How can you be so certain? America is different, we are larger and obviously have been in more wars.

How can you be so certain that I am wrong? Remember that integration of African-Americans was frought with the same arguements that you are bringing to the table right now - and I think that worked out okay.

Like I said, everyone has to bring it down to the baser aspects. They want to live OPENLY. They want to live OPENLY AND PROUDLY as men who are sexually attracted to other men and then live in the communal living of the military.

I don't understand how you don't understand this.

Isn't this why women don't live in the no privacy communal living arrangement in the military with heterosexual men?

Eisenhower put men together of different races, not of different sexual orientations. It's a ludicrous comparison.

Do you want to sit on a toilet in a room without partitions next to heterosexual males, or take a shower in that same open room with them? Sexual orientation wise, it's the same situation.

You think men should be forced to share this open non-private space with men who are sexually attracted to men. Why shouldn't women share the same space with men who are sexually attracted to women?

I think you must be thinking of someone else in you liberal mag statement, because that wasn't me.

The comparison is silly. The race issue is non-compatible with forcing men to share their non-private communal living space with men who want to live OPENLY as MEN WHO ARE SEXUALLY ATTRACTED TO OTHER MEN.

If they were content to live privately, that's what they've been doing forever. They want to now live OPENLY. Come on, how can you not understand this?

Richie,

This conversation about gays in the military could get really good over a couple or three ice-cold Yeunglings. I am sorry I will not be able to be at the watering hole on Monday with you and the others. I will be out of town but back the following week.

Hopefully, this forum can exist a week without my wit - or is that only half true?

Enjoy your trip and we'll keep the brewskis on ice anticipating your return. I'm sure they'll be even more pressing issues demanding our attention when you return.

Without my wit?......half?.........wait, wait......I'm thinking I'm on this side of some Buggy humor here.........uhhhhhhhhh......no......I lost it.:laugh:

Comparing race with sexual orientation? Really?:ohdear:

proud dem (moonbat)
 

I wish you two guys would get it straight(pun intended)

Obviously, you think that sexual orientation is a choice. But you would be wrong.

Your you trying to bait me, again? Show me where I came to that conclusion?

Here....

Any gay that wants to join the military we will just first have them stop off at Michelle's hubbys place and get fixed, errrrr, straigntened out. That should take care of the DADT or anything else that you all are worried about.

Get real we have had gays in the military since there was a military and maybe before that.

The statement that the US has been in more wars than Europe shows that you are not a student of history. We are way behind in the war score box against Europe. They started way before America was even thought of.

"Originally Posted by RichieLion
So the liberals at Science Daily have concluded that liberals are smarter than conservatives. Gee, who woulda thunk it?"

Does this jog your memory? Do you think all scientiests are liberal? I can tell you that from first hand experience as someone who has done research, that they are not. I could tell you the blood, sweat and tears that go into designing a research study, doing a very encompassing literature search, framing the null hypothesis, selecting and justifying your statistical model, choosing your level of probability, defending your statistical model, explaining why you are using a one or two tailed t test, defining the degrees of freedom of each variable, how you are defining your universe of subjects, how you then randomized that universe and it goes on and on. Implying a conclusion is due to falsifying data is a terrible thing to say unless you can prove it using the principles I stated above. I did my own research and mentored many many more studies.
Scientific research is hard. How many research projects have you done?

Back to the other issue: What makes you think every gay man is attracted to every straight man? My gay friends have great gaydar and they don't approach straight men. As I said, they are not stupid. If they happen to be having a bad gaydar day, they tell me they apologize to the guy and walk away. Gay men are not predators after every man's junk. Do you lust after every woman you see in an uncontrollable way? You have been sharing bathrooms with gay men your entire life.

As to the issue of intergrating the military not being the same as having gays serving openly, it is exactly the same thing. Prejudices had to be addressed and why drag this out? As I said 3 times before, do you think Eisenhower was a liberal social engineer? Calling everything you don't like liberal is kind of weak.

As to flaunting their lifestyle, once again, what makes you think they will do that? I agree that ANY PDAs (public displays of affection) while in uniform are out of bounds be it gay or straight. There are rules in place to deal with these issues and should be applied to gays just as they are to heterosexuals.

Really! Both are genetic, not choices people make. :ohdear:

Excellent answer!

Integrating different races is different then sexual orientation. If you can't see that then you do not have enough practical experience. Social experiments do not belong in our military forces.

I'm going to make this my last post on the mandated total integration of OPENLY PRACTICING homosexuals in the the open area non-private communal living arrangements that is the US military.

Trying to discuss this subject with liberal women who are obviously and totally ignorant of the military life, especially where it concerns the world of men, is frustrating and pointless.

I know you will take offense to that statement, but it's no less true because you do. So, I'm expecting it.

I would bet if any of you women walked in a bathroom or shower room today, and you walked into one open room with sinks on one wall, and toilets on another and shower heads sticking out of the wall at the end, you would quickly turn around and walk out of that room. You wouldn't be thinking of anything else except the lack of privacy there. Now you want to install that room into the highly charged subject I'm talking about and throw some b.s. at me about Pres. Eisenhower. For pete's sake!!

That's it, and that's all. Now you can say what you want to say, as I've said my piece.

OK and here is my last word. Liberal is not a dirty word. You use that adjective whenever you want to bolster a shaky premise. And you completely ignored your own quote about the science magazine being liberal...still would like to know on what grounds you say that. Does your last word include not answering that? I will assume that it does.

Ok, I forgot the article. I obviously posted that article because it tickled me and I wanted to irk liberals with it. That was probably the only reason and it seems it worked to perfection.

Thanks for reminding me and for the smile I have on my face at this minute.

If you think sounding ignorant is amusing, more power to you. At least you amuse yourself. I don't believe that is why you posted it...I think you can't justify what you posted. But oh well...

I didn't go back through my posts and look for it, but because I don't remember it, I have to assume I was "poking"; a favorite pastime of mine.

Although, now that I think about it, I can't find fault with the premise.

This is not the first time a liberal, or a woman, found my humor less than stellar, and I'm sure you'd find my wife in agreement with you on this. But it is what it is, I think..

So you don't like women or liberals. Wow, must be sort of lonely around your house.

Where is your proof that homosexuality is genetic?

Why????? They are already there and most other major nations have already done it.

And both you and Richie Lion are out of the service..... LOL (Laugh its just a joke)

Ok... try this one on for size. Point of clarification....The debate is are you born this way or do you choose. Agreed?

So if sexual orientation is a choice for homosexuals then it must be a choice for heterosexuals. So I assume that you are a heterosexual....

The question is when did you choose to be a heterosexual? At what age? Or maybe you didn't choose, you just always knew.

Awaiting your answer.

With your reasoning...Horses live in barns. Therefore, if I live in a barn, I must be a horse? Or if I don't live in barn I can't be a horse?...

As far as the genetic proof, I'm pretty sure the research is not conclusive either way yet...Unless you know something that I don't, which was my original question.

You've taken quite a leap, or you're just being silly. I'm not sure which; maybe both.

But you don't live in a barn and other animals live a barn.

I noticed you didn't answer the question.....Why???

And one study at UCLA found a genetic marker in the DNA of gay male twins Xq28. Here the link

http://discovermagazine.com/2007/jun/born-gay

However, as I know you are a devout Christian, from one of your posts, the only acceptable proof is in the Bible.

OK, so scientists think they have proof of inbred homosexuality. But, do you think that sexual behavior cannot be taught and learned?

Thanks for the link. I honestly am willing to learn and will read their study and continue to look for a couple more to support their findings...that is only logical to take the word of 2 or three.

The Bible my source of truth and I believe it contains all the answers to any questions that we have. However, I have yet to find sound evidence in the Bible telling me to view the practice in either a good or bad light. God is the God of science also, and I think he will allow the truth to be found one day. At the end of the day, as a Christian I am called to love others with no strings or restrictions attached. When I am able to do that, He always takes care of the details for me.

Well, isn't that the truth. These so-called educated people sit in their sterile room listening to their draft-dodging professors telling their world view which consists of listening to their liberal draft dodging professors, and the beat goes on. Listen to real science not unproven classroom claptrap. A scientist can guess what it might feel like walking on the moon, but a real astronaut can tell you for real.

Thanks.....

Ok sorry to do this but....

In my family military unit there are 3 votes and I asked:

USMC - Worried
US Navy - Who Cares
US Army - What's the big deal.

In the service right now....

By your unofficial poll, assuming we have approximately 3 million military personnel both active and reserve (according to Wiki, anyway), that means we have 1 million military personnel who are worried about these new imposed changes in decorum. That's a pretty big number.

:laugh::laugh: That's your DNA related family?

You are correct but I have twice that number.....

2 out of 3......LOL

Quite a few people use the Bible to support their persecution of gays (largely because of what Saul/Paul wrote). I appreciate that you have not come to the same conclusion.

If you're willing to take the word of someone who has gays in his family and was raised by a technically bisexually but, for all intents and purposes, lesbian aoptive mother - and yet still managed to "turn out" straight, married, with two kids - it might give you some more insight to consider.

66% don't care. That is a pretty big majority, don't you think? And as I have been thinking of this issue, I realized you have been using the wrong analogy. The analogy is not gay male military-straight male military vs. straight male military and straight military women. It is gay women military-straight women military. So, I am going to call my niece, an air force plane technician and ask her to talk to some of the ladies and see what they say. I think their answers will be more like 80% plus don't care. Women are not as threatened by these kind of sexual issues as men are.