Except that "civil union" doesn't do that. The 1600 'benefits' of marriage that a congressional study outlined are benefits of just that - marriage.

Richie and ilovetv: You are proceeding from a false assumption.

The "liberal left" isn't trying to replace marriage. You could make an argument that they're trying to "widen the tent" to include more but that's about it.

NOT ONCE - NEVER - has any advocate taken measures to legislate away someone's "traditional" marriage - yet this is what conservatives are doing in states that DO allow gay marriages.

To anti-same-sex-marriage conservatives, I say the following: My gay aunt DOESN'T GIVE A SICK DINGO'S KIDNEY about "your" marriage - why would you be so concerned about hers?

I had my eyes opened on this topic some years ago. I had no idea about the kinds of discrimination that went on - the kinds of terrible stories that I've since heard. And yet there are some people out there who claim to know what the "real agenda" is of people they know nothing about.

That's the part that gets me the most angry.

I'm not saying the liberals are intentionally destroying the binding fabric of our society. They are being exploited and are being duped. I know you protest and don't believe it. It will be too late when you do.

Read Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals" and you'll get some idea what is the real agenda. Well meaning dupes will be the death of the American Dream.

I know more righteous outrage will be directed at me, but I can take it. The country cannot.

Richie, I've barely heard of Saul Alinsky - and never before the last couple of years. There's no way on this earth that he's influencing me from beyond the grave. Any 'lackeys' or 'disciples' of his aren't going to be able to influence me. I make up my own mind on things. I weigh the pros and cons of each side.

Liberals seem to hate my more conservative views (was called worse than Atilla the Hun in the 80s) and conservatives seem to think I'm liberal (one calling me a 'pro death windbag' in the 1990s).

Who influenced me?

The writing of Thomas Jefferson.

A guy in 1980 named Roy Stone who once said to me "What makes you think the government owes you a living?"

Ask me my influences - or why I made my mind up on something and I'll be more than happy to tell you.

Sorry, unacceptable to most right wingers. Unless you fall into lock-step on each and every one of thier pet stances, and positions, you are a left wing liberal wacko.

I did not know that until I started reading the posts on this forum. The conservatives I know personally will at least consider alternative ideas. Compromise is the only way to have us all live together and some do not wish to compromise.