| Guest |
06-20-2015 05:17 AM |
Quote:
Posted by Guest
(Post 1076333)
Perhaps this dialogue will be useful. Please read your post as it might appear to an atheist like me. Your claim that in a secular world evil people take control is wrong. You can certainly name some non-religious people who are evil and took control... Pot, Stalin for example, but I can name evil people who are performing their acts of evil because of their faith, as can you. You, I am sure, are very aware of the sad history of both Eastern and Western religions being the justification for war, slavery, slaughter, political and economic malice. And one need not go back to the Crusades nor the Spanish Inquisition for Christian examples. So the claim that it is preferable having leaders come from people of strong faith is wrong if they are using their particular book or their particular god(s) in their decision making.
Your next posit that science and religion are twins as both are faith based is errant. It is true that both have unknowns. But science and only science is disprovable (until we get a time machine). People of faith will tell you that there is no evidence, no study, no photograph, no document, nothing that will alter their belief. It will be a trick played by others to test their faith. Science tests, retests, tweaks and modifies. Science is mutable and fallible. Religion is immutable and infallible. Justice demands that evidence be examined and considered in making a decision. Religion demands that all observations fit a preconceived endpoint.
Justice Scalia has never seemed humbled to me.
We completely agree that our Western democracy has evolved from other Western institutions and ideas and prior governmental failures, including the failure of our own early country. And I will strongly support your freedom of religion whether it be Christian or Wiccan or anything. I want you to just as strongly support my freedom from your religion or any other religion being promoted by my government, and that when you enter government service you leave your holy book at home and use our laws to govern. That you decide what is Constitutional based on the Constitution not on Leviticus.
And lastly, while your invention of a god may bring out the best in some, it also brings out the worst in some. And yes, I think I am a moral and good person. If there is a god and there is a heaven which is meant as a reward for living a moral life here on earth, and I'm not allowed into heaven because I failed to accept a doctrine, then there is something very wrong with the entry requirements into heaven.
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Dear Guest: I like the way you think and I like the way point, counter point. It may surprise you to know, perhaps not ,that much of what you said has crossed my mind over the years. Consider this as I address each of your five paragraphs in consecutive order.
You open with evil done in the name of religion. I have previously addressed and acknowledged that fact in previous posts including the one you copied for the above stated response. However, I believe those religious evil doers were following their selfish goals and not God's and I believe it is an oxymoron to place God and evil together. Secondly you cite the Crusades, etc as examples and again I agree but and while not excusable you have to judge such actions in their time as relates to the political climate at the time etc. For instance the Catholic Church has drastically changed over the centuries. As a side bar I work with due diligence to separate man's actions from God message. For instance Pope Francis exhibits some fine qualities but his anti-capitalist tendencies demonstrate his breeding in a socialist nation which I dislike . Of course I believe the critical factor here is how one perceives his God and my God is a God of love, unity and an intolerance for immorality and hate.
You next dispute the relationship between religion and science yet many documents handed down through the ages by religious people have a sound scientific basis. If one openly looks at the universe and all of its creature it is hard to imagine that it has developed by happenstance. Its like saying that a building loaded to the top with alpha-numeral characters and having exploded created a complete set of encyclopedias. A serious look at how the human body and mind functions places one in awe. There is a book out called "The Strange Case of the Rickety Cossack" which posit on how because of bias, desire etc scientist have committed fraud over the years in all fields of science much of what has resulting in leading us astray about earth's history.
As to Judge Scalia I view his demeanor as being confident which does not preclude his being humble
Again I say that the Charters of Freedom were based on our Judeo-Christian beliefs. without going into detail the pilgrims faith sustained them and Christianity has had a great influence since the Europeans crossed the Atlantic. Rule of law etc was formed from the principles of religion such as God made us all free..................................
Finally I say again but for the idea of one God I do not believe people would be civil or moral because it was through such teachings that bound us altogether, again imperfect as it maybe because nature has its limits and religion has played a major role and overcoming those limits. So whether one believes in God or not religious influences influence us all believers and non-believers alike .
Personal Best Regards: |
