Hi Jim, when we were in California we visited a wind farm. Our guide could not understand why Americans would not want to switch to wind power as a means of using the natural environment to produce electricity.

Thanks for posting the info.

HB

Originally Posted by billethkid

I am pleased at most of the response to this very crucial subject (again) during a time (hopefully) when we can do something about it.

What is annoying in this post as in most in this forum segment, is the propensity by some, to CONTINUALLY, attempt to guide the discussion toward, partisan positioning, political referencing or incumbent/candidate bashing. All are entitled to their preferences and opinions. If we were in a quorum you would be kindly reminded....that is not the subject of this thread. It adds absolutely no value to the solution(s) and suggestions.
Whatever the belief or position or religion or race or political slant, the issue is what it is for years of neglect for the past 30 years and an attempt to place blame is like trying to step in the river in the same spot.

When one focusing on who said what or did what or not they miss the point....and we certainly would like that same cranial energy to contribute to the subject at hand....thank you.

BTK

I merely said some things will work and some things wont work (read above). As far as I am concerned, I agree that we should be trying absolutely everything but Nuclear (because that is the only one that is not safe...and this is about maintaining our standard of living AND living). But the rest, lets take all the efforts of the national and just do this thing. You would be surprised how much power the villages has, all the presidents come here. Lets set up a huge showing of energy independence at the next one! Each person can ask the 'town hall meeting question', McCain: "I know you are going to allow more drilling, but that is only a small part of the solution, what else are you going to do" Obama: "I know you will try to curve demand through long term reductions on fuel consumption, but that is only one small piece of the puzzle. What else are you going to do?"

Maybe by the 10th or 15th time someone asks again, saying they were not satisfied with the answer before, the candidates will get the picture that this is a real issue....

It is the Pickens ad that is an inspiration and where I got my numbers for previous posts.
If one has not been in an area where the wind "farms" are, you can not have any appreciation for the majesty of these machines. They are spaced in many areas throughout CA.....most objections are emotional as NIMBY...from a practical perspective to not be exploiting it today is as moronic as not drilling on USA oil fields.
The psychological impact of an announcement by the USA that they are opening all it's lands to oil exploration, wind farm placement, clean coal applications and shale oil exploitation.....effective immediately....would be significant in both the short and long run. Short run because it will signal OPEC we are finally going to do something about it. They of course will counter with increasing output and lowering prices as they have in past crises. But this time we need to stand our ground and not give up on the alternatives.....like we did each and every time in the past!!!!!

Long term....5-10 years out we will be a more secure nation energy wise.
Whether prices are lower or not will depend largely on the greed factors of those who invest in all the above. Either way we will be better off......
Our job now is to get behind the ground swell that is forming and keep hammering the partisan blabbering when ever it surfaces to avoid the usual get nothing done syndrome.

Keep after family, friends and neighbors to write their local and federal representatives. Stand and be counted.....yes we are sick and tired of the energy do nothing and we are not going to take it anymore.

All the other ills of the economy and jobs will fall in line very quickly. Wars? As long as man frequents the earth there will be war some where!!!!

BTK

We have a home in upstate NY where wind power is slowly making inroads. I'm personally in favor of harnessing this natural resource. You would think everyone would embrace it - guess again! There is a very vocal contingent that is against it - the windmills are unsightly and ruin the landscape; if you look at a windmill for too long you'll get dizzy; they are noisy; etc. I guess you can't please everybody.

Lil Dancer,

We live in the Mid Hudson Valley of NY and travel toward the Buffalo-Rochester area at least once a year.

We have seen many signs posted on people's lawns stating they do not want wind generators and others that state they want wind power. In some areas the windgenerators are already in place.

There are so many unnatural tall structures going up along the roads, some made to look like Norfold Pine trees, and yet we have never seen a sign posted on a lawn about them.

It feels like people want to pick and choose which tall structures are okay. Tall electrical transmissions towers do not seem to create a hue and cry in some areas although there have been many questions raised about the increase of cancer due to these transmission towers.

We have visited wind farms and are impressed with the amount of electricity they produce.

HB

What it is about wind generators that tear apart a town--pro and con--I cannot understand. We saw this in Perry, NY last summer when we were there, yet nearby on the hills above Warsaw, NY (the Wyoming County seat) the wind generators are 'purring' away. As pointed out earlier, they are majestic looking pieces of machinery that remind me, in the natural world, of saguaro cacti.

Unfortunately, when it comes to change like this, we have to contend with those people who, in the same breath say, "Geez, my cell phone service stinks! With today's technology why can't it be improved?" and then later say, "What? A cell phone tower?! Here?! Not in my backyard!!!"

What's that iine about "We can all hang together, or we can hang separately...."? Yes, Virginia, we really do have a problem!

Originally Posted by Sidney Lanier

What it is about wind generators that tear apart a town--pro and con--I cannot understand. We saw this in Perry, NY last summer when we were there, yet nearby on the hills above Warsaw, NY (the Wyoming County seat) the wind generators are 'purring' away. As pointed out earlier, they are majestic looking pieces of machinery that remind me, in the natural world, of saguaro cacti.

Unfortunately, when it comes to change like this, we have to contend with those people who, in the same breath say, "Geez, my cell phone service stinks! With today's technology why can't it be improved?" and then later say, "What? A cell phone tower?! Here?! Not in my backyard!!!"

What's that iine about "We can all hang together, or we can hang separately...."? Yes, Virginia, we really do have a problem!

One problem (the only one I can see) is bird migration patterns. In parts of California, birds have been known to fly into them. This seems solvable with some engineering though (fans are made kid safe aren't they). And yes, I do think this is a valid concern, nonetheless very solvable.

As far as people who think they are ugly. My wild guess is that when they look at their bills that are 25% higher, you will see the tide shift. That really is an American trait (maybe a human one), wait until it hurts before you agree. (If I am wrong, wait until their bill doubles)

Originally Posted by jeckyl

One problem (the only one I can see) is bird migration patterns. In parts of California, birds have been known to fly into them. This seems solvable with some engineering though (fans are made kid safe aren't they). And yes, I do think this is a valid concern, nonetheless very solvable.

As far as people who think they are ugly. My wild guess is that when they look at their bills that are 25% higher, you will see the tide shift. That really is an American trait (maybe a human one), wait until it hurts before you agree. (If I am wrong, wait until their bill doubles)

There have been several studies on wind turbines and their effect on radar systems. Am not sure which will win out in the end, or where, but there are definite issues with the turbines which require siting considerations.

About two weeks ago I wrote to all of the elected representatives listed in the quote below regarding energy independence issues. Regardless of your political leanings (I am an Independent), I thought you would all want to know that to date I have only received a reply from ONE of the representatives I had contacted -

Rep. Paige Kreegel
District 72
Punta Gorda Office- (941) 575-5820
Tallahassee Office- (850) 488-9175

Whether I agree with his position or not, he is the ONLY one who even acknowledged my communication. PLEASE TAKE NOTE OF THIS WHEN YOU CONSIDER WHOM YOU WILL RE-ELECT.

Has anyone else had a similar experience, and what do you plan to do about it? Suggestions are more than welcome!

Originally Posted by travel

SO DO SOMETHING!!!

I, for one, am writing to the Governor and US Senators from Florida to express my support of increased tax credits for individuals who opt for alternative energy sources, such as solar heating, etc. Our current credits in Florida for residential solar incentives (http://www.dep.state.fl.us/energy/energyact/solar.htm) are a disgrace, considering what the government hands out in subsidies to the farm and oil industries.
If anyone else wants to do something about this, I've included the email and mail addresses of these representatives:

Governor Crist:
Office of Governor Charlie Crist
State of Florida
PL-05 The Capitol
Tallahassee, FL 32399-0001
Email: Charlie.Crist@MyFlorida.com <Charlie.Crist@MyFlorida.com>


Senator Martinez: He is a member of the Energy and Natural Resources Committee
Washington:
Senator Mel Martinez
United States Senate
356 Russell Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
Main: (202) 224-3041
Email on web form:
http://martinez.senate.gov/public/in...on.ContactForm

Senator Nelson: Member, Budget and Commerce Committees
Senator Bill Nelson
Washington, D.C.
United States Senate
Email on web form:
http://billnelson.senate.gov/contact/email.cfm
716 Senate Hart Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
Phone: 202-224-5274
Fax: 202-228-2183

Rep. Marco Rubio, Speaker
Florida House of Representatives
402 South Monroe Street
Tallahassee, Florida 32399-1300
(850) 488-1450
Email: marco.rubio@myfloridahouse.gov

Rep. Mayfield, Chair
ENVIRONMENT & NATURAL RESOURCES COUNCIL
Florida House of Representatives
402 South Monroe Street
Tallahassee, Florida 32399-1300
(850) 488-9238

Rep. Kreegel, Chair
Committee on Energy
Florida House of Representatives
402 South Monroe Street
Tallahassee, Florida 32399-1300
(850) 488-9175
Email: paige.kreegel@myfloridahouse.gov

Rep. Williams, Chair
Florida House of Representatives
Committee on Environmental Protection
402 South Monroe Street
Tallahassee, Florida 32399-1300
(850) 488-2047
Email: trudi.williams@myfloridahouse.gov

All it takes is a click on the URL or a phone call - NO EXCUSES!

Because of my concern about energy I did go to Pickens web site and was impressed. You don't need a tall wind mill you can install a small one on your roof that isn't too obtrusive. I saw it on HGTV. Just think it we all did our own solar and wind how much we could cut our carbon footprint.

Travel, thank you for your posting.

30 years ago when the federal government had tax incentives for home owners to make their homes less dependent on fossil fuel we had solar panels put on our roof. They have more than paid for themselves.

It was President Regan who did away with these tax credits.

Where we live in NY neighbors have put in the large solar panel units for electricity and are glad they did so.

We have all this knowledge on how to decrease our carbon foot print, yet the government would rather spend money on exploration of oil instead of assisting home owners with the cost of installation of any solar units.

HB

HB -
You and Sidney are innovators and what is known as "early adapters" in the marketing field. Congratulations to you on being proactive in dealing with your energy use.
I am disappointed that so few TOTVers have commented on the fact that most of the elected representatives discussed didn't even acknowledge the correspondence.
Unfortunately, this is why so little is accomplished in our legislature - so few citizens take the time to write, call, email...or maybe even care.
I hope I am wrong, and that the next generation demands more.

The responses on this post are so typical of the divisions perpetuated by partisans in this country. Because "golfpro" wants to be let alone to live his life as he chooses, he must be Republican like George Bush. Nevermind that George Bush lives in a home that is totally independent and uses, wind power, solar power, reuses waste water and does all the things necessary to "save the planet for the children". While Al Gore who runs around telling everyone else how to live, has a house that uses as much electric in a month as 2000 more modest homes use in a year.
Those of you who want to drive a Prius, please do so. If you want to save money and use solar power or wind power or whatever in your homes, thank god that you live in a country that allows you to make these choices. Don't pretend, however, you are doing this for any one but yourselves.
Taxes and tax money were supposed to be used to fund the necessary functions of government, not support a lifestyle we choose to enjoy. Oh that we could get back to the foundations of our constitution.
We used to come to consensus by the use of persuasion and reasoned debate. Trying to cast guilt and name calling have replaced this. A sorry spectacle.

georgea,

We drive a Prius and do everything that we can not only to save money but to preserve the earth for our children.

If we had the disposable income to do all the things we would like to do to save our planet we would.

We have no need to pretend why we are doing the above, we are honest and open about it. Are you honest and open why you do things?

If for some reason you feel guilty - than I suggest you look into yourself and see what makes you feel that way.

Curious - you state "Taxes and tax money were supposed to be used to fund the necessary functions of government...." Does that include spending billions of dollars overseas that could be used here in our country?

There are millions of people in the United States who go hungry, cold, not enough medications for their illnesses, no access to medical care and the list goes on.

HB

georgea, Oh that we could get back the money spent in Iraq.


HB, hear, hear! :#1: