used to fund the necessary functions of government...." Does that include spending billions of dollars overseas that could be used here in our country?

There are millions of people in the United States who go hungry, cold, not enough medications for their illnesses, no access to medical care and the list goes on.

HB

Re: Energy Independence
 

georgea, Oh that we could get back the money spent in Iraq.


HB, hear, hear! :#1:

Re: Energy Independence
 

"Energy independence," the title of this thread, is something that has been extremely important to me not just because it's trendy or because of the increased cost of gasoline and heating oil (our northern home uses oil for heat when I'm not here and hence unable to burn good old American coal in our boiler). We were involved in this from the late '70s onward, and while much of our involvement benefited us, we felt, right or wrong, that it had the potential to benefit more than just ourselves. We did just about every retrofit we were able to do on our existing home until all consideration for all forms of alternative energy--grants, loans, research, any kind of focus at all--was done away with in the mid '80s.

I cannot help but notice that those people who claim to favor smaller government as, let's be honest, it relates to tax cuts for themselves are among those who, for example, build multimillion dollar homes on the ocean front--and they are the first to scream for government assistance when a hurricane comes and wipes away "their" beach and possibly even their home. Just curious: Is this irony? Or is it hypocrisy?

I honestly believe that many of the energy issues we are facing today stem from our being "encouraged" to use only oil and not consider alternative energy as even a small part of a solution. And IMHO we are paying a price for that today....

No one is saying that anyone HAS TO live a certain way insofar as energy usage is concerned. As pointed out earlier, we live in a country where we can "Damn the torpedoes; full speed ahead" (thank you, David Farragut...). And as I pointed out on another thread, I recognized along the way that it's not my place to judge the next person: "The job of God is taken already; and besides, I'm not qualified!"

Re: Energy Independence
 

Politics aside, energy DEPENDENCE is an issue facing all of us.
My spouse and I choose to live a reasonably comfortable life, but at the lowest carbon footprint that seems tolerable. It's cheaper too!

I think T.Boone Pickens is the man, quite a vision and I like to think America will support him and we'll get through this...... Barack, McCain and Congress aside.

I like the "Living with Ed" idea about a small wind turbine on every house, I'd love one.
I don't have enough knowledge about the process and cost, it's not really out in the public yet and I'm not a trendsetter - too many scams.

Anyway, this is THE most important issue facing us for the rest of our lives.
It affects us economically, militarily, socially, globally, and whatever other "ally" one wants to include.

Re: Energy Independence
 

Just to prove a point about the short-sightedness of our corporate executives, see the quote from GM's finance chief below.
If someone who is their finance chief was surprised by "one of the fast-changing markets" he has ever seen, what is he doing in the position of being responsible for the finances of a company that size and the investments of its shareholders?
The threat to our economy on oil dependence should not come as a surprise to anyone who can even recall the oil shortages of the 1970s. What a disgrace!

WSJ - Today
GM Paces Weak July Sales Reports With 26% Decline

"GM finance chief Ray Young said the auto industry has experienced "one of the fastest-changing markets" he has ever seen, while a Ford marketing executive predicted the second half of the year will be "more challenging than the first half as economic and credit conditions weaken."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1217...=djemalertNEWS