I am seeing it but not able to comprehend President Obama and how apparently shallow he is.....

1. During the campaign he promsied that NO new law would be signed by him until the american people could review it on the WH web page and comment. The first bill he signed was the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay act. It WAS posted on the website for us all to see...TWO HOURS AFTER IT WAS SIGNED. This is an interesting story by itself this case.

2. He signed an order the first day in office on lobbyists in his administration. He may have signed more waivers than folks who work in his administration. It only applies WHEN he wants it to it appears.

3. The bevy of folks in his administration that cannot do their taxes correctly...that is a nice way of saying, they skipped a few things just keeps growing. All "innocent errors" we are told.

4. Now, we get this "stimulus bill" and I remind you of all the statements he made about how pork will NOT be part of this bill and on a few occasions he even mentioned all bills, but none the less this is LOADED to the gills with pork and more being loaded on. Meanwhile it is says that tomorrow he will announce that he will, the President of the United States, limit the pay of those corporations geting any money. While we can all agree that folks take advantage, to have the government stipulate that is historic.

Oh, meanwhile,it is being reported that the administration has asked the Joint Chiefs of staff to cut the Pentagon budget by 55 billion in fiscal 2010 while considering this stupendous amount of money.

I am at a loss as to what is happening in such a short time.

Perhaps it is me looking for every thing but everything I have listed above is true and verifiable. Everytime I say..give him a chance....BANG....we get hit in the face again. I can only hope that he is serious about compromise and wanting to do that with this stimulus bill in the senate because we are facing a total disaster.

This thing has to be RIGHT....we cant do this again (I dont think we should do it now). I hope that I am so wrong but I am so scared right now. This is being done so fast and furious with folks in congress just adding on and saying "we won". This is so much worse, or at least appears to be, than I ever ever imagined !!!

Change my friend. America voted for it and now we're getting it. You ain't seen nothing yet.

Bucco, you didn't expect this? If not, I presume that you didn't vote for him.

Yoda

" I simply cannot believe it..... "
"I am seeing it but not able to comprehend President Obama and how apparently shallow he is..... "

C'mon Bucco, don't feign surprise now. You knew all along how shallow Mr. Obama was, how in so many ways he was no more than an empty suit. I'm sure if I searched the archives, I could find several example of you warning us of just this. Like so many of us following the election, you hoped (and prayed, if you do that kind of stuff) that you'd underestimated him and that he could and would live up to the hopes of so many of the Obamakins. Well, so far, not so good. I'd love to look at the long run and assure you that he would live up to his promises down the road and would become a strong leader of all the people, but so far there haven't been all that many indications that he will. It's still so very, very early that we can only hope.

But please, no more faux surprises at his failings. They look to be many and it'll get real old real quick.

"buying American" in his rebuild America plan as soon as a foreign country yells foul.

So far his fast start, like the Democratic Congress of two years ago, has been pretty bumpy. He did sign to close Gitmo...mark your calender...it is supposed to be done in one year. I am opposed to it, but just watch where it is in one year.

Politician first, so don't really expect him to deliver much of what was promised. Second, POTUS on the job training will continue to trip him up.

I continue to retain the hope, that after he learns what he can and cannot do and say as POTUS, he will eventually deliver......something.

BTK

Originally Posted by Muncle

" I simply cannot believe it..... "
"I am seeing it but not able to comprehend President Obama and how apparently shallow he is..... "

C'mon Bucco, don't feign surprise now. You knew all along how shallow Mr. Obama was, how in so many ways he was no more than an empty suit. I'm sure if I searched the archives, I could find several example of you warning us of just this. Like so many of us following the election, you hoped (and prayed, if you do that kind of stuff) that you'd underestimated him and that he could and would live up to the hopes of so many of the Obamakins. Well, so far, not so good. I'd love to look at the long run and assure you that he would live up to his promises down the road and would become a strong leader of all the people, but so far there haven't been all that many indications that he will. It's still so very, very early that we can only hope.

But please, no more faux surprises at his failings. They look to be many and it'll get real old real quick.

Honestly not feigning at all. I am not a good wordsmith as some on here and sometimes do not express myself correctly.

I have always fully expected this kind of action and much much worse from this administration, but I thought it would be slow and incidious. This is open and "in your face" kind of stuff.

I just really hope he wakes up before we sell this country out with this bailout mess. When you look at where these folks want the money to go it just simply boggles your mind.....so much in there but I have difficulty getting past the money for ACORN and tax credits for folks who dont pay taxes as just two examples.

Originally Posted by Bucco

Honestly not feigning at all. I am not a good wordsmith as some on here and sometimes do not express myself correctly.

I have always fully expected this kind of action and much much worse from this administration, but I thought it would be slow and incidious. This is open and "in your face" kind of stuff.

I just really hope he wakes up before we sell this country out with this bailout mess. When you look at where these folks want the money to go it just simply boggles your mind.....so much in there but I have difficulty getting past the money for ACORN and tax credits for folks who dont pay taxes as just two examples.

So far the "change" has been the difference in the campaign promises and the actual operation of the administration.

There was such a touting of how open and "consensus building" this administration would be. Well, it hasn't started out that way, as all of the "we'll use the web to get American public consensus" is apparently now a very selective policy. We won't bloat bills with pork has already bit the dust. Now "buy American" is heading to the septic tank.

Two of the Cabinet Secretary appointments had tax "mistakes" bigger than most Americans make for entire incomes, and another doesn't believe to be subject to tax laws. The3 Attorney General - who is supposed to be the top lw enforcement officer for the nation - comes from the law firm representing several Gitmo detainees, and these are ongoing cases.

Yes, it's only been a couple of weeks...and already he's blown more campaign promises than any president in my memory - Democrat or Republican.

When does the good "change" start happening?

"The3 Attorney General - who is supposed to be the top lw enforcement officer for the nation - comes from the law firm representing several Gitmo detainees, and these are ongoing cases."


Holder's law firm has over 600 attorneys. In addition, many of the Gitmo defendants are represented by US military officers who have called the proceeding a sham. You can do the research, but I bet the US military currently represents, and has represented, more Gitmo detainees than Holders law firm. So I guess the Pentagon, and officers such as Lt Cmdr Kuebler, must also be of questionable character?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/19/us/19gitmo.html

Originally Posted by bimmertl

"The3 Attorney General - who is supposed to be the top lw enforcement officer for the nation - comes from the law firm representing several Gitmo detainees, and these are ongoing cases."


Holder's law firm has over 600 attorneys. In addition, many of the Gitmo defendants are represented by US military officers who have called the proceeding a sham. You can do the research, but I bet the US military currently represents, and has represented, more Gitmo detainees than Holders law firm. So I guess the Pentagon, and officers such as Lt Cmdr Kuebler, must also be of questionable character?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/19/us/19gitmo.html

While all should have their own opinion, in the interest of accuracy, allow me to point out that your 8 MONTH OLD article may or may not be accurate, HOWEVER, the fact the Mr Holder defended the FALN terrorists pardoned by President Clinton and his defense of Marc Rich's pardon AND the fact that the firm of which he is a senior partner does in fact represent 17 folks interred at GTMO (17 or about 9% of the total population that President Obama considers dangerious) are also pertinent.

I would consider those facts to be of interest !!!

Now, that may be ok with you...and with many others. It does bother me a bit !!!!

Originally Posted by bimmertl

"The3 Attorney General - who is supposed to be the top lw enforcement officer for the nation - comes from the law firm representing several Gitmo detainees, and these are ongoing cases."


Holder's law firm has over 600 attorneys. In addition, many of the Gitmo defendants are represented by US military officers who have called the proceeding a sham. You can do the research, but I bet the US military currently represents, and has represented, more Gitmo detainees than Holders law firm. So I guess the Pentagon, and officers such as Lt Cmdr Kuebler, must also be of questionable character?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/19/us/19gitmo.html

It's a matter of ethics, not of "questionable character".

If an attorney is a member of a firm which has represented Client X, the attorney must be able to show that s/he has been 100% isolated from any contact with the case file, preparation, discussion, strategy, etc. before the attorney can represent the opposing party against Client X, and that still is often insufficient. All of that is to protect Client X's right to counsel and confidentiality. Also, Client X must agree to waiver the attorney's subsequent representation in the matter.

For a member of the DC Bar, the DC Bar's Rules of Professional Conduct apply (http://www.dcbar.org/for_lawyers/eth...ules/index.cfm), and Rules 1.6 through 1.11 get into the attorney-client relationship.

I find it curious how AG Holder is going to ethically represent the US' interests regarding Gitmo detainees when his firm (of which he was a senior partner) represented Gitmo detainees. Any AG-level decision cannot help but be questionably tainted against one of the parties.

Steve

Since Gitmo's inception, the US military has been representing the interests of the United States regarding the Gitmo detainees, by serving as prosecutors, and judges, while members of the same US military have been representing the interests of the Gitmo detainees as defense attorneys. Do you find that curious?

And Bucco, once again you have created "Bucco facts". The FALN prisoners had their sentences commuted after serving about 20 years in prison. They weren't "pardoned" as stated as a "fact" by you.

Also, weren't you always on your high horse assailing those who used to deservedly "Bush bash" and resort to name calling. I guess calling Obama shallow isn't name calling, if done by you.

Here's one for the road, in the words of Republican Senator Chuck Hagel, "the Bush administration is one of the most arrogant incompetent administrations I have ever seen or read about". Obama has a long way to go to top that crowd.

Originally Posted by bimmertl

Steve

Since Gitmo's inception, the US military has been representing the interests of the United States regarding the Gitmo detainees, by serving as prosecutors, and judges, while members of the same US military have been representing the interests of the Gitmo detainees as defense attorneys. Do you find that curious?

And Bucco, once again you have created "Bucco facts". The FALN prisoners had their sentences commuted after serving about 20 years in prison. They weren't "pardoned" as stated as a "fact" by you.

Also, weren't you always on your high horse assailing those who used to deservedly "Bush bash" and resort to name calling. I guess calling Obama shallow isn't name calling, if done by you.

Here's one for the road, in the words of Republican Senator Chuck Hagel, "the Bush administration is one of the most arrogant incompetent administrations I have ever seen or read about". Obama has a long way to go to top that crowd.

As far as military attorneys representing Gitmo detainees, the use of military attorneys in a "public defender" role in courts-martial and tribunals is routine. Military attorneys are subject to the ethics rules of their state bar, Code of Conduct, and the Uniform Code of Military Justice - and restrictions on post-agency representation affect them as well. Again, it's a matter of professional ethics, and it was under the ehtics rules of the Arkansas Bar which resulted in the disbarment of William Jefferson Clinton.

As far as Pres. Obama having "a long way to go to top that crowd," with three senior appointee applicants being tax scofflaws, reversal of campaign promise of "website bill review before signature" and campaign promise of going "pork-less" for the good of the American taxpayer - and all that after only three weeks in office - he's sprinting toward a new record!

I hope Pres. Obama does reverse his trend of "there's pre-inauguration promises and there's post-inauguration action, and any similarity between the two is coincidental." Unfortunately, elections do not come with warranties.

Originally Posted by bimmertl

Steve

Since Gitmo's inception, the US military has been representing the interests of the United States regarding the Gitmo detainees, by serving as prosecutors, and judges, while members of the same US military have been representing the interests of the Gitmo detainees as defense attorneys. Do you find that curious?

And Bucco, once again you have created "Bucco facts". The FALN prisoners had their sentences commuted after serving about 20 years in prison. They weren't "pardoned" as stated as a "fact" by you.

Also, weren't you always on your high horse assailing those who used to deservedly "Bush bash" and resort to name calling. I guess calling Obama shallow isn't name calling, if done by you.

Here's one for the road, in the words of Republican Senator Chuck Hagel, "the Bush administration is one of the most arrogant incompetent administrations I have ever seen or read about". Obama has a long way to go to top that crowd.

1. The FALN prisoners were commuted by President Clinton and many in the Justice Department were dead set against it. Mr. Holder held the liine and pushed hard for their commutation and defended it in the justice department. I apologize profusely for using the word pardon but would ask what the misuse of that word did to alter the point being made.

2. Well, if using the term shallow is calling names, I plead guilty although what I said was "apparently" shallow !! I suppose I could have used the terms used on this board by those who were touting him during the campaign but during the primary called him an "empty suit", but I stand by my comment of APPARENTLY SHALLOW......based on what I have seen thus far that would be my opinion. When I am ready to call him shallow, albeit when all the facts are in, you will be the first to know.

3. I agree to some point with Hagel on the Bush administration for sure and have said so on here many times. Your apparent hate for Bush is distorting your need to look at facts. He said he would allow the american citizens to review all bills before signing. HE DID NOT DO THAT. He said there would be a new line on lobbyist in WASH, except in his administration where he is signing waivers thus HE DID NOT DO IT.

I recall during the Ashcroft nomination process a few years ago where the stunned and flabbergasted politicians went after him with all weapons. Why....well, basically because he was too right and too religious. I do recall however that he paid his taxes. Thus having top people not paying taxes and while President Obama surely did say he "screwed up", less than 24 hours before that he was touting his nominee and he knew the tax situation then.
THIS KIND OF ACTION is not CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN.

4, He made a big deal out of no pork in the stimulus bill. We will see how that goes.

Listen, you can love President Obama and worship at his feet. That makes you as bad as those who worshiped at President Bush's feet. If you want folks to simply say he is correct in everything simply because he is a great speaker, please dont count me in on that.

He gives a great, scripted, rehearsed speech. But off the cuff, as he now has to do quite often, he is no better than average.
He like most average humans has to think, says ah once in a while.

Prepared speeches are easy to do good at. Just like the television media....they are good readers....

I await the actions not the words....politicians obviously get elected based on words. Unfortunately that seems good enough for the mass constituency.

BTK