Re: Joe Biden???
 

Chels...while I love you and agree with MOST everything you say...I just wanted to make clear that I wasn't even focusing on the unwed part....I had a child "outside" of a marriage...however I was 23, fully educated and employed with insurance....

My biggest issue is the fact that she is 17 years old and still in high school. It makes me think that we will have Gloucester, Mass all over again.....

17 years old! :'( :'( :'(

Re: Joe Biden???
 

No Cassie, you might be focusing on it, but I am. I don't want Sarah Palin anywhere near making laws for MY daughter or anyone else's for that matter.

Re: Joe Biden???
 

I really just don't want every teen girl in America thinking they should go get pregnant so they can married and live happily ever after! Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me....over all we are in agreement.....

Thanks!!!

;)

Re: Joe Biden???
 

I don't "mind" that the girl is pregnant nor that she is planning to get married right after graduation. It is none of my business. At the same time, if this were my daughter, I would be pushing hard for no marriage at this time.

Cassie, I agree that this isn't the best message to give American kids but there's really not much Palin can do about it. Her daughter is pregnant at 17. We have no idea how many battles there were at home before the parents agreed to a wedding. As I said, the best we can do is use things like this to give life lessons to our sons and daughters (or at least discussions).

What does bother me is that Palin thinks that teaching abstinance is the best sex ed for high schoolers. It seems like her daughter proves that doesn't work. Sarah Palin doesn't want "graphic sex education" in the schools. Personally, I don't want my daughter unmarried, pregnant and having a history of STDs. An abstinance curriculum does not give sufficient information IMO.

Re: Joe Biden???
 

Hope the topic cop doesn't scold me....slightly off topic....but....
back in, I think it was about 1989/90 or so, I wrote a letter to Paul Tagliabue, football commissioner. I requested that he take a long hard look at reinstating Dexter Manley again as he had repeated drug charges. I noted that he (Manley), as an outstanding football player, was held in high regard by our very impressionable youth, and as a psychologist, I was seriously concerned by the NFL's decision to allow him to continue playing. I realize that Manley had dealt with many issues of his own (learning disabilities), and that he was an incredibly talented man; however, there was a bigger issue at hand for me. Eventually, he was not reinstated b/c he could not pass the drug tests.

I guess the reason I wrote this was b/c becoming outraged by various issues is directly related to our own experiences in life, or what ever we hold to be near and dear to our hearts IMHO. At the time, I could not understand why other folks were not as passionate about this issue as I was. As I said once before, "thoughtful people(folks who consider issues) can and will disagree."

BTW....I never heard from Mr. Tagliabue.

md blondie

Re: Joe Biden???
 

How this went from Biden to pregnancy....AGAIN..... but any way.
Do any of you even know a parent that has the misfortune to have this happen?
I mean someone you know...not like some think they know Palin.
Are they bad mothers? Bad parents? Bad people?

This whole Palin pregnancy thing is so over blown....so non value adding...and so none of anybody's business.

As the saying goes $_it happens...like all the skeletons in all the closets of so many past AND current politicians who do a heck of a lot worse.
Our permissive society just cannot in good conscience single any one out and tout it as any worse than another...most don't care....obvious by what we tolerate in our elected officials.

The continuing perpetration of an issue like this is mind boggling. :dontknow: :dontknow:

How about a subject of substance for a change instead of continuous tabloid sensationalism?

BTK

Re: Joe Biden???
 

BTK, you obviously are not a woman and perhaps do not have a daughter. It becomes an issue when the V.P. casts the deciding tie-breaking vote.

Again, I would not want this woman anywhere near MY daughter. Just MY opinion. It IS an issue.

Re: Joe Biden???
 

Joe Biden is still lying about the dumbest things. I mean this guy just lies by rote.

Again, he referred to the death of his former wife and child in a care accident 20 some years ago as caused by a drunk driver. This is clearly not true and he knows it.

Obama should dump HIM from the ticket. Sarah is a God send for McCain.

Re: Joe Biden???
 

:bigthumbsup: :bigthumbsup:

Re: Joe Biden???
 

I suppose if Palins daughter got an abortion, everything would be OK?????

Re: Should It Be A Key Issue?
 

Kahuna, You nailed it on this one.

Re: Joe Biden???
 

Kahuna, you're right, it should not be the only thing. I'm just not buying the whole package.

Re: Joe Biden???
 

BTK I agree with you. All sorts of $_it happens in families, whether you are an elected official or not. This pregnancy at this age is tough for everyone. But they will get through it like millions of others past, present and we can guarantee in the future.
You can't hold it against parents. All parents do what they believe is best for their kids....and then they leave the house....all we can do is pray.

How this got off the Joe Bidden link....Lord only knows.

Re: Joe Biden???
 

How this got off the Joe Bidden link....Lord only knows.
__________________________________________________ _________

It is something......the Rev Jeremiah Wright, radical pastor FOR TWENTY YEARS, of maybe our next President did not get as much attention as the daughter and boyfriend of the VP candidate.

I am not sure what it shows but this full assault on Gov Palin the last few days simply has made the election of a President sort of secondary in discussion. I do understand there has to be a public vetting of the Gov, but lets talk about the Presidential candidates background just half as much and do half as much research on Sen Obama and Sen McCain.

Nobody talks about the Keating five or Rev Wright, but they sure take this young teenage girl and her boyfriend very seriously...talk about the many Sen Biden quotes over the years or Gov Palin public policies.

Re: Joe Biden???
 

Just watched Joe Biden on Meet the Press and couldn't be more pleased with Senator Obama's choice for V.P. :#1:


He's not going to put on kid gloves for his debate with Sarah Palin. He doesn't have to . . . she came out bashing and snarling. I thought this was not a good call by the RNC. Yet another! Why am I surprised. :o

Re: Joe Biden???
 

:agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree: :agree:

She was completely on the defense....about everything!

Re: Joe Biden???
 

I was totally ready to like Joe Biden, I've heard so many good things. I felt letdown by his explanations of the different topics questioned by George S. My opinion only, but I missed what generated the hype on this candidate. And all Democratic everything in Washington D.C. is beginning to worry me.... :dontknow:

Re: Joe Biden???
 

For more years of McBush and his choices are worrying me deeply.

Re: Joe Biden???
 

Chels

If Mcbush is fair then LORD OBAMA is fair too. Benj

Re: Joe Biden???
 

....and four more years of a Democratic controlled Senate and Congress which is really the tail that wags the dog. Barrack introduced Joe Biden as the next president of the USA and then corrected it to vice president but I think we know who will run that show. Barrack does not have the experience to hit the floor running and he has no time period in which to learn, he will be president, if elected. Am I the only one who wants Obama/McCain to debate and start today?

(Benj, that Lord Obama is a total turnoff for me, he has a name let's use it and discuss the issues on the table.)

Re: Joe Biden???
 

Re: Joe Biden???
 

I, personally, am looking at the candidates we are discussing and not President Bush. But as long as you brought it up, I don't like name calling.

Re: Joe Biden???
 

So peachie,

Is calling McCain McBush name calling? Benj

Re: Joe Biden???
 

OK, Benj. You and I will stop using McBush and Lord Obama. It's agreed. We'll just debate on our "brilliant and witty" posts, as you put it. ;D

Re: Joe Biden???
 

Chels I hope you ment McBush and if so thanks and I agree.

Cassie,

What is sexist and disgustful is dragging a 17 year old young ladies private life into a campaign and deciding by yourself all the issues surrounding her life and personal business. Benj

Re: Joe Biden???
 

Thanks Benj, I changed it! :bigthumbsup:

Re: Joe Biden???
 

Feel better, Benj? I do ;D. We all sound even more brilliant without that riffraff. :bigthumbsup:

Re: Joe Biden???
 

Well, this started as "Why Joe Biden?"

The answer to that is simple and obvious. Sen. Biden is a mainstay in the Democratic Party (36 years as a senator from Delaware) and provides two key qualities: 1) he is believed to be able to draw the blue-collar rust-belt vote away from Sen. McCain, and 2) is ready to accept VP as his "swan song" from a Delaware elective office, making way for his son, the current Attorney General of Delaware to seek and hopefully easily acquire the "family" senatorial seat.

Sen. Biden has as much of a role and a kinship to Sen. Obama's camp as Sen. Johnson did in Sen. (later President) Kennedy's. Biden, like Johnson, is considered a "political necessity" during the campaign - an that's the end of the line for him after that.

For the voters, politics can be a clash of ideals and opinions. For the professional politicians, it is a business, and business partnerships and mergers occur only for the classical business reasons: 1) get rid of a competitor; and 2) make profit (votes). Just look at the "business" of both campaigns without idealistic rose-colored glasses - it's not pretty and sure isn't idealistic.

I'm not excluding the Republican Party from applying business tactics to politics. Both sides follow these "rules," hoping the customer (voter) is too dumb or blind to notice.

Re: Joe Biden???
 

You know I had/have concerns and still do!!

I am allowed to have those concerns....but this isn't even the right post for this discussion...but I believe you have already told how WRONG I was in the other posting about this....

My opinions are not wrong....and I have NEVER said this is why I am not voting for McCain/PAlin....if you go and look at the posting I made "concerns as a mom" then you would see that I was not doing as you claim I am ..........

I believe that in this forum we are ALOUD to speak our minds and give our opinions....that is what I did....

Isn't that what our admins allow us to do??

Re: Joe Biden???
 

The religion of a candidate should not be a matter of political concern. Whether a politician is pro-death (as opposed to pro-life) or not, and whether that position is contrary to the politican's stated association with a religious entity (in this case, Catholicism) should solely be among the politician, his/her religious counselor/leader, and God (presuming that being religious means in believing there is a God).

Bluntly, the Roman Catholic Church has already addressed the Church's position on the subject.

... The Church's ethical opinion with regard to divorce and procured abortion is unambivalent and known to all: these are grave sins which, to a different extent and taking into account the evaluation of subjective responsibility, harm the dignity of the human person, involve a profound injustice in human and social relations and offend God himself, Guarantor of the conjugal covenant and the Author of life. ... excerpt from the Address of His Holiness Benedict XVI to Participants in an International Congress Organized by the John Paul II Institute for Studies on Marriage and Family,Clementine Hall, Saturday, 5 April 2008 (http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/be...o-gpii_en.html)

Re: Joe Biden???
 

SteveZ, you said you are a father of daughters. I have a question, if you care to answer it. If God Forbid, your daughter was raped or there was a case of incest from strange Uncle Louie, would you want her to have the baby?

I really wouldn't be asking if you had not referred to Pro-Choice as Pro-death.

Re: Joe Biden???
 

I wish I had a dime for every time my spouse and I, and my daughters, talked about this issue and situations which match your hypothetical. That new Maserati woulds already be on order....

Whenever someone is the victim of a crime or injustice, they suffer. The suffering may be physical, psychological or both, but the suffering is real.

Following your hypothetical, "strange Uncle Louie" would receive a prison term or incarceration at an institution for the criminally insane. He would not be put to death, nor would society condone his execution by any family member.

If during the criminal act, "Louie" sliced off a daughter's limb or other body part, that would be part of the suffering of the victim, but society would not amputate any of "Louie's" limbs in retaliation.

The daughter, if pregnant, would find herself akin to someone harmed. However, retaliating on the unborn child (it's not a mass of jello, but a life!) serves no moral or ethical purpose - "Louie" is not affected at all, and no "justice" is served! It's a third party with no voice in the matter and no means of self-protection who would now bear the worst.

For the daughter, having the baby would be a necessity for her to maintain her humanity. Does she have the free will to abort? Yes, as God has given her as part of that humanity the ability to exercise free will. However, exercising free will does not make an action right, as wrong actions (just like "Louie"s) result from exercising free will as well. Knowing the difference is where the teachings of one's religion and family values come into play.

Would it be a burden - Yes.

Would it be "embarrassing" - depends on the character of the people around you.

Would it mean putting life somewhat on-hold, such as school or career - undoubtedly, but the same is true for most rehabilitation, physical and psychological.

Would the family find itself with having to support the daughter in ways never expected - sure, but that happens with being a family as life never works to a programmed script.

Would the child be adopted outside the family - most likely, as the "waiting list" for infants in the US by desirous families is staggeringly long and the "supply" is very limited.

That's what we've discussed as a family. That's the beliefs we hold and why. The alternative is to say one is against capital punishment, except when the victim of a crime declares a third party as being vicariously liable for the act of another, and the third party doesn't even get an opportunity to defend him/herself in any way.

You don't make the victim whole by killing an innocent.

Living up to the beliefs is where it gets tough, but we have our faith and ourselves to lean on.


Epilogue - Life is not fair, but we believe...

Re: Joe Biden???
 

SteveZ, We agree to disagree. But I thank you for your thoughtful answer. It sounds like you have a wonderful family and I hope you do get that Maserati you want one day. :bigthumbsup:

Re: Joe Biden???
 

Am I the only one who wants Obama/McCain to debate and start today?
__________________________________________________ ______________________

No...I am really ready and looking forward to them

Re: Joe Biden???
 

Steve Z

I am speechless .

that was a perfect answer to a difficult question. And so clearly shows the difference between a liberal and conservative point of view. I hope our country is not going down that path. Benj