Re: Information About John McCain
 

Forgot to add............Muncle take over please.... ;) ;)

Re: Information About John McCain
 

Lil Dancer...

Thanks for the info.* Sounds like McCain is more worth voting for than I originally thought.

Assuming your sources are correct, I assume you posted these items to be negative toward McCain.* If so, does this mean...

1.* You are against people having enough moral courage to change their mind if they are initially wrong?

2.* You are against strong national defense?

3.* You are against using the tools we need to create a semblance of an even playing field when dealing with our enemies?

4.* You are in favor of killing innocent human life? Key word "innocent".* That sounds fairly wicked.* The right to choose to kill is next to Godliness in your mind, I suppose?* Don't women already have the right to choose to become pregnant or not in this country, unlike the religio-social codes of Islamic nations?

The rest I'm not familiar with, but on the surface...

5. Not familiar with that bill.* But I am very aware that socialist, invasive legislation is often couched in very motherhood and apple pie-sounding titles.

6.* Sounds like an Al Gore - Mr. Global Warming - carbon credits scenario.

7.* Do you prefer the dangerous Chamberlinian appeasment and placating promised by Obama to the experienced desiciveness of McCain?* Silly question.* Of course you do.

8.* Are you suggesting Obama has no paid lobbiests on his staff?* Really?

9.* I believe events have a purpose and to ignore the possibility is blind.* Only atheists, "symbolic" church goers and other irreligious folk would have a problem with this.

10.* National priorites have to take precedence, and during the last session, when Obama voted 67% for environmental issues, there were other competing national interests that deserved greater attention:* Energy independence which is often stunted by additional environmental measures; internationally competitive economy which is often stunted by additional environmental measures.* A high score on environmentalism doesn't deserve to be THE national priority at the moment.

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No Chuck, you done good, as we used to say in the English Dept. I'm trying to stay out of the sniping as much as possible, except for the occasional sarcastic aside that I just can't resist. Those are all too frequent anyway.

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No tag teams...you are all quite capable of stating your own opinions!!!
And Muncle I am proud of you! You are being nicer...
I think you are a McCain person, :-* :-*

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I'm glad you found this information helpful in determining your voting choice. The point of this post was not to bash a particular cnadidate, but to provide truthful info regarding a candidate, information which many people may not have been aware of. In the past, a number of posts have been put up (on Obama for example) which are not even close to the truth, for example calling him a Muslim. That has been de-bunked by a variety of sources. I just hate to see anyone make up their minds on a candidate based on something other than real verifiable facts, not just emotional rhetoric.

Since you were so curious about my politica views, for the record I am more liberal than many of you, and am in favor of a woman's right to choose; I do favor Civil rights laws; I do believe in global warming, and its consequences; I am in favor of going to war only if it is justifiable for our country's security (Iraq did not meet this critera); I am not a member of the religious right....We all will vote based on our values and how we perceive the candidates align with those values. But let's vote on the truth, as far as we can determine it, not a bunch of slander and lies.

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There is no doubt that Republicans and Democrats can find all sorts of stuff about each candidate, and present the stuff is a "glass half-empty" or "glass half-full" manner. That seems to be the nature of things - find what you like about "my party's" candidate and tout it, and find what hate about "their party's" candidate and tout it.

Perhaps, if the two candidates are indeed going to be Sen.s Obama and McCain, they will be better than all of us, by debating Lincoln-Douglas style on the issues so that their positions are clear. Imagine what a change that would be - gentlemen acting like gentlemen - with no slander, name-calling, back-biting innuendos, and having to answer each other - face to face - to get clarity of position.

I hope they go through with it!

Personally, I haven't found the "perfect" candidate position-wise yet, no more than have I found the "perfect" party. To me, many of each party's platform planks are warped and filled with knotholes.

Just for the fun of it, I decided to rate myself on this "10" scale:

1. Am glad for another holiday, especially in winter. For it!
2. Hawks are great - they fly high and peaceful most of the time, and only come at you talon-first when hungry or you've attacked them. I like them around me.
3. When it's our troops' lives at stake versus gentility to a harm-giver - gentility takes second seat. See nothing essentially wrong with it as circumstances must be considered.
4. Democrats say its okay to kill an unborn child, but not a convicted killer - Republicans believe the opposite. To me BOTH parties are hypocritical.
5. Writing legislation and giving it a title which makes someone a bum if s/he didn't buy it is a rotten practice. It doesn't matter if the bill is the "Childrens Health" Act, the "Dream" Act, or the "Patriot" Act. The praising or condemning of any bill requires that the ENTIRE bill is read and its effects quantified - that's the only way to make an intelligent (versus ignorant) opinion of the contents and the subsequent actions of those who vote pro or con. Since I haven't read the "Childrens Health" Act and done any quantification - no opinion!
6. I haven't seen a candidate in my lifetime who wasn't a multi-millionaire. Maybe how they got that way has something to do with their opinion about personal finance. Not an issue.
7. Most of the Republican senators have never commanded anything, much less a military force. I know a lot of folks who were/are hotheads, but were/are great commanders of troops. I prefer a Commander-in-Chief who knows what being a "Commander" entails.
8. Would love for someone to define "lobbyist" in this context. That could describe darned near every person within the DC Beltway who is not a government employee! Not a problem!
9. A person's religious convictions - and their advisors - is a matter of personal choice. Don't see this being an issue regarding either Sen. McCain or Sen. Obama.
10. See #5 above - same holds true for "conservation" legislation.

So, if I were a candidate, I would have some folk going "yippee" on some of the issues, and "hang him high" on others. Sorta like what's going on now with both of the Senators leading their parties at this time.....

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There are many shades of grey between being religion X and not being or disavowing religion X.* I agree Mr. Obama does not declare himself a Muslim and is not a registered practicing Muslim (if Muslims indeed register :dontknow:).* However, I have no doubt that he is sympathetic to that religion and has many close friends and relatives who are practicing Muslims.* Not that he is required to, but I think it is true that he never disavowed that religion.* Yes, he claims to have NEVER been a Muslim.* But the facts debunk that as well.*

Debunking that he is not now a Muslim compared to never having been or not presently having warm hearted sympathies and/or latent allegience are two very different things.

Religious sympathies are very important (to me) if one is sympathetic to the world religion which accounts for 99% of terrorist acts in the world, where 5% of the 1 billion claimed adherants (that would be about 50,000,000) have "radical" jihadist tendencies, beliefs and practice, and the other 95% are really "unknown" quantities becasue of the Islamic teaching of Taqiyya (تقيّة) the mostly Shi'a principle that one is allowed to hide one's true beliefs in certain circumstances.

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I'm closer to you on this topic than I care to publicly admit.* While I think we should have done what we did in Iraq at the beginning (get Saddam out - get the real or suspected WMD out), we should have claimed victory when the "Mission Accomplished" sign went up and gotten out 2 years ago and used our resources to seal our borders, bolster homeland security, and become more energy independent.*

I have this gnawing feeling that once we gain a semblance of "democracy" in Iraq, or in any other Islamic country, after our military influence recedes they will practice "democracy" all right - one time - to vote themselves a wahabbiesque http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabi* government similar to Iran's "Republic":

"The form of government of Iran is that of an Islamic Republic, endorsed by the people of* Iran on the basis of their longstanding belief in the sovereignty of truth and Qur'anic* justice, in the referendum of Farwardin 9 and 10 in the year 1358 of the solar Islamic* calendar, corresponding to Jamadi al-'Awwal 1 and 2 in the year 1399 of the lunar Islamic calendar (March 29 and 30, 1979], through the affirmative vote of a majority of 98.2% of eligible voters, held after the victorious Islamic Revolution led by the eminent marji'* al-taqlid, Ayatullah al-Uzma Imam Khumayni."* http://www.iranonline.com/iran/iran-...n-1.html*

"Qur'anic justice" is nothing that 99% of the men, women, or children in this nation would want to endure...especially women. Although I wouldn't be surprised if liberal feminists started wearing burka's as a fashion statement.* It is confusing to me why liberal women in this nation, or any proponent of women's rights, would defend the Islamic faith and practice in favor of intolerant and repressive Islamic teaching that brings women's rights back into the stone age.

I couldn't agree more that there is no perfect candidate.* There are things about each candidate that are good and not good for this nation.* We have to prioritize which ones and go with the qualities that screw us up the least.* I would love to combine the charisma, "hope" and elocution of Obama with the experience, wisdom, courage and patriotism of McCain as to style.* As to policy substance, that would take a book.

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This is a video Muncle and Mucci made last night between beers, dedicated to all the wonderful demicrats out thar...* we beg ya...* get 'er done...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Mc3GQmGGms

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1rnfl GF, that is sooooo funny! Ain't it the truth! Great post. :bigthumbsup:

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Actually, after reading this list I feel better about voting for Sen. McCain. I never thought I would say it but, thanks MoveOn.com!

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Navy pilot John Sidney McCain III should have never been allowed to graduate from the U.S. Navy flight school. He was a below average student and a lousy pilot. Had his father and grandfather not been famous four star U.S. Navy admirals, McCain III would have never been allowed in the cockpit of a military aircraft.

His father John S. "Junior" McCain was commander of U.S. forces in Europe later becoming commander of American forces in Vietnam while McCain III was being held prisoner of war. McCain III's grandfather John S. McCain, Sr. commanded naval aviation at the Battle of Okinawa in 1945.

During his relative short stunt on flight status, McCain III lost five U.S. Navy aircraft, four in accidents and one in combat.

Robert Timberg, author of The Nightingale's Song, a book about Annapolis graduates and their tours in Vietnam, wrote that McCain "learned to fly at Pensacola, though his performance was below par, at best good enough to get by. He liked flying, but didn't love it."

McCain III lost jet number one in 1958 when he plunged into Corpus Christi Bay while practicing landings. He was knocked unconscious by the impact coming to as the plane settled to the bottom.

McCain's second crash occurred while he was deployed in the Mediterranean. "Flying too low over the Iberian Peninsula," Timberg wrote, "he took out some power lines [reminiscent of the 1998 incident in which a Marine Corps jet sliced through the cables of a gondola at an Italian ski resort, killing 20] which led to a spate of newspaper stories in which he was predictably identified as the son of an admiral."

McCain's third crash three occurred when he was returning from flying a Navy trainer solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game.

Timberg reported that McCain radioed, "I've got a flameout" and went through standard relight procedures three times before ejecting at one thousand feet. McCain landed on a deserted beach moments before the plane slammed into a clump of trees.

McCain's fourth aircraft loss occurred July 29, 1967, soon after he was assigned to the USS Forrestal as an A-4 Skyhawk pilot. While seated in the cockpit of his aircraft waiting his turn for takeoff, an accidently fired rocket slammed into McCain's plane. He escaped from the burning aircraft, but the explosions that followed killed 134 sailors, destroyed at least 20 aircraft, and threatened to sink the ship.

McCain's fifth loss happened during his 23rd mission over North Vietnam on Oct. 26, 1967, when McCain's A-4 Skyhawk was shot down by a surface-to-air missile. McCain ejected from the plane breaking both arms and a leg in the process and subsequently parachuted into Truc Bach Lake near Hanoi.

After being drug from the lake, a mob gathered around McCain, spit on him, kicked him and stripped him of his clothing. He was bayoneted in his left foot and his shoulder crushed by a rifle butt. He was then transported to the Hoa Lo Prison, also known as the Hanoi Hilton.

After being periodically slapped around for "three or four days" by his captors who wanted military information, McCain called for an officer on his fourth day of captivity. He told the officer, "O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital." -U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John McCain.

"Demands for military information were accompanied by threats to terminate my medical treatment if I [McCain] did not cooperate. Eventually, I gave them my ship's name and squadron number, and confirmed that my target had been the power plant." Page 193-194, Faith of My Fathers by John McCain.

When the communist learned that McCain's father was Admiral John S. McCain, Jr., the soon-to-be commander of all U.S. Forces in the Pacific, he was rushed to Gai Lam military hospital (U.S. government documents), a medical facility normally unavailable for U.S. POWs.

The communist Vietnamese figured, because POW McCain's father was of such high military rank, that he was of royalty or the governing circle. Thereafter the communist bragged that they had captured "the crown prince."

For 23 combat missions (an estimated 20 hours over enemy territory), the U.S. Navy awarded McCain a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars, two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service medals.

"McCain had roughly 20 hours in combat," explains Bill Bell, a veteran of Vietnam and former chief of the U.S. Office for POW/MIA Affairs -- the first official U.S. representative in Vietnam since the 1973 fall of Saigon. "Since McCain got 28 medals," Bell continues, "that equals out to about a medal-and-a-half for each hour he spent in combat. There were infantry guys -- grunts on the ground -- who had more than 7,000 hours in combat and I can tell you that there were times and situations where I'm sure a prison cell would have looked pretty good to them by comparison. The question really is how many guys got that number of medals for not being shot down."

For years, McCain has been an unchecked master at manipulating an overly friendly and biased news media. The former POW turned Congressman, turned U.S. Senator, has managed to gloss over his failures as a pilot and collaborations with the enemy by exaggerating his military service and lying about his feats of heroism.

McCain has sprouted a halo and wings to become America's POW-hero presidential candidate.

Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain

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McCain was taken from the hospital and delivered to Room No. 11 of "The Plantation" into the hands of two other U.S. POWs, Air Force majors George "Bud" Day and Norris Overly. They helped further nurse him along until he was eventually able to walk by himself. --Faith of My Fathers by John McCain. McCain signed a confession and declared himself a "black criminal who performed deeds of an air pirate." This statement and other interviews he gave to the Communist press were used as propaganda to fan the flames of the antiwar movement. McCain has the Silver Star, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars, two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service gongs. On a purely medal count basis, he outweighs Audie Murphy and John Glenn, who both for years repeatedly performed extraordinary deeds on the ground or in the air against an armed enemy. The U.S. Navy says two eyewitnesses are required for any award of heroism. But for the valor awards McCain received, there are no eyewitnesses, less himself and his captors. And they're not talking. McCain refused an early release. An act of valor? Three former POWs stated he was ordered to turn it down by his U.S. POW commander and he "just followed orders." McCain certainly doesn't appear to be a war hero by conventional standards, but rather a tough survivor whose handlers are overplaying the war hero card. None of the awards, less the DFC, were for heroism over the battlefield where he spent no more than 20 hours.
When McCain returned to the United States in 1973 after more than five years as a prisoner of war, he found his wife was a different person. Carol McCain, once a model, had been badly injured in a car wreck in 1969. The accident "left her 4 inches shorter and on crutches, and she gained a good deal of weight." Despite her injures, she had refused to allow her POW husband to be notified about her condition, fearing that such news would not be good for him while he was being held prisoner.

But, just a couple years later, McCain, while pondering a future in politics, met Cindy Hensley, an attractive 25-year-old woman from a very wealthy politically-connected Arizona family. While still married to Carol, McCain began an adulterous relationship with Cindy. He married Cindy in May 1980 -- just a month after dumping his crippled wife and securing a divorce.

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Very interesting Junglejim. Please continue to post. :bigthumbsup:

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In case anyone hasn't figured it out, I'm not a McCain supporter. That being said, what does his being a lousy pilot have to do with his ability to govern? Ditto not having really earned his medals. Many in Vietnam got medals they didn't earn. My ex refused a purple heart he was offered. He walked into a tree branch and cut his eye. Cute scar -- gave him character. And he did have the character to say no to the medal. McCain did suffer more. Even if he was given medical treatment not available to other POWs, he was till a POW. That does deserve some acknowledgement. Okay, he committed adultery. So have many others. It's not my style, but it's also not my business. That's between him, his wife (wives?) and his God.

I do understand JJ's post speaks to his integrity as a young man (which seemed to be lacking a bit) but, from everything I have heard about the man, he does have integrity today -- at least more than most politicians. As I said, I'm not a fan. He still scares me to no end. I won't vote for the man but I think this kind of a post is about as valid as posts calling Obama a Muslim and implying that he will hand this country over to Islamic fanatics.