As one who does not believe that "government" must be mommy and daddy to the general public, but the general public often needs to fix things in spite of the government's "help," I'm curious on the ideas any/all of us have on how to get the economy a point or two higher?

We've all "been around the block" several times, so one would think we'd have some ideas. I'm not really interested in what either campaign has speechwriters working to impress, but would be more in the line of - if I had ten minutes with each candidate, this is what I'd say and have them listen, not the other way around. Maybe they might even listen!

As a start - the domestic auto industry is a big "driver" (pardon the pun) of the economy, especially when you consider all of the subcontractors, vendors, suppliers, etc. involved. If in 2009-2012 when a person purchased a new domestic car (one where at least 80% of the parts were made and all of the final assembly occurred in North America), the purchase price (or any portion of it) of the car would be federal income-tax deductible. If the car was financed, then the payoff of the principal - as it occurred - would be deductible until the final payment. If you sold the car early, or traded it in, there would be a "schedule of deduction" that IRS could provide which would account for the remaining tax deduction.

Such a concept would reduce balance-of-payments, put more Americans back to work (at car makers, suppliers, subcontractors, etc), make American-made products in the American market more competitive, and give folks some more cash. The foreign auto makers would say it was an ad hoc tariff, but so what?

Any other?

Ok this is going to get me called all kinds of names but, I can solve our deficit and SS problems and probably balance the budget, But It would kill the libs.

Here's my thesis, Over 50% of citizens are net tax receivers, they get more than they pay.
If any bill comes up to raise taxes they vote for it because it benefits them and they dont have to pay. A good percentage of them pay no taxes at all.

If we required THE POOR to pay even 5% in taxes two things would happen. 1. we would take in more money to Govt coffers. And 2. the people who paid them would feel better about themselves and maybe more responsible with their vote and more concerned about Govt spending. If people had some SKIN in the game it might change attitudes. Benj

STEVE...great post and great idea !!! This area..the economy...gives me a headache so will learn from you guys as you post ideas.

The one thing that intrigues me is a consumption tax. I think most want it as a REPLACEMENT for the income tax, but I would like to see it as an adjunct to it with much lower taxes on income.

STEVE.....guess to get any participation in a thread discussing real issues, you will need to announce you are pregnant...that seems to get folks attention

I would like to thank you for at least trying to discuss issues !

Benj Great idea, but don't hold your breath. We have to many people who are on the public dole. They will never vote for any politician that advocates them paying taxes.

Steve We need tax reform, but again don't hold your breath. I could go for the Fair tax or the Flat Tax. H & R Block etc. would fight it tooth and nail.

Originally Posted by Bucco

STEVE.....guess to get any participation in a thread discussing real issues, you will need to announce you are pregnant...that seems to get folks attention

I would like to thank you for at least trying to discuss issues !

Hey Guys,

Hold on.

Do you have any idea the number of times I have tried to start a discussion on here of the very real problem of healthcare in America?

I have been sitting here for the past five minutes considering chewing my fingers off rather than letting them type anything political.

Dare to bring up this issue? Be dismissed as promoting socialized medicine.

"No Socialized Medicine!" The battle cry guaranteed to whip up a knee-jerk reacting block vote while offering no solutions. Off the hook. And on to power.

Why can't the think tanks or whoever figure this out? Maybe make it possible for those not covered to BUY into something real. What's wrong with making an early Medicare BUY IN available to early retirees? Jobs would open to younger people. Stress related illnesses just might decrease. Good for the economy all around. Good for small business. Good for big business.

I tend to think beyond what is available to me as an individual. I understand that it is not just about me. Got it or not, we are in this thing together.

I think it was Munc who said on here somewhere the other night something to the effect that every aspect of our lives is affected by politics. True words. Too true words.

Healthcare is going to have to get political direction. That does not mean socialized medicine. That quite simply means figure it out. Throw business, big and small, a lifeline.Throw a lifeline to those who want to retire early but cannot BUY into a decent healthcare plan. Not because they have not saved their money. But because there is no real plan access for so many.

But as long as all those lobbyists are in DC sloppin' the hogs, the average American cannot be heard.

The economics of healthcare -- big, big picture.

And yeah, I know. I hate taxes, too. A lot.

(And I had typed a whole bunch of other stuff here, but I just deleted it. I am absolutely passionate about this topic of affordable healthcare access. Not socialized medicine. But what's the point? I should just hang out in that thread where I talk about my dress.)

Boomer, One Ticked Off Girl

Steve, I've not responded to your initial proposal because I thought it a very ingenious proposal to which I not given any thought at all. I hate to admit it, but I believe I'll have to chew it over in my mind before forming an opinion.

Re Boomer's comments about health care, she is absolutely right that this is a hot button issue and will be for years. What to me is the most frustrating is that there are relatively small portions of the health issue, like medicare buy-in for early retirees or some procedure for individuals paying ungodly rates to join more efficient groups, could be solved, but politics precludes it.

Steve, I do not know how to jump start the economy. If I did, I might still be inside the beltway making mucho money. But I do know that giving everybody a few hundred bucks or sticking successful companies with a modern day sin tax isn't going to make it.

But since I have nothing to offer, I'll add a few quotes on taxes:


Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. -- Frederic Bastiat

The difference between death and taxes is death doesn't get worse every time Congress meets. -- Will Rogers

The taxpayer; that's someone who works for the federal government, but doesn't have to take a civil service examination. -- Ronald Reagan

Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors... and miss. -- Robert A. Heinlein

We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill

A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money. -- G. Gordon Liddy

The point to remember is that what the government gives it must first take away. -- John S. Coleman, address, Detroit Chamber of Commerce, 1956

The only difference between a tax man and a taxidermist is that the taxidermist leaves the skin. -- Mark Twain

It is a good thing that we do not get as much government as we pay for. -- Will Rogers

The share-the-wealth movement appeals most to those with the least to share.

I don't like the income tax. Every time we talk about these taxes we get around to the idea of 'from each according to his capacity and to each according to his needs'. That's socialism. It's written into the Communist Manifesto. Maybe we ought to see that every person who gets a tax return receives a copy of the Communist Manifesto with it so he can see what's happening to him.. -- T. Coleman Andrews, Commissioner of Internal Revenue, May 25, 1956 in U.S. News & World Report

Alexander Hamilton started the U.S. Treasury with nothing -- and that was the closest our country has ever been to being even. -- Will Rogers

To lay with one hand the power of government on the property of the citizen, and with the other to bestow it on favored individuals .... is none the less robbery because it is .... called taxation. -- US Supreme Court in Loan Association v. Topeka (1874)

There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him. -- Robert A. Heinlein

I am proud to be paying taxes in the United States. The only thing is -- I could be just as proud for half of the money. -- Arthur Godfrey

Unquestionably, there is progress. The average American now pays out twice as much in taxes as he formerly got in wages. -- H. L. Mencken

This [preparing my tax return] is too difficult for a mathematician. It takes a philosopher. -- Albert Einstein

Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today. -- Herman Wouk

Congress can raise taxes because it can persuade a sizable fraction of the populace that somebody else will pay. -- Milton Friedman

The avoidance of taxes is the only intellectual pursuit that carries any reward. -- John Maynard Keynes

The income tax has made more liars out of the American people than golf has. -- Will Rogers (1879 - 1935), Illiterate Digest (1924), "Helping the Girls with their Income Taxes"

When there is an income tax, the just man will pay more and the unjust less on the same amount of income. -- Plato, The Republic

People who complain about taxes can be divided into two classes: men and women. -- Unknown

Most [tax revisions] didn't improve the system, they made it more like Washington itself: complicated, unfair, cluttered with gobbledygook and loopholes designed for those with the power and influence to hire high-priced legal and tax advisers. -- Ronald Reagan

Collecting more taxes than is absolutely necessary is legalized robbery. -- Calvin Coolidge

A fine is a tax for doing wrong. A tax is a fine for doing something right. -- Unknown

There is nothing sinister in so arranging one's affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everybody does so, rich and poor; and all do right, for nobody owes any public duty to pay more than the law demands. -- Justice Learned Hand

For an illustration of the difference between proportionate and progressive taxation, we can look to the Bible. There, tithing is explained as the economic basis of our Judaic-Christian religions. The Lord says you shall contribute one-tenth and He says, 'If I prosper you 10 times as much you will give 10 times as much.' That is proportionate -- but look what happens today when you start computing Caesar's share. A man of average income who suddenly prospered ten times as much would find his personal income tax increased 43 times. -- Ronald Reagan

Taxes are not levied for the benefit of the taxed. -- Robert A. Heinlein, The Notebooks of Lazarus Long

It would be a hard government that should tax its people one-tenth part of their income. -- Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac, 1758

You can talk about "social justice" all you want. But what death taxes boil down to is letting politicians take money from widows and orphans to pay for goodies that they will hand out to others, in order to buy votes to get reelected That is not social justice or any other kind of justice. -- Thomas Sowell

The power to tax involves the power to destroy. -- Chief Justice John Marshall, McCulloch v. Maryland, 1819

We don't have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven't taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. -- Ronald Reagan, Address to National Association of Realtors, March 28, 1982

The same prudence which in private life would forbid our paying our own money for unexplained projects, forbids it in the dispensation of the public moneys. -- Thomas Jefferson, 1821

The most laughable White House criticism is that tax cuts are a 'free lunch.' The American people's work created that money. Only in Washington could there be a belief that letting people keep more of what they create is a giveaway. -- Forbes, August 26, 1996

What does 'fair' mean? In the dictionary, it means that everyone has to do about the same. Ten percent of a million dollars is still ten times more than ten percent of a hundred thousand dollars, and twenty times more than ten percent of fifty thousand. But 'fairness' in the tax code has come to mean that we take all the money we can from successful people and dole it back ... and what do we end up with? We end up with a jobs program for bureaucrats, and accountants, and lawyers, and somewhere along the way the taxpaying citizens are just plain forgotten. I'll tell you what I think 'fair' means. I think it means we all bear the same burden in the same proportion. I think it means that the system not only allows, but encourages us to participate in the economy. -- Tom Clancy, Executive Orders, 1996

The principle involved here is time-honored and true: and that is -- it's your money. -- Robert Dole

The purpose of a tax cut is to leave more money where it belongs -- in the hands of the working men and working women who earned it in the first place. -- Robert Dole, Barron's August 12, 1996

Politicians never accuse you of 'greed' for wanting other people's money --- only for wanting to keep your own money. -- Joseph Sobran, (1946- ) American writer and editor. Formerly senior editor at National Review.

If you would not confront your neighbor and demand his money at the point of a gun to solve every new problem that may appear in your life, you should not allow the government to do it for you. -- William E. Simon

I love/hate all those quotes about taxes, Munc. True words. Too true words.

This election is breaking my heart.

Goodnight.

Boomer

Originally Posted by Boomer BeBack

I love/hate all those quotes about taxes, Munc. True words. Too true words.

This election is breaking my heart.

Goodnight.

Boomer

Again I cannot agree more. It is breaking my heart too. When this country is at its bottom, in my recollection, we have people running, none offering, at least to me, the right answers.

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Again I cannot agree more. It is breaking my heart too. When this country is at its bottom, in my recollection, we have people running, none offering, at least to me, the right answers.

I guess I just can't feel down about it all.

I'm living better than my parents and grandparents ever dreamed.
I'm probably going to lilve longer than any of them ever did.
I'm lucky enough to actually afford to retire.
I'm going to live the retiree's dream in TV.
I'm married to an absolutely wonderful person.
The cable TV works most of the time.
The motorcycle runs all of the time.
The dogs are housebroken and always greet me when I come home.
AND
.......(to be filled in later...).....

Life's been good to me so far...

Originally Posted by SteveZ

. . .Life's been good to me so far...

Originally Posted by Boomer BeBack

. . .I tend to think beyond what is available to me as an individual. I understand that it is not just about me. Got it or not, we are in this thing together. . .

What was I thinking? Why did I look? Now look what I have done. I have quoted myself. What is the matter with me? If I cannot have an original thought in the morning, I need to stay out of the kitchen.

Oh, the places I could go with this. The things I could let you know with this.

Yes, my heart is broken. I am a woman scorned. I have questions. I want answers.

But it seems I am irrelevant to what has always been my party.

Why can't I just shut up.

Note to Self:

Dear Self,

Self, make a schedule. Do not look in the mornings, especially. You have stuff that you need to be doing. And you know yourself, Self. You know that you secretly (or not so secretly) love to talk about politics and the economy. But you also know, Self, that there is no point.

Self, do not ever type after midnight. You are just not a stay up late kind of girl.

And, Self, maybe try chewing your fingers right down to bloody stumps before ever letting them type political stuff again.

Your friend,
Self

Hey SteveZ,

I have a history of song lyrics popping into my head. It has been that way all my life. I know. It's weird. I have grown to embrace it though.

And when I saw what you said this morning, "Life's been good to me so far," well, some song lyrics popped right into my head. Sure enough.

And even though we find ourselves here in this forum, I hope you will understand that I am not being mean. I am just being Boomer.

And I think you are a boomer, too.

So boomer to boomer, here's a little serenade. It's the long version backed with The Eagles. Just crank up your speakers. Minus it to the bottom of the screen. And maybe rock a little. It's got a good beat and you can dance to it.

You, Me, and Joe Walsh. . .

"Life's Been Good To Me So Far."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdKY2rDdK2E

Boomer

Originally Posted by Boomer BeBack

You, Me, and Joe Walsh. . .

"Life's Been Good To Me So Far."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdKY2rDdK2E

Boomer

Boomer,

Thanks! It made the day...

Originally Posted by Bucco

...The one thing that intrigues me is a consumption tax. I think most want it as a REPLACEMENT for the income tax, but I would like to see it as an adjunct to it with much lower taxes on income.

Yet, if they added a consumption tax, you think the income tax would go down???

Florida lowered property taxes, but now the local counties are asking for added increases for fire and police protection.

Well, here I am, back in a political thread once again. But I am not going to rant. . . although I cannot comprehend why nobody in power will address the issue of making affordable access to healthcare plans available. Not socialized medicine. But a buy-in for those who need it. And I really do see solving this one as going a long way toward jumpstarting the economy. But I already said all that stuff. Late last night.

I also wrote somewhere in all these many, many, oh so many posts about how I used to holler at Alan Greenspan all the time for giving away money. But Al would not listen to me either. He just kept lowering that rate, only had eyes for the threat of inflation, nobody watching the bad lenders, and now look where we have landed. In that other rant, I wrote about how Greenspan used to party with Ayn Rand. And I said that maybe he should have been partying with Boomer. But, oh well. What do I know? The man is a bloomin' genius. Why would he listen to me?

So anyway, as much as I love to talk about the economy, I probably just need to get over it. But I do so love a good rant from time to time. I especially like them when I have someone to rant along. Especially if they are exactly on my side. My daughter Boomette called me this morning and we did a mother-daughter rant. It was glorious.

But on to a little something else here. . .

Hey SteveZ,

I am happy that you liked that boomer to boomer link I put here this morning. I had forgotten all about that one until you used those words. I have always liked that song. In fact, it's going on my iPod tonight.

And now I just have to link one more.

If we were all truly in the throes of real discussion and getting all these economic issues worked out, I would never play around like this. But as I look around here in this thread, it is looking like not much is going on.

And this link to another song really does apply politically. No matter what I end up doing with my vote, I do know that I want those who want it to stick to the issues, the real issues. But I am too jaded to really expect that to happen.

So with that being said, I guess I can justify linking another Eagles hit in here. This song was one of the very first to take up residence on my precious iPod. I have loved these lyrics since the first time I heard them. And most of them apply all too well to what's going on all around this election. Creating diversion from the real issues.

So, one more time, and then I will stop trying to have a dance in the political forum.

This one says a lot:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKRzoOtilTE

And the beat goes on.

Boomer

Originally Posted by pqrstar

Yet, if they added a consumption tax, you think the income tax would go down???

Florida lowered property taxes, but now the local counties are asking for added increases for fire and police protection.

Sept. AARP Bulletin says Florida voters "will decide in November whether to approve a proposed state constitutional amendment that could have devastating consequences for the state's education, health care, public safety and business sectors.

Amendment 5 which requires 60 percent voter approval for passage, would eliminate nearly $9 billion in state-required property taxes for local school funding in 2010.

To replace the money, opponents say, lawmakers would have to choose among raising state sales taxes, imposing a sales tax on previously untaxed services and slashing billions from health care, human services, criminal justice and school budgets.

AARP and other opponents, including education and business groups say the amendment's negative effects would be so widespread, and its benefits so murky, that voters should reject it.
To learn more visit http://www.aarp.org/fl