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- The Villages, Florida, Political talk (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-political-talk-88/)

- - Perspective (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-political-talk-88/perspective-17332/)

Quote:

Posted by Guest (Post 164767)

Bucco,

Give it up.

A discussion can only occur when both parties have an open mind devoid of blind fanaticism. When objectiviy gives way to blind fanaticism, communication ends.

There are those who will follow a Pied Piper wherever he leads, despite who his associates are, what his background includes, and no matter how limited his experience is. They refuse to believe that there could be anything wrong with his rhetoric in any way. A Pied Piper is the perfect person. Anyone else is the just is an old-fogey jerk with a temper, and all who question the Pied Piper are misguided idiots and heathens to the message of hope and light.

I must fit into that misguided category, because I see both candidates with a whole host of human faults. I see both have their professional shortcomings, and I don't agree completely with the message of either one. However, I agree less with one because the numbers associated with his message don't add up; he is a mystery man who is like an onion - as more layers are peeled away, the aroma brings more tears than smiles; and he just has no demonstrated managerial experience to run anything at all, not even a neighborhood convenience store let alone a two-million employee worldwide operation. He has not shown the ability to handle high stress (other than long work hours) and no academic or experiential background which shows developed judgment in the combined application of the diplomatic and military sciences.

I enjoy a good intellectual argument where issues can be subjected to offense and defense. However, personal slamming and insults directed towards individuals who have accomplished more in their lives than dozens of others combined, and whose record - whether one believes in their philosophies or not - have been totally focused to national service, seems to be all some people want to do. There must be some type of peculiar joy or perverse jealousy to that, and I just am missing whatever that is.

It's one thing to dissect a person's professional resume as the person interviews for a job. It's another thing to ridicule the person and what they have done. That's just personal prejudice, and it's a losing fight to try to get most bigots to see beyond their prejudice or to even recognize how bigoted they actually are.

I respect all of the Presidential and Vice Presidential candidates for their willingness to undergo what's probably the hardest "job interview" there is, and by having to endure what they do, especially from many people who have no idea what the job description for the President or Vice President contains. It's even worse when the "job interview" includes back-room slamming and insulting from bigots who believe they are open-minded (except towards others who differ in some manner or don't meet their predetermined image of the ideal).

All that being said, I'm going to follow my own advice. I've had it with the slamming, bigotry, snottiness and just downright nastiness which has become commonplace on this board. I had hoped that eventually there would be some maturity in discussion here. Instead, it often sounds worse than a bunch of high-schoolers backbiting those not on the "A" list or bored gossips looking for someone to spread rumors and tales about. So, it's time I bow out of this board. The gossips and bigots can have it.

Bucco, I wish the best of luck to you, Kahuna, Cabo and a few others who may continue to try to have civilized intellectual discussion here. Hope to see you around LSL in the evening (first $1.75 Margarita's on me...). Will be back in mid-December.

Best regards!

This forum will suffer a terrible disservice if SteveZ quits posting due to a few grandparents acting like grandchildren.

Quote:

Posted by Guest (Post 164767)

Steve.....you made an excellent post...well said. So much of what you said well, I tried to say NOT VERY WELL : There does seem to be as you call them an "A" list or bored gossips looking for someone to spread rumors and tales about." The amount of talk about Gov Palin's entire family, the lack of posts on issue laden threads, and the posting in "groups" of at least two is a lot like grade or early high school.

I cant say I will never post again, but it is tiresome being dismissed constantly by folks who believe themselves to be just a bit above us all...I have trouble sometimes not responding, however I am going to try and let them have the playground which is probably their intent in the first place.

We have invaded their space and they are offended !

We, and others, see the pros and cons of all candidates. Sen Obama, your "pied piper" has convinced them that he is the savior and has done it in the classic style that they make movies about.

SteveZ and Bucco, you know you talk a good game. But neither one of you has ever stopped slamming Obama, neither one of you has ever admitted one wrong thing your candidate or candidates have done and neither one of you for one moment been middle of the road or unbiased in any way.

In fact, when I was going to stop posting, you SteveZ, pm'd me asking me NOT to stop posting. What was that a set-up? How Republican of you.

Please don't take that "holier than thou" stance now.

Quote:

Posted by Guest (Post 164810)

Since you mentioned me by name.....

1. I have a number of times, and recently on the bail out, mentioned how wrong I thought Sen McCain was on that issue and in the past I have talked about other positions he has I do not agree with. I have also said, probably in double figures, that I do not support Sen McCain as much as I oppose Sen Obama.

THUS YOUR STATEMENT IS NOT TRUE !!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:

Posted by Guest (Post 164812)

If that is true (and I'd have to read back) then I will apologize to you Bucco.

But, I sure would like to see SteveZ respond. :popcorn:

Quote:

Posted by Guest (Post 164815)

If that is true (and I'd have to read back) then I will apologize to you Bucco.

But, I sure would like to see SteveZ respond. :popcorn:

From Oct 4....thread = Guess who sued Citibank for not giving risky mortgages ?

"....I am livid with Sen McCain for the vote on the bail out filled with all the pork. I disagree on any number of issues with him."

From Oct 2...thread = VP candidates: Roe V Wade

"Listen...there are those on here who just wont listen to me when I explain where I stand...they think I am some Republican that is just dealing out bad stuff on Sen Obama.....right now I am so angry at Sen McCain for voting for the bailout with all the pork added and when I say I will vote and vote for him because he is by far the lesser of two evils I am most sincere."

From Sept 2..thread = Doesnt look like Gov Palin is failing

"You have got to be kidding. It gets old...let me say it again as I have said over and over.....

I am not a supporter of Sen McCain
I am TERRIFIED about the possiblity of Sen Obama becoming... "

And I know you have heard me say that I did not want Sen McCain to get the nomination.......I said in another thread that a middle of the road Democrat would have gotten my vote. Will be glad to dig them out for you.

On Steves behalf, here is a quote from the very post that you are rep-lying to....

"I must fit into that misguided category, because I see both candidates with a whole host of human faults. I see both have their professional shortcomings, and I don't agree completely with the message of either one"

I think you are blinded by something !!

OK, Bucco. I apologize.

Now, I've just heard by pm from SteveZ and he is upset with me about asking about McCain's mental health and how people don't understand about "Agent Orange".

I wrote him back to tell him that I DO understand. My Godfather was wounded in Viet Nam and suffered through 26 operations on both of his legs just to get him to walk a little. Not to mention the 2 high school buddies that were killed there. And we have a dear young man that used to work for us, now serving his fourth term in Iraq. We are very close to him and pray every night.

I understand. And I want it stopped. I think the question of McCain's mental health and follow-up psychological help is an important issue.

http://themoderatevoice.com/at-tmv/n...h-is-an-issue/

I went on to tell SteveZ that he should continue posting as he fought for his (and my) freedom of speech. Let's not forget that folks! FREEDOM OF SPEECH! With all of that said, I stand by the fact that I think John McCain's mental health is as valid (maybe more) as any other issue.

If you are going to quote me, please do so accurately.

As you decided to make public a private post, here's the post in entirety:

You may have been right before.

This just has become too much name-calling, slamming of others in gossipy fashion, and darned little discussion as to issues and facts.

I have to admit when it gets down to remarks about a person's captivity and mental health counseling in a negative manner, that hits too close to me and the people I spend a lot of my time with. We've lived with those innuendoes for decades, and every time we get ticked off, it's "Oh, it must be the Agent Orange, again" or crap like that. I guess you just have had to deal with it to understand....

My "slam" on Sen. Obama has always been on his credentials and qualifications - never on the man. I never insulted him for any part of his ethnicity, age, or general character. I have taken great exception to his lack of experience.

I truly enjoy debating issues and positions, as that's how I learn and understand. I'm just tired of the petty bigotry that goes on within the guise of "political opinion."

Yeah, there are better things to do...

All the best!

Many may believe Freedom of Speech included license to insult, but that doesn't mean it should be practiced.

Adios

SteveZ, I apologize, I simply paraphrased your pm.

It's all the same. And McCain's mental health is still an issue in my mind. :sad:

Quote:

Posted by Guest (Post 164847)

SteveZ, I apologize, I simply paraphrased your pm.

It's all the same. And McCain's mental health is still an issue in my mind. :sad:

And explain to us why Sen Obama's associates,training and background are not issues as you have said a few times !!

Sad to see you leave stevez. I haven't been involved with TOTV or the Political Forum for very long, but have enjoyed your levelheaded, thoughtful posts. It's too bad that the type of responses that this forum has all too often generated, has cause a concientious thinker like steve to leave.
I'll take you up on that Margarita, even if it has to be virgin, in Novenber.