Suppose you will soon be calling him a mullah, if you haven't already. The hate is so obvious.

This is really amazing this thread about the health care bill. No I think it should be repealed also . Think about this if the government can make you buy healthcare that you dont want how about making you buy a new car and give up the one you have and nothing in return. Or tear down your perfectly good house and build a new one in the name of economic progress.I know that sounds crazy but where does it stop.I plan to retire here a year or two and health insurance is a big consern but I dont want pay more for something I wont get. I want to make up my own minder as to what to buy. The health care bill takes away your freedoms which makes this country a dictatorship dont care how you look at it. Maybe you think I'm wrong and that is ok but (FREEDOM) here today gone tommarow,very good possiblity more and more control is not a good thing. OK go for it folks and tear the truth apart.

One last thing and this is not a personal slam, but a person was voted into office with the promise of change and the country bought it not knowing what they buying into that to me was not a smart purchase. We can't afford the payments of this mistake.

It was only a tweak aimed at the people who defend him against everything and anything said about him, without exception, in a kind of religious fervor. It seems to have struck a nerve with you.

I know you've said much worse against public figures you don't support. I called him "exalted". You should be thrilled.

Dale, the idea that you have expressed, the people do not know what is good for them and therefore the more knowledgeable among us must make the decisions for them has been popular for many hundreds of years. The first clear expression of this idea that I know of is laid out in Plato’s Republic. A brief summary of his ideas is that were to be three classes of people for his ideal government – the rulers who would dictate the rules and laws, the producers who would follow these laws and the accessories (we would describe them as the police and military) who would assure that the producers conformed to the directives of the rulers.

This idea has been repeated many times over the centuries. The Roman Empire replaced the Roman Republic using force of arms to assure that the people (the producers) conform to their leaders ideas. This transformation occurred in the time of Julius Caesar when he became dictator. The same idea was used by the Roman Catholic Church to ban individual reading of the Bible. Ordinary people could not be trusted to understand the word of God – therefore the priest had to explain the meaning to them.

This same theme is repeated through the ages, but let us look at the application of it in the 20th century. The first idea that comes to mind is Eugenics - "applied science or the biosocial movement which advocates the use of practices aimed at improving the genetic composition of a population." This idea was strongly advocated by most of the scientific community together with such notable leaders as Winston Churchill, Woodrow Wilson and Teddy Roosevelt. They believed firmly and honestly that the undesirables, among them Jews, Negros and Asians needed to be kept from ‘breeding’ and eventually eliminated. Let’s not go into the application of this idea by the Third Reich – that horror we do not need to revisit.

The actions of Stalin is Russia, Mao in China and Pol Pot in Cambodia were all based upon the belief that they knew better than the average person what was good for their country and the overall welfare of their people.

This country started with the declaration that, “All men are created equal and endowed by their creator …. with life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” What we are talking about here is liberty – the right to purchase or not to purchase a government product.

You may or not be right that this will be good for the average American citizen. Where you are wrong, IMHO, is believeing that your intelligence is right and the opinion of the people is wrong. That difference entitles you to make the decision for the unenlightened. I disagree, I trust the American people to see through the BS and make a logical decision.

You make too much of what I said. I was merely trying to point out that most people were basing their opposition to the health care bill on the rhetoric and fear-mongering emanating from Fox Noise and the right wing, not on the actual substance of the law.

... yada, yada, yada ... except for blacks, women, homosexuals, people under 21 years of age, indentured servants, slaves, ethnic groups we don't like, ... yada, yada, yada

The need doesn't stay static. Things change over time. Well, some things. The Healthcare crisis in this country is still producing many, many more "have-nots" then we can afford, but there is a whole bunch of "haves" that are very happy with that.

Xavier

Well said.

The Declaration of Independence laid out a set of Principles to guide this country as it went forward. Since 1776, your exceptions have been eliminated. However, the principles that led to their elimination have not changed.

You may wish to read Richie’s signature line again and reflect on Franklin’s wisdom. My new signature line is dedicated to those who believe we should sacrifice liberty to achieve various benefits, whether those benefits are real or imagined.

Dale, I still believe strongly in the wisdom of the people and their freedom to choose.

How many have seen this story from Friday?

http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/a.../obama-shh.jpg
The Obama administrations HHS approves 200 more new healthcare reform waivers, bringing the total of waivers to 1,372.

This is a tacit admission that Obamacare is fundamentally flawed and needs to be scrapped. The reform needs to be reformed.

http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch...eform-waivers-