Religious Freedom Law

» Site Navigation
Home Page The Villages Maps The Villages Activities The Villages Clubs The Villages Book Healthcare Rentals Real Estate Section Classified Section The Villages Directory Home Improvement Site Guidelines Advertising Info Register Now Video Tutorials Frequently Asked Questions
» Newsletter Signup
» Premium Tower
» Advertisements
» Trending News
» Tower Sponsors




















» Premium Sponsors
» Banner Sponsors
» Advertisements
 
Thread Tools
  #76  
Old 04-05-2015, 12:14 PM
Guest
n/a
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest View Post
Just out of curiosity ...

If a Christian activist walks into a gay owned/operated bakery (in any state) and request a wedding cake with the inscription "Oppose Homosexual Marriage", and the gay baker refuses to serve him ... should the gay baker be brought into court for discrimination?
Making a cake does not involve speech, it is the production of a product which is devoid of speech. Inscribing involves speech and no one can be compelled to either speak or be silent. This is well established by law. So nice straw man try.

Some are also turning to the court decision against Masterpiece Cakeshop, which refused business from a gay couple in search of a wedding cake. In the December 2013 decision, administrative law judge Robert N. Spencer repeatedly drew a distinction between refusing service to an individual and refusing to inscribe a specific message on a cake, noting:


Respondents argue that if they are compelled to make a cake for a same-sex wedding, then a black baker could not refuse to make a cake bearing a white-supremacist message for a member of the Aryan Nation; and an Islamic baker could not refuse to make a cake denigrating the Koran for the Westboro Baptist Church.

However, neither of these fanciful hypothetical situations proves Respondents’ point. In both cases, it is the explicit, unmistakable, offensive message that the bakers are asked to put on the cake that gives rise to the bakers’ free speech right to refuse. That, however, is not the case here, where Respondents refused to bake any cake for Complainants regardless of what was written on it or what it looked like.


If your religion forbids whites and blacks to marry, you cannot refuse to serve mixed couples or rent them a home, or allow them in your hotel. You may decline to say happy anniversary to them, you may decline to speak to them at all, but you must serve them the same you would any other couple. That was the problem with the Indiana law prior to being amended and the Arkansas bill prior to being amended. If giving businesses legal protection to discriminate was not the purpose for this law, it had none as the Federal law already provided the basic protection. The only need for a state provision is to go beyond Federal regulations as a state cannot have lower level of civil rights protections.
  #77  
Old 04-05-2015, 12:22 PM
Guest
n/a
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest View Post
The little baker has every right to state he would not be comfortable baking a cake for gays as his religion believes in traditional marriage. And the gay couple have the right to shop elsewhere. Its a win win for both
No, it is not a win/win. The baker may state he is not comfortable (his free speech) but he does not have a right to refuse service if he is operating a business. And the gay couple has a right to shop and be served at any business in the same manner as a straight, or transgender person. You want to call your bakery "The Christian Bakery" go ahead, but a little fish everywhere, post Leviticus passages all around. But when you open a business to the public you don't discriminate no matter what personal animosity you harbor.
  #78  
Old 04-05-2015, 01:02 PM
Guest
n/a
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest View Post
No, it is not a win/win. The baker may state he is not comfortable (his free speech) but he does not have a right to refuse service if he is operating a business. And the gay couple has a right to shop and be served at any business in the same manner as a straight, or transgender person. You want to call your bakery "The Christian Bakery" go ahead, but a little fish everywhere, post Leviticus passages all around. But when you open a business to the public you don't discriminate no matter what personal animosity you harbor.
What about all those signs in businesses, especially restaurants, that say:

"We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone."

Is this an illegal sentiment? Why would a proprietor hang one of these signs explicitly threatening an action he knows to be illegal?

Honestly curious...
  #79  
Old 04-16-2015, 07:01 PM
Guest
n/a
 
Posts: n/a
Default

If we bring back the draft to conscript people to fight in more useless wars, ie. Viet Nam, Iraq, Afghanistan and if Ace aviator John McCain has his way Iran, this stupid law will stop the draft dead in its tracks. Seems like we did n't care about homosexuality and religious beliefs when we needed cannon fodder for wasting people's lives to stop the spread of "communism". As Sarah Palin would say "how did that work out for you?"
  #80  
Old 04-16-2015, 07:40 PM
Guest
n/a
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest View Post
Who exactly is going to buy your "conservative" products? I'm sure there won't be any women, African Americans, Asians, Hispanics, gays, lesbians, or any other minority(other than tea party bigots) that will spend a dime there. I believe your "conservative businesses" will make the new law a moot point. You see greed will win out. It always does with YOUR KIND!
Probably the same patrons who have made chick fila and hobby lobby such success stories
  #81  
Old 04-17-2015, 11:10 AM
Guest
n/a
 
Posts: n/a
Default A society creates rules to live by!

The purpose of any society is to provide a group in which like-minded people want to live. Rules are a reflection of the mores, intentions, and way-of-life the particular group wants for themselves. Mideastern societies want to live under Sharia law, more power to them as a willing group of people. In the US our free society provides a set of rules under the Constitution by which we originally agreed to ban together. In the 21st Century the compact is no longer effective. We have no standards of behavior, personal discipline and think each group is "entitled" to personal gain and respect. The US needs to breakup into smaller countries, probably 4, each of which can offer people a choice of values.
  #82  
Old 04-17-2015, 12:00 PM
Guest
n/a
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest View Post
The purpose of any society is to provide a group in which like-minded people want to live. Rules are a reflection of the mores, intentions, and way-of-life the particular group wants for themselves. Mideastern societies want to live under Sharia law, more power to them as a willing group of people. In the US our free society provides a set of rules under the Constitution by which we originally agreed to ban together. In the 21st Century the compact is no longer effective. We have no standards of behavior, personal discipline and think each group is "entitled" to personal gain and respect. The US needs to breakup into smaller countries, probably 4, each of which can offer people a choice of values.
I agree that we are widely separated by what can be termed a values disagreement. You can call it Red States / Blue States with a few purple ones in the mix. It's basically a conflict of morality in terms of how one defines it.

However, breaking the country up into 4 or 3 or even two new countries would cause everyone to lose. Historically, this has usually resulted in problems and ultimately military defeat ... which should that happen, will trump any values disagreements we have.

Rodney King's words still ring true ... "can't we all just get along?" We had better learn to.
  #83  
Old 04-17-2015, 01:08 PM
Guest
n/a
 
Posts: n/a
Default

People of faith will follow the written word of thir specific God. They have no respect for the law IF THE LAW does not mimic their faith. The question is, which faith and version of that faith is to be followed in America? Or perhaps, the country should have freedom of religion and allow a democratic process decide on civil laws that would
NOT ALLOW GOVERNMENT TO ENFRINGE ON ANY RELIGION OR ALLOW RELIGIOUS FOLLOWERS TO ENFRINGE ON THOSE THAT BELIEVE DIFFERENTLY THAN THEY DO.
  #84  
Old 04-17-2015, 01:26 PM
Guest
n/a
 
Posts: n/a
Default Wow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest View Post
People of faith will follow the written word of thir specific God. They have no respect for the law IF THE LAW does not mimic their faith. The question is, which faith and version of that faith is to be followed in America? Or perhaps, the country should have freedom of religion and allow a democratic process decide on civil laws that would
NOT ALLOW GOVERNMENT TO ENFRINGE ON ANY RELIGION OR ALLOW RELIGIOUS FOLLOWERS TO ENFRINGE ON THOSE THAT BELIEVE DIFFERENTLY THAN THEY DO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdB-qR_IJ9I
  #85  
Old 04-17-2015, 03:31 PM
Guest
n/a
 
Posts: n/a
Post

Crazy gay people, expecting to buy stuff with money they earned.
  #86  
Old 04-17-2015, 03:51 PM
Guest
n/a
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I wonder why gay people who make outlandish demands on everyone else are now on an anti-religious campaign?

I wonder why they become so intellectually violent if someone disagrees with their agenda?

I don't like eastern Indian food does that make me a bigot? I think not

I don't like watching gay day pride parades. Does that make me a homophobic?

I don't like watching basketball or hockey. Does that make me a bigot?

I wouldn't let nudist in my photographic business. Does that make me a bigot?
  #87  
Old 04-17-2015, 04:34 PM
Guest
n/a
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest View Post
Probably the same patrons who have made chick fila and hobby lobby such success stories
Basically, if a store owner has made it clear that they have different values than I do, I will not shop there. There are many thousands like me, too. We refuse to shop at Chic-Fil-A and Hobby Lobby based on the store's principles.

I fully realize that my few dollars and the few dollars of people like me do not make any difference to these stores, but it is still an expression of my opinion.
  #88  
Old 04-17-2015, 04:37 PM
Guest
n/a
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest View Post
I wonder why gay people who make outlandish demands on everyone else are now on an anti-religious campaign?

I wonder why they become so intellectually violent if someone disagrees with their agenda?

I don't like eastern Indian food does that make me a bigot? I think not

I don't like watching gay day pride parades. Does that make me a homophobic?

I don't like watching basketball or hockey. Does that make me a bigot?

I wouldn't let nudist in my photographic business. Does that make me a bigot?
Those individual actions do not make you homophobic or a bigot. Combining all of them and then claiming you specifically are not homophobic or a bigot does speak a different story. In other words, "Me thinks he doth protest too much."
  #89  
Old 04-18-2015, 05:57 AM
Guest
n/a
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest View Post
Those individual actions do not make you homophobic or a bigot. Combining all of them and then claiming you specifically are not homophobic or a bigot does speak a different story. In other words, "Me thinks he doth protest too much."
Dear Guest:

First the quote "He doth protest too much, me thinks" doesn't apply. I only ventured an opinion, not a protest.

Secondly while it is not true that I am either homophobic or a bigot even if it were true what difference does it make, providing I live my life without interfering in other lives? Why is it that I am denied choices? Why is it I am subjected to being called names just because of my values? Have we finally reached that Orwellian world. Why is it OK for Home Depot to push for gay issues without ridicule but a place like Chick Fil A is subjected to demands and vilified? The Indian spices do not agree with my taste buds. Its no more than that. My daughter loves the stuff.

The reason we are having this conversation is that many people are sick and tired of the intellectual violence being advanced by the gay community to anyone who opposes their idea of what the world should look like.

Cest la vie
  #90  
Old 04-18-2015, 06:51 AM
Guest
n/a
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest View Post
Dear Guest:

First the quote "He doth protest too much, me thinks" doesn't apply. I only ventured an opinion, not a protest.

Secondly while it is not true that I am either homophobic or a bigot even if it were true what difference does it make, providing I live my life without interfering in other lives? Why is it that I am denied choices? Why is it I am subjected to being called names just because of my values? Have we finally reached that Orwellian world. Why is it OK for Home Depot to push for gay issues without ridicule but a place like Chick Fil A is subjected to demands and vilified? The Indian spices do not agree with my taste buds. Its no more than that. My daughter loves the stuff.

The reason we are having this conversation is that many people are sick and tired of the intellectual violence being advanced by the gay community to anyone who opposes their idea of what the world should look like.

Cest la vie
Great post, as were your questions in the previous post. Only a twisted mind could have possibly turned that into a claim of racism and/or bigotry. It was clear to any thinking person that you were talking about choices. The hypocrisy that we now see in this country is astounding, as those who demand choices and acceptance denounce anyone who may have a differing opinion.
 

Thread Tools

You are viewing a new design of the TOTV site. Click here to revert to the old version.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:38 PM.