Chelsea,
That was very well said, and I know it came from your heart. I believe that thoughtful people can disagree, and, clearly you do as well. Thank you for your post.
I also appreciate your sense of humor, I hope you never loose it.

I applaud you, Chelsea, for going Face to Face. That's more than other posters can say here and you should be proud! I'm proud of you and respect you for the honest lady you are. You say it like it is and make no punches...no beating around the bush...no inuendos. You are to be admired.

I wish more of you had met Chelsea "face to face". The woman has a wicked sense of humor. She would also give you the shirt off her back. She has an outrageous wit and is willing to laugh at herself. She is trustworthy,
funny, smart and has a heart of pure gold. You can't tell that on this forum.
You read words..and words can be so brutal and cold. Many of us have said it before..you can't read expressions on the forum. If you could, you would know how she teases and jokes with people. I do guarantee if you needed help, she would be there for you long before McCain, Obama, (or any of the politicians that we so vociferously defend) showed up.
Now..who is the echo? Inquiring minds want to know.

Chels, this quote from Lewis Mumford; "A certain amount of opposition is a great help to a man. Kites rise against, not with the wind", feels apropos right now. You and I were definitely on opposite sides of the fence for this election and I too felt the frustration when we verbally sparred. Your man won, mine did not. Even though we do not know each other well, I did not feel personally attacked by you and for that I admire you. You were relentlessy adamant in your convictions but often no less so than many others whom felt they had the only correct facts and message. (Perhaps myself included.) This is probably a good time for everyone to pull out the full length mirror and take a good look.

And BTW, Chels, I still think the wrong man won but I'm hoping for the best.
Good luck to you and God bless our wonderful nation.

Bucco, I think you truly love politics. Much more than I do. Yes, I do, at times, give "cutesy" remarks. I don't know how something like "This ship has sailed." is such a problem, but if my remarks offended you, I wholeheartedly apologize. You are a much more serious debater then I am.
__________________________________________________ _______

Thanks for responding directly and I will do the same !!!!

My problem is that you NEVER EVER dicuss issues...you simply make an off the cuff, cutsey and frankly at times insulting remark about the poster you dont agree with.

"this ship has sailed" in the middle of a discussion about an issue where NOBODY had said anything out of order except to exchange views on a particular issue was not necessary and simply a smart crack. It said nothing to the issue and was aimed SIMPLY because the issue being discussed was one that President Elect Obama happens to support.

You have made comments about me personaly when responding and if you even touched a bit on the issue being discused instead of simply dismissing with a smart inane insult it would not be so bad, but if you have nothing to say on the issue and are just angry because you happen to like a party of a candidate who has a stance on the issue, then I strongly suggest you read up on the issue instead of simply insulting the poster and making snide remarks.

As far as serious is concerned...if I wanted to exchange cute snide insults I would find another thread. I come here to learn what is going on and to exchange ideas with people which is what I thought was the reason for this particular area. If I wanted something else like cute, then maybe I would come to the others where you post those things.

I hope that makes sense to you and all the crew !!! If I, or anyone came into some of the other threads that you folks post in and actually ignored the ISSUE and simply made snide remarks I am sure you would not like it.

I am speaking for me, and only me,and the post applies to all of those who follow around and find that this thread is insulting when in fact ONLY you and a couple others make it that way.....discuss the issue not the poster !

I missed the particularily ugly thread. Deleted? Chels, your open face to face reply lets me get the drift of what was said.

Good response, Chels. I give you a lot of credit and respect for facing the heat head on. In your passion for politics and talents with a catchy phrase, some took your comments more personally than you may have intended. I probably winced once or twice myself.... but, wholeheartedly support your right to express yourself.

Others have similar strong feelings about issues and disagreements create animosity. The competitive nature of our society...us vs them, win vs lose, in your face, etc makes it much more difficult to have rational, reasonable discussions.

The political forum got very heated and posts along the way became personal or were intrepreted to be personal attacks even when they weren't. The Admins' reminder to be civil and not to attack other members should have been a fresh starting point for new discussions.

The election is over but discussion of issues goes on. I would hope that discussion of our public figures doesn't degrade any further than what one would hear on O'Reilly, Leno, or Jon Stewart. Public figures are fair game...TOTV members are not.

Bucco, I was on the same side of the fence as you for this election but didn't realize you were the moderator of all matter posted. I feel intimidated and bullied by you and I'm on YOUR side. I have valid political basis for my decisions and have done the research but the rhetoric and tone here has ruined my taste for the political forum. BTW, "that ship has sailed" does convey a message and does leave room for discussion from you. I don't know Chels personally and we've sparred over the election but I'm probably considered part of her gang. Those are your opinions and you are entitled to them just as Chels is entitled hers. Look in the mirror, we are all so human!

Hey Bucco, Sarah was cute!!! Why can't all of us girls be cute, also?

UH OH


I'm asking for trouble now!!!

Chels and others-

You have a large close circle of friends on TOTV. I think if any of your circle ever really knew me, including you-you would like me. I never had anybody not like me before...that's why I cried so much. I had never gone through anything like this before. And by the way, I am still in touch with the strangers you and certain others attacked thinking it was me.

Well in the world I live in, my friends are always nice to everybody.
I know there are many nice people on TOTV that are like that and there are more super nice people in the Villages that would never be nasty. Also, know I want no trouble with anybody. I am very blessed with many real friends.

I wish you and your friends only the best. I think it is a new day on TOTV and I think it is for the better. I am sending you ALL loving and postive thoughts. THE END!

Peace.
Best Mom
Yes I took a long nap....

I guess our forum has turned into a chat room.

Originally Posted by Peachie

Bucco, I was on the same side of the fence as you for this election but didn't realize you were the moderator of all matter posted. I feel intimidated and bullied by you and I'm on YOUR side. I have valid political basis for my decisions and have done the research but the rhetoric and tone here has ruined my taste for the political forum. BTW, "that ship has sailed" does convey a message and does leave room for discussion from you. I don't know Chels personally and we've sparred over the election but I'm probably considered part of her gang. Those are your opinions and you are entitled to them just as Chels is entitled hers. Look in the mirror, we are all so human!

NOBODY EVER SAID that anyone is not entitled to their opinion. HOWEVER personal remarks, IN MY OPINION...not trying to tell anyone else...BUT IN MY OPINION do not belong. If you folks feel that you can slam posters INSTEAD of discussing issues,that is fine with me.

I learn from folks who post on here and when I read a post, I mostly end up investigating what was said to broaden my knowledge.

Obviously there are more who think that the personal, cute remarks without discussing the issue is the way to go, thus I bow to you and will try to just sort through it all and read what I want.

I DID NOT begin this thread....I DID NOT instigate the discussion on one single poster......I did however try to confront it head on....for that I am truely sorry. This is not a new issue on here, as most of you know. It was addressed and the majority seem to feel it is fine...I accept that and all the little digs that come with it !

I can only imagine the reaction if I came on one of the many threads on here and offered nothing about the subject matter, but simply made digs at the posters with whom I disagree !!!!

You remark about me being the moderator is accepted...not sure I understand it.....as I said, I did NOT START this discussion and offered my opinion only.

When I was taught as a child NEVER to discuss religion or politics outside of your home and family I wondered why.

Originally Posted by chelsea24

Maybe I can put this particularly ugly thread to rest as Fumar, SteveZ and Bucco are talking about me.
....
SteveZ, I also think you truly love politics. We have never been on the same page, but I thought that was alright in this country. I thought that's what this country was all about. The freedom to exchange ideas, the freedom to comment. It might not be in the style you'd comment, but it's still my right.
......

Chels,

There was never a question about "freedom to..." In that same "freedom...." is also the freedom to inform when remarks get too insulting and too demeaning. That has occurred several times with as much civility as possible, but just seems to be written off as "it's just my style, tough it out..." So be it, then.

Originally Posted by villages07

Good response, Chels. I give you a lot of credit and respect for facing the heat head on.
I would hope that discussion of our public figures doesn't degrade any further than what one would hear on O'Reilly, Leno, or Jon Stewart. Public figures are fair game...TOTV members are not.

As always, Seven is the voice of reason. I have enjoyed all past political posts; and yes, at times there were some low blows thrown. By both sides. Now that the election is over, I hope political discussions continue. I learn a lot from the informed posters and I think we can all ignore any superficialities and enjoy the wisdom.

And I hope we remember Seven's wise words: Public figures are fair game, TOTV members are not.