Talk of The Villages Florida
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-   The Villages, Florida, Political talk (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-political-talk-88/)
-   -   Individual mandate upheld (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-political-talk-88/individual-mandate-upheld-55748/)

Guest 06-28-2012 02:19 PM
I think the pool will stay the same or get more expensive. My understanding is that Obamacare is going to provide subsidies through taxpayer funding for people whom can't afford the premiums for the pool.

Why would it get better and cheaper and the coverage get better? What do you see happening that I don't?

Guest 06-28-2012 02:22 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513295)
Reference please for "the largest tax increase in the history of the world" I have not read the law, perhaps you can tell me what the "tax" penalty is for someone who does not obtain health insurance, how many Americans are projected to be paying that tax, and how that increase government revenue stacks up against such things as the increase in SocSec taxes signed by Reagan. A good place to start might be to look at the experience in Massachusetts where Romneycare has been in effect several years with it's identical individual mandate backed by a tax penalty for failure to comply. How is that working out for the citizens and taxpayers of Massachusetts? I am not arguing whether or not Romneycare has saved money, just interested in resolving the tax increase potential of the ACA.
All the costs of this, the biggest spending bill in history, are now validated as taxes the by the Supreme Court.

It's self explanatory.

Guest 06-28-2012 02:22 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513318)
I think the pool will stay the same or get more expensive. My understanding is that Obamacare is going to provide subsidies through taxpayer funding for people whom can't afford the premiums for the pool.

Why would it get better and cheaper and the coverage get better? What do you see happening that I don't?
I'm not schooled on it. Just looking for what people see or may actually know. Insight I guess is what I'm looking for. Thanks for yours.

Guest 06-28-2012 02:52 PM
BHO said no one making less than $250K/yr would have taxes increased. Now that lie is blown. He said you can keep your Dr. that lie is blown.

Companies will drop medical coverage as the "tax" is cheaper. Employees have to find some bargain basement insurance that their current Dr. probably won't accept, if he has not retired. Look what happened with Medicare D, companies dropped their retirees prescription coverage.

Medicare wiped out retirees employer provided health insurance.

All this is is a way to make people more dependendent on the Government.

Sell your health insurance stock!

Guest 06-28-2012 02:57 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513316)
What will be offered in 2014, janmcn? Will it be cheaper and better? I don't see how that would be possible.
That would be an excellent question for your congressman, and, as luck would have it, he or she will be on another week's recess all next week so you should be able he reach him/her in their home district with no problem.

Guest 06-28-2012 03:05 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513318)
I think the pool will stay the same or get more expensive. My understanding is that Obamacare is going to provide subsidies through taxpayer funding for people whom can't afford the premiums for the pool.

Why would it get better and cheaper and the coverage get better? What do you see happening that I don't?
From FORBES....

"Health premiums will go up. Fans of the law say it will cut costs, but by extending government-subsidized health coverage to millions of new customers it is far more likely healthcare costs will increase and that will be passed through to consumers."

Supreme Court Upholds Obamacare: What It Means, What Happens Next - Forbes

And keep in mind that this bill, at least to all I can read, despite the Presidents promise...DOES NOTHING to address costs in anyway at all.

Guest 06-28-2012 03:06 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkcunningham1
What will be offered in 2014, janmcn? Will it be cheaper and better? I don't see how that would be possible.

Why not? What do you see happening?
Name one thing that government has taken over and is cheaper and better?????

Guest 06-28-2012 04:10 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513343)
BHO said no one making less than $250K/yr would have taxes increased. Now that lie is blown. He said you can keep your Dr. that lie is blown.

Companies will drop medical coverage as the "tax" is cheaper. Employees have to find some bargain basement insurance that their current Dr. probably won't accept, if he has not retired. Look what happened with Medicare D, companies dropped their retirees prescription coverage.

Medicare wiped out retirees employer provided health insurance.

All this is is a way to make people more dependendent on the Government.

Sell your health insurance stock!
What is your source? You seem to be convinced. Help me understand. Coach me to success please.

Guest 06-28-2012 04:21 PM
When Mitt Romney promises to repeal The Affordable Care Act, that will cause 30 million people to lose health care plus the other 20 million he promises to cut from Medicaid. If just half of those people vote against him, there's no way he can win the election this November.

Romney has never said how he will pay for his five trillion dollar tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires.

Guest 06-28-2012 04:24 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513380)
When Mitt Romney promises to repeal The Affordable Care Act, that will cause 30 million people to lose health care plus the other 20 million he promises to cut from Medicaid. If just half of those people vote against him, there's no way he can win the election this November.

Romney has never said how he will pay for his five trillion dollar tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires.
How will he repeal anything? He won't have that power.

Guest 06-28-2012 04:30 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513382)
How will he repeal anything? He won't have that power.
I heard on TV today that, because it is a taxing issue, it can be repealed with just 51 votes, and republicans are hoping to have that many after the election. They also said something about he could just cut off the funding for the law.

Guest 06-28-2012 04:33 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513384)
I heard on TV today that, because it is a taxing issue, it can be repealed with just 51 votes, and republicans are hoping to have that many after the election. They also said something about he could just cut off the funding for the law.
He can't do it day one like he says. Cutting off funding is not repealing.

Guest 06-28-2012 04:43 PM
Just found this on twitter which invalidates my previous post.


4 Reasons Why Republicans Won't Be Able To Repeal Obamacare | ThinkProgress

Guest 06-28-2012 04:45 PM
Supreme Court Upholds President Obama's Health Care Reform | The White House

Here is the official word from the Admin.

This came in an email from The White House, that's their story.

Guest 06-28-2012 04:56 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513395)
Supreme Court Upholds President Obama's Health Care Reform | The White House

Here is the official word from the Admin.

This came in an email from The White House, that's their story.
Not mentioned in that email...

"The high court’s ruling leaves in place 21 tax increases in the health-care law costing more than $675 billion over the next 10 years, according to the House Ways and Means Committee. Of those, 12 tax hikes would affect families earning less than $250,000 per year, the panel said, including a “Cadillac tax” on high-cost insurance plans, a tax on insurance providers, and an excise tax on medical device manufacturers."

Republicans: Ruling focuses election on Obama's health care tax - Washington Times

I am still reading on this issue, but as much as I really like some of this stuff, we cannot afford this mumble jumble. Lots of work to do dealing FINALLY WITH HEALTH CARE COSTS !!!

Guest 06-28-2012 05:05 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513400)
Not mentioned in that email...

"The high court’s ruling leaves in place 21 tax increases in the health-care law costing more than $675 billion over the next 10 years, according to the House Ways and Means Committee. Of those, 12 tax hikes would affect families earning less than $250,000 per year, the panel said, including a “Cadillac tax” on high-cost insurance plans, a tax on insurance providers, and an excise tax on medical device manufacturers."

Republicans: Ruling focuses election on Obama's health care tax - Washington Times

I am still reading on this issue, but as much as I really like some of this stuff, we cannot afford this mumble jumble. Lots of work to do dealing FINALLY WITH HEALTH CARE COSTS !!!
The health insurance that House and Senate folks get is not Cadillac insurance I presume. Their insurance is less than the average workingman? Right?

Guest 06-28-2012 05:22 PM
It is DISGUSTING that EVERY act that is passed or proposed or ruled on by the SCOTUS, is simply used as fodder to beat the other side over the head and rattle sabres. Never any concern over what is really in the public interest. What has happened to statemanship. These politicians are disgusting and the public in general has followed their lead.

Guest 06-28-2012 05:23 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513405)
The health insurance that House and Senate folks get is not Cadillac insurance I presume. Their insurance is less than the average workingman? Right?
Nope, they are insured under one of the plans in the Federal Employees Health Benefits. Good healthcare that is available to all Federal employees and retirees. It is not free like a lot of companies give but is still a good deal.

I would think the state (oops, commonwealth) would offer good health insurance to their employees and retirees. Not so?

Guest 06-28-2012 05:40 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513417)
Nope, they are insured under one of the plans in the Federal Employees Health Benefits. Good healthcare that is available to all Federal employees and retirees. It is not free like a lot of companies give but is still a good deal.

I would think the state (oops, commonwealth) would offer good health insurance to their employees and retirees. Not so?
Very bad after you go. Terrible rates then. Decent while working.

Guest 06-28-2012 05:45 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513415)
It is DISGUSTING that EVERY act that is passed or proposed or ruled on by the SCOTUS, is simply used as fodder to beat the other side over the head and rattle sabres. Never any concern over what is really in the public interest. What has happened to statemanship. These politicians are disgusting and the public in general has followed their lead.
Mitch McConnell is a piece of work. Why he just doesn't wear his white hood on the Senate floor is beyond me. His war on the POTUS has put usually "thinking" folks on the road to stalemate and destruction of this Great Nation.

Guest 06-28-2012 06:42 PM
one thing "violators" of the new insurance law can count on and that is if they do not get insurance and they get a note from the IRS that they are being fined/taxed just throw it away....it won't be enforced just like so many other laws violated and not enforced. Gotta be careful to not tax a future vote ya know.

btk

PS the above assumes the law survives until 2014.

Guest 06-28-2012 07:24 PM
Mitt Romney is vowing to repeal and replace The Affordable Care Act on day one of his presidency. That means he has four months until election day to come up with the replacement. Considering that he would want to run on that replacement, shouldn't he be announcing what his plan is soon?

It took President Obama and congress 18 months to pass the ACA. It'll be interesting to see what Romney comes up with in the next few days.

Guest 06-28-2012 08:01 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513415)
It is DISGUSTING that EVERY act that is passed or proposed or ruled on by the SCOTUS, is simply used as fodder to beat the other side over the head and rattle sabres. Never any concern over what is really in the public interest. What has happened to statemanship. These politicians are disgusting and the public in general has followed their lead.
Let me, for me I am speaking, I am NOT politicizing this at all. I actually like some things in it as I said, but paying for it, from what I read and it little tentacles that get into so much of our life worries me. While some on here and around are "spiking the ball" I urge them to take a few minutes and really think about this thing. HEALTH CARE costs which we were told was the impetus for the bill WILL GO UP as I understand !

If it is the law, fine...but lets be up front exactly what we are doing.

Guest 06-28-2012 08:04 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513415)
It is DISGUSTING that EVERY act that is passed or proposed or ruled on by the SCOTUS, is simply used as fodder to beat the other side over the head and rattle sabres. Never any concern over what is really in the public interest. What has happened to statemanship. These politicians are disgusting and the public in general has followed their lead.
Statesmanship will be shown by opposing this unlawful and unconstitutional decision.

Guest 06-28-2012 08:06 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513425)
Mitch McConnell is a piece of work. Why he just doesn't wear his white hood on the Senate floor is beyond me. His war on the POTUS has put usually "thinking" folks on the road to stalemate and destruction of this Great Nation.
Not a classy statement Posh. McConnell has a right to his positions and views without being unjustly called a racist because of them. Not cool.

Guest 06-28-2012 08:07 PM
where are the republican alternatives? or are they for no changes? Fine repeal it then what? It's easy to criticize much harder to create. And finally McConnell is really a jerk. Even repubs should be ashamed of his spineless attitudes.

Guest 06-28-2012 08:08 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513516)
Statesmanship will be shown by opposing this unlawful and unconstitutional decision.
RichieLion - The Supreme Court decided the Affordable Care Act IS both lawful and constitutional - and the deciding vote was Chief Justice Roberts who was appointed by Junior Bush - and was introduced to the public by Bush as a strict constructionist.

Guest 06-28-2012 08:10 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513512)
Let me, for me I am speaking, I am NOT politicizing this at all. I actually like some things in it as I said, but paying for it, from what I read and it little tentacles that get into so much of our life worries me. While some on here and around are "spiking the ball" I urge them to take a few minutes and really think about this thing. HEALTH CARE costs which we were told was the impetus for the bill WILL GO UP as I understand !

If it is the law, fine...but lets be up front exactly what we are doing.
As I stated before, Bucco, if it survives to go into effect fully in 2014, it will most likely be amended and changed many times until most of the unintended consequences have been removed. It is not likely to remain intact for long. At the present time, I like most Americans, have little idea of how it will impact my life, or the lives of others over the long term. It was a mess in its construction for sure, but there are parts of it that were long overdue. As with most things, time will tell. A lot of people are for or against it because their party is for or against it.

Guest 06-28-2012 08:12 PM
This spells the end of employer provided healthcare. The fines for not providing insurance are a lot lower than insurance coverage for each employee, and that was done by design.

Employers will drop coverage, pay the fine, and employees will have to go to a government facility for coverage. This is the way it could all play out. The government directing you health care, just as everyone said.

There's no limit with this decision as to what the government can mandate and call it a "tax". The Supreme Court has decided that the government can indeed institute any tax for any reason and for any amount.

This is not going to sit well with anyone, even all you yahoos celebrating what you do not understand.

Guest 06-28-2012 08:13 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513516)
Statesmanship will be shown by opposing this unlawful and unconstitutional decision.
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513523)
RichieLion - The Supreme Court decided the Affordable Care Act IS both lawful and constitutional - and the deciding vote was Chief Justice Roberts who was appointed by Junior Bush - and was introduced to the public by Bush as a strict constructionist.
Buggy, you are clearly correct.

Guest 06-28-2012 08:13 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513523)
RichieLion - The Supreme Court decided the Affordable Care Act IS both lawful and constitutional - and the deciding vote was Chief Justice Roberts who was appointed by Junior Bush - and was introduced to the public by Bush as a strict constructionist.
Ha ha, very funny. It's still bad law. Justice Roberts in a stupid decision said that the government has the right to do this. He didn't say it was good policy. That's not his purview.

Guest 06-28-2012 08:16 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513526)
This spells the end of employer provided healthcare. The fines for not providing insurance are a lot lower than insurance coverage for each employee, and that was done by design.

Employers will drop coverage, pay the fine, and employees will have to go to a government facility for coverage. This is the way it could all play out. The government directing you health care, just as everyone said.

There's no limit with this decision as to what the government can mandate and call it a "tax". The Supreme Court has decided that the government can indeed institute any tax for any reason and for any amount.

This is not going to sit well with anyone, even all you yahoos celebrating what you do not understand.
And of course YOU clearly understand it. You lost any credibility on this issue with your "illegal and unconstitutional" statement.

Guest 06-28-2012 08:18 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513445)
one thing "violators" of the new insurance law can count on and that is if they do not get insurance and they get a note from the IRS that they are being fined/taxed just throw it away....it won't be enforced just like so many other laws violated and not enforced. Gotta be careful to not tax a future vote ya know.

btk

PS the above assumes the law survives until 2014.
Maybe this morning's sociologist commentator is right saying the unintended result of the decision will be to strengthen extreme radical and militia groups.

The solution above is to willfully flaunt the law. Just what we need. Read my suggestion to DDoug - Really unhappy? Ready to break the law?
Seek asylum in Somalia.

Guest 06-28-2012 08:23 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513529)
Ha ha, very funny. It's still bad law. Justice Roberts in a stupid decision said that the government has the right to do this. He didn't say it was good policy. That's not his purview.
Bad law? Stupid decision? Those are open to interpretation, you said unlawful and unconstitutional, meaning you beleive yourself to be a more credible authority than Justice Roberts. It IS law and the Supreme Court declared it IS constitutional.

Guest 06-28-2012 08:26 PM
"This is not going to sit well with anyone, even all you yahoos celebrating what you do not understand."

I kind of prefer GMAIL to YAHOO.

Glad that you understand everything that is unconstitutional and unlawful about the Affordable Care Act. I know you could have been a great lawyer and judge - but ...

The checks and balances are what is great about this country. Even though you do not like a decision, respect the checks and balances of the 3 branches of government. Sure beats the heck out of Somalia, doesn't it? Maybe DDoug will send us a postcard from there when he seeks asylum.

Guest 06-28-2012 08:41 PM
Do You Or Don't You?
 
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513275)
That's why libs are such fools. I don't care who appointed him or what party he belongs to.

It was a bad decision.

Unlike Obama worshipers I don't blindly defend anything and everything just because they sit on my side of the isle.

Politicians are rats. All of them.
Don't hold back, DK. But do you accept the decision of the Supreme Court as the law of the land? Or not?

Oh, I guess I don't care much whether you do or don't accept it--it IS the law of the land. And as far as where people sit, typically the Republicans on on the right side of the aisle, and the Democrats on the left. I can't figure out who might join you on your side of the isle.

Guest 06-28-2012 08:43 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513529)
Ha ha, very funny. It's still bad law. Justice Roberts in a stupid decision said that the government has the right to do this. He didn't say it was good policy. That's not his purview.
Yeah, you are so ticked off about the decision, then Buggy reminds you about who appointed Roberts. Easy to see why you have completely lost sight of the facts.
It's not bad law, nor a stupid decision. It is an obvious interpretation of the Constitution and recognition of hundreds of established precedents. Sure, arguing the matter's constitutionality in the light of the commerce clause is not crystal clear, but as a function of Congress' power to tax it's a slam dunk. That's right - hundreds of precedents. Insulate your home; get a tax credit. Pay tuition to improve job skills: get a tax credit. Mortgage a house; get a tax credit.
Got it yet?

Guest 06-28-2012 08:49 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513545)
Don't hold back, DK. But do you accept the decision of the Supreme Court as the law of the land? Or not?

Oh, I guess I don't care much whether you do or don't accept it--it IS the law of the land. And as far as where people sit, typically the Republicans on on the right side of the aisle, and the Democrats on the left. I can't figure out who might join you on your side of the isle.
would that be the Isle of Wight? ( bidip, bidip, that's all folks!)

Guest 06-28-2012 08:56 PM
Not Good For The Rep
 
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513529)
Ha ha, very funny. It's still bad law. Justice Roberts in a stupid decision said that the government has the right to do this. He didn't say it was good policy. That's not his purview.
You never cease to amaze, Richie. Oh, we all know that anyone that doesn't agree with your point-of-view is dumb, lazy or crooked. But for you to assert that the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court made "bad law" based on a "stupid decision"--Richie, that doesn't do your reputation as a Constitutional scholar any good at all.

I know we'll never get the opportunity, but I'd pay good money to hear you debate Justice Roberts on the constitutionality of his decision.

Guest 06-28-2012 09:03 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513343)
BHO said no one making less than $250K/yr would have taxes increased. Now that lie is blown. He said you can keep your Dr. that lie is blown.

Companies will drop medical coverage as the "tax" is cheaper. Employees have to find some bargain basement insurance that their current Dr. probably won't accept, if he has not retired. Look what happened with Medicare D, companies dropped their retirees prescription coverage.

Medicare wiped out retirees employer provided health insurance.

All this is is a way to make people more dependendent on the Government.

Sell your health insurance stock!
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 513377)
What is your source? You seem to be convinced. Help me understand. Coach me to success please.
posh08 - i am a source! in january i lose my retiree state health benefits and am required to go on medicare by the state if i wish to retain medical insurance AND i must pay the entire premium for medicare a and b. i can continue to pay a premium to the state in order to keep that as supplemental medicare coverage. i also lose my retiree state health prescription plan and am forced onto the medicare program offered by the state health insurer for prescription coverage and i must pay that premium.

are you convinced yet? i know what bavarian is posting about - i am about to live it! hope my explanation aids your understanding.


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