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Interesting read conn8757. Glad you joined the dialog. The relevance of the cut and paste job comes close to hijacking the thread as it says nothing about the essence of thread. It does give Steve Moore's background. Quite impressive.
I would like to hear your or anyone else's opinion on the implications of Obama's tax plan on the economy and the taxpayer as concerns his tax increases on: corporations inheritance taxes (death taxes) payroll taxes capital gain taxes dividend taxes This was the essence of the thread. Can you speak directly to the points it tries to raise? Do you think business and corporations will pass their tax increases on to the consumers (us) in price hikes....you bet. Will they layoff employees (us) to meet increased tax burdens....you bet. Will investors change strategies to avoid larger capital gains and dividend taxes...you bet. Will that put our economy further in the tank....fill in the blanks. Isn't this really a "stealth" taxation because either way the people are going to pay. It just makes them feel better that the wealthy and business are being hit. If you worked hard, sacrificed and made some money, are you happy about leaving your heirs just 45% of the product of your blood, sweat and tears while the government takes 55% for those that haven't worked so hard. See a good estate planner and ask him/her about what Obama and the democratic Congress want to do with your estate and find out how to hedge against it. Under the evil George Bush tax cuts, the estate (death) tax will be repealed entirely in 2010. In a morbid way, its like going to Atlantic City and hitting the jackpot, your a winner if you die in 2010. No estate taxes. Imagine that, your family gets to keep assets you earned. Thank you Mr. Bush. Obama and the Democratic Congress have announced they will repeal the Bush tax cuts and reinstate the estate tax. No joke, its part of their platform. However, they have promised us that they will not allow it to go back to pre-Bush rates. Now isn't that comforting. You can sleep well tonight because Congress and Obama have promised you it will be ok. Be afraid....be very afraid. Have I mentioned the unbelievable growing of government the Obama and democratic Congress will need to implement their platform? Everyone complains about the Social Security problem....soooo....under Obamanomics we will add a trillion dollar universal health care plan....run of course by THE GOVERNMENT. Now I'm a charitable person and do not want to see anyone denied health care...in fact I support the laws we have today that say no one with a medical emergency can be turned away from a hospital. I know that's the law because its posted in every emergency room in the country. But, wouldn't it be prudent to address Social Security, the banking industry, the national debt and the economy generally before we start monumentally expensive new social initiatives. Like Dude.... tie up the loose ends before we start spending more like a drunken sailor. Chelsea, please, no McCain jokes here. Just my thoughts on Obamanomics....I'm sure there's another perspective out there in the Villages. I assure you I, as well as many others, could create a credible cut and paste hit job on either candidate regarding their campaign ads. I warn you, this whole TOTV thing can be very addicting but it is a great mental exercise. Hope you post often. Have a nice evening. |
If what you say about his tax plan is true, basically no new taxes. And taxes on business don't count as that money either goes to stock holders to be taxed or taxed as the business. Net zero. Than how can he pay for all the things he has promised? The only way is to increase the income tax on the majority of Americans. And those over $250K are far from the majority. In fact only about the top 7% of tax payers. Not sure how this math works.
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I learned all I need to know about Steve Moore with this book title.
"Bullish on Bush: How the Ownership Society Is Making America Richer." He graduated from the University of Illinois and holds a masters degree in economics from George Mason University. |
Cabo you have been had...you should have reused the title that Fox News discussion as reported in the WSJ.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121778298649407961.html Here is a side by side comparison of the Obama and McCain tax cuts... http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/q...8061200193.gif From the Washington Post.. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...060900950.html I think it was Tall Trees that first posted this...but here is what snopes says..looks like you read the same false email. http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/taxes.asp Factcheck http://www.factcheck.org/askfactchec...fits_if_i.html As for the payroll tax....Obama leaves the payroll tax as it is except for people making over $250,000. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/...litics_4179941 Your post has been debunked..... Oh well this has been fun.:) |
Cologal! Thank you for finding that.
Cabo, I rarely joke about McCain. I find him deadly serious and scary. I do have a question though. Not to get personal, but Cabo, do you earn over $250K a year? I mean I might understand your complaints if you do. Just wondering. :shocked: |
Your response does nothing to answer the question I asked in the post. You disregard the entire essence of the post grasping at contrived "gotcha" hits. Please read the first line carefully. You go off tilting with windmills and gleefully credit yourself as a debunker. Amazing, in your zeal to attack what your eyes won't believe, you put together a hip shot cut and paste that addresses an e-mail I never included in my case and somehow want others to believe that you have debunked what I said. You never "debunked" the only quote I used Stephen Moore. Frankly, I had given you more credit. Great propaganda technique by the way. In fact, your own Snopes cut and past does not conflict with anything in my post. Nothing disputes my point on the estate tax. Of course you have to read the point.Try proof reading your own arguments.
I asked for other perspectives, "....I'm sure there's another perspective out there in the Villages" and I get a rambling, diversionary cut and paste. I referenced a short article from CBS news by Larry Kudlow quoting Stephen Moore and you debunk some e-mail I never used and call it debunking. In law enforcement thats called framing the suspect. Sounds like desperation to me. Where did I mention McCain's plan that your cut and paste speak to? I was not clear when I referenced the 95%. I should have said 95% wouldn't be raised and my question reflects that. I listened to Obama frequently during interviews on TV and that is where I culled the facts that helped form my opinion. He defended his capital gains and estate tax positions. You seem to be unable to distinguish what my opinion is and what attribution for a quote is. How do you debunk someone's opinion. Most of my ranting is my opinion sparsely punctuated with source. Debunk the source, you did not, not the opinion. I would like to hear your opinions on the questions I raised. BTW, I look forward to your debunking of my other post regarding the NY Times naming the bad guys in the recent financial meltdown. In that case I did heavily use quotes.........from the NY times. Quote:
Yeah Cologal, like you said, this has been fun. |
I believe if we all do our taxes like Charles Rangel who Nancy Palosi says is safe in his position, just what do we have to worry about?
I'm sorry I forgot it was his tax accountant that made all the errors. :MOJE_whot::MOJE_whot: |
Over time I have come to understand that the Republican talk heads are very good at getting us to fear the pain of taxes but what they don't tell is its their pain. The other day one of John McCain's financial spokespeople was on Hardball trying to explain McCain's statement that the fundamentals of the economy were strong as the Dow lost 500 points. Later it was noted she did that wearing a designer suit the price of which I could never afford.
Cabo .... you are worried about a 45% death tax. Your post said 55% so that was wrong...but unless the estate is greater than 3.5 million the death tax will be zero for both McCain and Obama. In fact that has really always been true..it was when my mother died. My sisters and I paid no death tax because her estate was under the limit...way under. My brother has a large estate and he is 85...his tax guy has already found ways to transfer the money now and reduce the tax bill. He laughs about it. If you look at the tax estimates even though George Bush gave the rich BIG tax cuts McCain wants to give them more. Look at the numbers who benefits the most with McCain tax cuts? It isn't the middle class. One is always able to express their opinion its a free country but you should include false statement disguised as fact like this: The Wall Street Journal’s Steve Moore has done the math on Obama’s tax plan. He says it will add up to a 39.6 percent personal income tax, a 52.2 percent combined income and payroll tax, a 28 percent capital-gains tax, a 39.6 percent dividends tax, and a 55 percent estate tax. I don't make $250,000 per year ....my estate is no where near 3.5 million. In my bracket I will pay slightly more under Obama than McCain but not enough to make a difference to me. Whenever I can I will expose the truth....you can take or leave it. But you can't change the truth. |
When you disproportionately tax those who make the higher incomes, the result is usually higher costs on products and services to everyone else.
Those folk run or own the businesses and are going to maintain their income level despite higher taxes. So, guess who ends up with the bill in the end ? |
For the past 8 years we have seen the affects of the no regulation, no holes barred and trickle down economy. The wealthy were given big tax cuts and the little guys got nothing.
The Republicans deregulated everything they can saying the free market would police itself. The lobbyists wrote the bankruptcy laws to force people to pay even if they could not. But now who is lining up with the hands out and who is going to pay? The pendulum has swung to far in favor of business...it is time now to take care of the middle class. The middle class are the engine of the economy. |
I dont see how anyone dont understand that the last 8 years were not the result of the Demo's. i watched a Repbulican from VA on TV lastnight do everything he could besides take responsibility that the GW administration has really put us in a hole. McCain has danced from one thing to the other, yes we need bailouts,, no we dont, oh wait yes we do.... I am a registered Rep. i hated Bill Clinton.. i had many troops that worked for me go to CM and get a BCD and 6 months in the Brig for doing the samething he did with Monica L. He got into no trouble. But when you look at all the Graphs of what country looked like during his time. We were in great shape. Unlike some of you, i dont wast my time researching to find some smart quote to use out of some political bible that is only as good as you think the person that wrote it is... Obama will do just fine if he wins. 1 person does not run the country, for that fact 100 people dont. It wont matter who wins the big chair... if Congress and the rest of them dont agree to put our country first and what is needed, then nothing will ever be correct. Or we can keep writting checks to bail out CEO's who run their company into the dirt so they can keep their retreats,, Rolls, Benz's, Porche's and so on. if you bail out a company, at least confiscate their belongins to sell off to cover the some of the deal. Just a THOUGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Read it and Weep!
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Quote:
http://i439.photobucket.com/albums/q...lause-done.gif |
Quote:
Bankruptcy laws are "forcing people to pay" debts which arise from taxes, obtaining money or credit by false pretenses, fraud or embezzlement, alimony and child support, willful injury to someone or their property, a fine, an educational loan, or a debt which they failed to list. Also, if the debt is secured by collateral (e.g., car loan) and the debtor wants to keep the collateral, then the debt is reaffirmed. That's really not draconian. |
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