The current thread, "The Democrat (liberal) has a problem" initiated by Cashman, is the best recent example of what is wrong with the TOTV political forum. It is a another collection of very extreme, vast generalizations which don't deserve careful refutation, but do serve one important negative purpose. They encourage a small group of conservatives to again engage in personal attacks on anyone who does not share their exact beliefs. "Twisted", "crazy", suffering from "mental disorder", "from another planet", "nuts", "opposed to everything this country stands for" are some of the words this group uses to describe other people. I could wait a little longer for the other like minded folks, (bkcunningham excepted), to weigh in on Cashman's comments, but I'll respond now and hope for the best.

This attack response to "liberals" on TOTV is so commonplace that it is almost completely accepted. The Talk Hosts made the political thread 'by membership only' because of the nasty personal attacks - not monopolized by conservatives I might add. And of course, all of this is ok because we live where our freedom of speech is cherished.

Freedom of speech does not make this right. Name calling and personal attacks have always been the favorite tactic of fascists, intimidating some and wearing others down. Those who remain are attacked more directly and viciously. It's not about who or what is right, but who hollers, schemes and demands who gets the prize; power. At present, conservatives are not in power, so some will resort to anything which will restore their representatives to power. It isn't about the facts, or what might be beneficial now or in the future. Stimulus programs, functioning auto companies, health care reform, consumer credit reform, Supreme Court nominees, the DISCLOSE Act, banking and finance regulations, a 20 billion dollar insurance policy from BP - EVERYTHING is simply declared wrong, wrong, wrong!

What is right is in between the extremes, and often not fully known even with the best available intelligence. Refraining from total obstructionism and all-out attacks on others makes it possible to find better answers through pooled ideas and resources. Just a little example - what could we have done with the money and staff resources devoted to trying to stop all of the above listed things!

TV is a most amazing place. A treasure trove of minds with time to reflect and the experience to make sense of what is happening, and maybe even help build a better future. We should be well past advocating total extremism and there should be no need for name-calling, and personal attacks.

My first reaction was not to respond to your condescending diatribe.

But what the heck, us fascists like a good rant with our cognac and cigar before we retire to our chambers.

Please expand on Mr.Cashman's post and tell us knuckle-dragging, hairy- backed goons, precisely what liberals find offensive?

Do you seriously want the USA to veer towards a socialist government that has been a failure every time it was in existence?

Please tell us what you want and how we will get there. Do you really think that central government control will create jobs and make the USA great again? Do you think that the destruction of the private sector will make us prosperous?

Instead of name calling and throwing out insults, please tell us what will put the millions of people back to work.
At the rate that were going into debt, the total collapse of our country could be on the table.

Is that what the left really wants? I think it does.

Originally Posted by ijusluvit

The current thread, "The Democrat (liberal) has a problem" initiated by Cashman, is the best recent example of what is wrong with the TOTV political forum. It is a another collection of very extreme, vast generalizations which don't deserve careful refutation, but do serve one important negative purpose. They encourage a small group of conservatives to again engage in personal attacks on anyone who does not share their exact beliefs. "Twisted", "crazy", suffering from "mental disorder", "from another planet", "nuts", "opposed to everything this country stands for" are some of the words this group uses to describe other people. I could wait a little longer for the other like minded folks, (bkcunningham excepted), to weigh in on Cashman's comments, but I'll respond now and hope for the best.

This attack response to "liberals" on TOTV is so commonplace that it is almost completely accepted. The Talk Hosts made the political thread 'by membership only' because of the nasty personal attacks - not monopolized by conservatives I might add. And of course, all of this is ok because we live where our freedom of speech is cherished.

Freedom of speech does not make this right. Name calling and personal attacks have always been the favorite tactic of fascists, intimidating some and wearing others down. Those who remain are attacked more directly and viciously. It's not about who or what is right, but who hollers, schemes and demands who gets the prize; power. At present, conservatives are not in power, so some will resort to anything which will restore their representatives to power. It isn't about the facts, or what might be beneficial now or in the future. Stimulus programs, functioning auto companies, health care reform, consumer credit reform, Supreme Court nominees, the DISCLOSE Act, banking and finance regulations, a 20 billion dollar insurance policy from BP - EVERYTHING is simply declared wrong, wrong, wrong!

What is right is in between the extremes, and often not fully known even with the best available intelligence. Refraining from total obstructionism and all-out attacks on others makes it possible to find better answers through pooled ideas and resources. Just a little example - what could we have done with the money and staff resources devoted to trying to stop all of the above listed things!

TV is a most amazing place. A treasure trove of minds with time to reflect and the experience to make sense of what is happening, and maybe even help build a better future. We should be well past advocating total extremism and there should be no need for name-calling, and personal attacks.

This is a joke right? You gotta be kidding.... Did you forget already what liberals said and did to Sarah Palin?

First of all is the fact that you don't know what the word FASCIST mean. When you throw a word around you should have at least a basic understanding of the English Language.

FASCISM is the placing of the government over the individual in an autocratic setting.

This is sounding more like the current regime you like to defend. Obama and his people and you who want to crush opposition are the fascists; by definition.


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

JimJoe, I ws thinking the same thing, as I read the post, not to mention Bush, also.

Originally Posted by ijusluvit

The current thread, "The Democrat (liberal) has a problem" initiated by Cashman, is the best recent example of what is wrong with the TOTV political forum. It is a another collection of very extreme, vast generalizations which don't deserve careful refutation, but do serve one important negative purpose. They encourage a small group of conservatives to again engage in personal attacks on anyone who does not share their exact beliefs. "Twisted", "crazy", suffering from "mental disorder", "from another planet", "nuts", "opposed to everything this country stands for" are some of the words this group uses to describe other people. I could wait a little longer for the other like minded folks, (bkcunningham excepted), to weigh in on Cashman's comments, but I'll respond now and hope for the best.

This attack response to "liberals" on TOTV is so commonplace that it is almost completely accepted. The Talk Hosts made the political thread 'by membership only' because of the nasty personal attacks - not monopolized by conservatives I might add. And of course, all of this is ok because we live where our freedom of speech is cherished.

Freedom of speech does not make this right. Name calling and personal attacks have always been the favorite tactic of fascists, intimidating some and wearing others down. Those who remain are attacked more directly and viciously. It's not about who or what is right, but who hollers, schemes and demands who gets the prize; power. At present, conservatives are not in power, so some will resort to anything which will restore their representatives to power. It isn't about the facts, or what might be beneficial now or in the future. Stimulus programs, functioning auto companies, health care reform, consumer credit reform, Supreme Court nominees, the DISCLOSE Act, banking and finance regulations, a 20 billion dollar insurance policy from BP - EVERYTHING is simply declared wrong, wrong, wrong!

What is right is in between the extremes, and often not fully known even with the best available intelligence. Refraining from total obstructionism and all-out attacks on others makes it possible to find better answers through pooled ideas and resources. Just a little example - what could we have done with the money and staff resources devoted to trying to stop all of the above listed things!

TV is a most amazing place. A treasure trove of minds with time to reflect and the experience to make sense of what is happening, and maybe even help build a better future. We should be well past advocating total extremism and there should be no need for name-calling, and personal attacks.

ijusluvit, since you are subscribed to the political forum, you know as well as I, the name calling and mudslinging goes both ways. I have tried countless times, and I must say I have been sucessful on a few attempts with cologal and a very few other more liberal leaning thinkers to have an intelligent conversation.

But with that said, my problem isn't so much just the concept behind the programs you listed: Stimulus programs, functioning auto companies, health care reform, consumer credit reform, Supreme Court nominees, the DISCLOSE Act, banking and finance regulations, a 20 billion dollar insurance policy from BP - my problem, very basically, is handing over that much power to the federal government. Our country wasn't setup this way.

It just seems when I try to question any of these programs, laws or issues on the grounds of individual and states freedoms and/or liberties, I get no response or called names.

Originally Posted by ijusluvit

The current thread, "The Democrat (liberal) has a problem" initiated by Cashman, is the best recent example of what is wrong with the TOTV political forum. It is a another collection of very extreme, vast generalizations which don't deserve careful refutation, but do serve one important negative purpose. They encourage a small group of conservatives to again engage in personal attacks on anyone who does not share their exact beliefs. "Twisted", "crazy", suffering from "mental disorder", "from another planet", "nuts", "opposed to everything this country stands for" are some of the words this group uses to describe other people. I could wait a little longer for the other like minded folks, (bkcunningham excepted), to weigh in on Cashman's comments, but I'll respond now and hope for the best.

This attack response to "liberals" on TOTV is so commonplace that it is almost completely accepted. The Talk Hosts made the political thread 'by membership only' because of the nasty personal attacks - not monopolized by conservatives I might add. And of course, all of this is ok because we live where our freedom of speech is cherished.

Freedom of speech does not make this right. Name calling and personal attacks have always been the favorite tactic of fascists, intimidating some and wearing others down. Those who remain are attacked more directly and viciously. It's not about who or what is right, but who hollers, schemes and demands who gets the prize; power. At present, conservatives are not in power, so some will resort to anything which will restore their representatives to power. It isn't about the facts, or what might be beneficial now or in the future. Stimulus programs, functioning auto companies, health care reform, consumer credit reform, Supreme Court nominees, the DISCLOSE Act, banking and finance regulations, a 20 billion dollar insurance policy from BP - EVERYTHING is simply declared wrong, wrong, wrong!

What is right is in between the extremes, and often not fully known even with the best available intelligence. Refraining from total obstructionism and all-out attacks on others makes it possible to find better answers through pooled ideas and resources. Just a little example - what could we have done with the money and staff resources devoted to trying to stop all of the above listed things!

TV is a most amazing place. A treasure trove of minds with time to reflect and the experience to make sense of what is happening, and maybe even help build a better future. We should be well past advocating total extremism and there should be no need for name-calling, and personal attacks.

I see you wrote this late last night. Do me a favor and instead of attacking me while you accuse me of being an attacker read my post and your post over again this morning. Maybe you will then consider discussing the issues I raised.

Originally Posted by ijusluvit

The current thread, "The Democrat (liberal) has a problem" initiated by Cashman, is the best recent example of what is wrong with the TOTV political forum. It is a another collection of very extreme, vast generalizations which don't deserve careful refutation, but do serve one important negative purpose. They encourage a small group of conservatives to again engage in personal attacks on anyone who does not share their exact beliefs. "Twisted", "crazy", suffering from "mental disorder", "from another planet", "nuts", "opposed to everything this country stands for" are some of the words this group uses to describe other people. I could wait a little longer for the other like minded folks, (bkcunningham excepted), to weigh in on Cashman's comments, but I'll respond now and hope for the best.

This attack response to "liberals" on TOTV is so commonplace that it is almost completely accepted. The Talk Hosts made the political thread 'by membership only' because of the nasty personal attacks - not monopolized by conservatives I might add. And of course, all of this is ok because we live where our freedom of speech is cherished.

Freedom of speech does not make this right. Name calling and personal attacks have always been the favorite tactic of fascists, intimidating some and wearing others down. Those who remain are attacked more directly and viciously. It's not about who or what is right, but who hollers, schemes and demands who gets the prize; power. At present, conservatives are not in power, so some will resort to anything which will restore their representatives to power. It isn't about the facts, or what might be beneficial now or in the future. Stimulus programs, functioning auto companies, health care reform, consumer credit reform, Supreme Court nominees, the DISCLOSE Act, banking and finance regulations, a 20 billion dollar insurance policy from BP - EVERYTHING is simply declared wrong, wrong, wrong!

What is right is in between the extremes, and often not fully known even with the best available intelligence. Refraining from total obstructionism and all-out attacks on others makes it possible to find better answers through pooled ideas and resources. Just a little example - what could we have done with the money and staff resources devoted to trying to stop all of the above listed things!

TV is a most amazing place. A treasure trove of minds with time to reflect and the experience to make sense of what is happening, and maybe even help build a better future. We should be well past advocating total extremism and there should be no need for name-calling, and personal attacks.

I just thought of something. By attacking me you put me in the category of Sarah Palin. She raised issues. The Liberals could not refute the issues so they attacked her personally.

I raised specific issues. You lied and said they were generalizations and then you attacked me personally.

Why do Liberals attack messengers and not messages?

Think about that ijusluvit.

Originally Posted by bkcunningham1

ijusluvit, since you are subscribed to the political forum, you know as well as I, the name calling and mudslinging goes both ways. I have tried countless times, and I must say I have been sucessful on a few attempts with cologal and a very few other more liberal leaning thinkers to have an intelligent conversation.

But with that said, my problem isn't so much just the concept behind the programs you listed: Stimulus programs, functioning auto companies, health care reform, consumer credit reform, Supreme Court nominees, the DISCLOSE Act, banking and finance regulations, a 20 billion dollar insurance policy from BP - my problem, very basically, is handing over that much power to the federal government. Our country wasn't setup this way.

It just seems when I try to question any of these programs, laws or issues on the grounds of individual and states freedoms and/or liberties, I get no response or called names.

I clearly stated that the personal attacks were not the monopoly of TOTV conservatives, but that conservatives more frequently engage in it at present because they are frustrated by, and so vehemently disagree with the current administration. As I have done repeatedly in the past, I again advocated an end to this unproductive behavior.
I also stay in this forum to try to participate in intelligent discussion, so I'll go right to what you describe as your problem "handing over that much power to the federal government." That's really at the core of disagreement between conservatives and liberals, so lets talk about it. In the short term, a mere 18 months, the current administration and Congress has taken a number of steps, none of which is appears to be unconstitutional. If any of those actions are unconstitutional they will be addressed in the future by the courts according to our pretty good formula for the separation and balance of powers. If any of those actions proves so unpopular with the electorate, they will be repealed in the future. IMHO I do not believe that any of the recent laws passed or actions taken will be overturned in the future.
More importantly, I suggest that Thomas Jefferson and others who first expressed fears about a powerful central government, would support a revised, more centrist view if they were with us today. Jefferson would get physically ill to see the power of banks, huge corporations, unions, Wall Street, and especially the lobbyists. He would rail against their oppression of the common man. However, I believe he would support social security and the new health care reform because of the benefits provided for the average citizen. He would have supported financial regulations from the Sherman Anti-Trust Act to the current efforts to regulate consumer credit and financial institutions. I'm not sure how much he would support the effort to check terrorism in Afghanistan, but he would not have expected the Virginla Militia to respond to the 9/11 attack. Our world is different than Jefferson's and I think he would admit that a functional, effective federal government would be necessary to keep the enormous influence of money and power in check, as well as to protect us from dangers far more imminent than he could imagine in his day.
So, I'm not attacking you or your position on the power of the federal government. I'm just suggesting that now, more than at any other time in our history, with the world so small and change so rapid, we must be equipped to act as one nation. In a general way, I see the steps taken by the current administration and Congress as a reasonable and potentially correct response to the problems we faced in 2008. Everyone is concerned about the financial cost of these steps. There are strong indicators that they will ultimately work and only speculation that they will "destroy this nation". I prefer seeing some positive turn around to the prospect of where we would be today with 'more of the same'. We will see.

Everything passed by this corrupt regime and incompetent Congress will be repealed and Jefferson will stop turning in his grave.

I agree with Pats2010 that Jefferson and all of the founding fathers are spinning in their graves! They designed the constitution to have only those powers delegated to it by the states IN ORDER TO KEEP CONTROL AWAY from a central government. They were the Gates, Buffetts and Gores of their day - there was NO WAY they wanted govt interference in their affairs! The war they fought was AGAINST TAXATION - they were NOT seeking to collect taxes and turn them over to a govt that would REDISTRIBUTE. They fully intended to KEEP the money they made!

In your treatise you state, "He would rail against their oppression of the common man" in reference to Jefferson. I cannot imagine how you could presuppose to know his intent [unless you can channel his spirit for such insight], and would venture just the opposite...Jefferson was one of the oppressors...he, too was a slave owner. The only entity that is doing its best to oppress me and to take my hard earned money and lifestyle so some slug can live a better life is this administration!

I overcame coming from the wrong side of the tracks to rise with a college degree and a career that led to management positions - no one redistributed a thing to me - when my parents needed a helping hand the govt looked at their tax return and told them they made too much and turned down their request for assistance! I had to work for every step I took and every dollar I made and saved. I weaved and bobbed around every obstacle put in front of me, including those placed there by every administration since the 60s; and I am trying to do the same with this administration. The only difference now is that this administration refuses to listen to my voice and the cries of the multitudes who do not want to go where we are being shoved.

I am happy for you that you are not one of the oppressed.

Get Rid of Incumbent Politicians

Can we just agree that ijusluvit does not know the meaning of the word "Fascist"? In fact, his posts in this thread and what he is supporting, namely the government taking over for our own good, is indeed Fascism and hence ijusluvit is a hypocrite.

Originally Posted by RichieLion

Can we just agree that ijusluvit does not know the meaning of the word "Fascist"? In fact, his posts in this thread and what he is supporting, namely the government taking over for our own good, is indeed Fascism and hence ijusluvit is a hypocrite.

At last, someone said it!!!!

Thank you Richie

Originally Posted by JimJoe

This is a joke right? You gotta be kidding.... Did you forget already what liberals said and did to Sarah Palin?

Honey, we didn't have to do too much to that trailer trash trainwreck of a woman. Who the hell can't remember what magazine she reads? Was Redbook or Ladies Home Journal too difficult too remember? Don't tell me Katie Couric surprised her with that trick question.

Couldn't have darling Bristol kept her knees together during the campaign? She's not engaged any more because Levi got some other "nice girl" knocked up.

Oh, "Miss, I can see Russia from my house, Sarah"... isn't saying, "Drill, baby, Drill" these days... she's really busy tap-dancing around that one and denying she ever said it. Like every other stupid thing that ever came out of that woman's mouth.

The Liberal Democrats couldn't have made up the crap she did to herself about the $150k of clothes and the stuff with the house built with city money and just the general daily garbage that comes out of her mouth. She went to 7 different colleges. What does that mean? It means when things go too hot, she left for another school, duh. For god's sake, if she couldn't hack it as governor and QUIT, why would anyone for her again????

Originally Posted by JimJoe

This is a joke right? You gotta be kidding.... Did you forget already what liberals said and did to Sarah Palin?

Honey, we didn't have to do too much to that trailer trash trainwreck of a woman. Who the hell can't remember what magazine she reads? Was Redbook or Ladies Home Journal too difficult to remember? Don't tell me Katie Couric surprised her with that trick question.

Couldn't have darling Bristol kept her knees together during the campaign? She's not engaged any more because Levi got some other "nice girl" knocked up.

Oh, "Miss, I can see Russia from my house, Sarah"... isn't saying, "Drill, baby, Drill" these days... she's really busy tap-dancing around that one and denying she ever said it. Like every other stupid thing that ever came out of that woman's mouth.

The Liberal Democrats couldn't have made up the crap she did to herself about the $150k of clothes and the stuff with the house built with city money, and just the general daily garbage that comes out of her mouth. She went to 7 different colleges. What does that mean? It means when things go too hot, she left for another school, duh. For god's sake, if she couldn't hack it as governor and QUIT, why would anyone for her again????

Sarah Palin is a Republican one-liner.