Talk of The Villages Florida
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Talk of The Villages Florida (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/)
-   The Villages, Florida, Political talk (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-political-talk-88/)
-   -   Rick (https://www.talkofthevillages.com/forums/villages-florida-political-talk-88/rick-47033/)

Guest 01-06-2012 10:32 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437244)
Where do you get your facts on how well informed people are and how well the dig for the facts? ...Ads and headlines?
It's my opinion, based on personal observation - never meant it as fact and didn't think anyone would see it as such.

Guest 01-06-2012 10:39 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437254)
It's my opinion, based on personal observation - never meant it as fact and didn't think anyone would see it as such.
ditto

Guest 01-06-2012 11:45 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437237)
Most American voters, unfortunately, are not like the circle you travel with. They are not digging deep but feeding on the headlines without reading deep into the articles.

Lots and lots of the statements will stay with the candidate even though it may not true. Some is due to the stupidity of the candidate - such as the rock with the N-word on Perry's hunting lodge. Why couldn't that have just been buried or broken up years ago instead of just turned over? Even though Perry had nothing to do with it, that stain will stay with him.

It is a mistake to mention race in a campaign because some will take it as a slur no matter what was said. It is a lose-lose situation.

Same thing goes for gay and lesbian issues. No matter what is said, someone will take offense to it.
I have to agree with you here most forthrightly my friend Buggy. By your own words here you allude to the fact that Democrats count on people who are shallow, ill informed and misinformed. It's facts that get in the way of Democrats keeping power.

Here's hoping there's more informed people than there are Democrat voters.

Guest 01-07-2012 10:12 AM
[QUOTE=RichieLion;437265]I have to agree with you here most forthrightly my friend Buggy. By your own words here you allude to the fact that Democrats count on people who are shallow, ill informed and misinformed. It's facts that get in the way of Democrats keeping power.

Here's hoping there's more informed people than there are Democrat voters.[/QUOTE]

So you're saying that Democrat voters are uninformed. Pretty arrogant statement in my opinion. Does that mean anyone who votes for any Democrat, or just those that vote a straight Democrat ticket? Do you have a link that indicates that is the case?

Guest 01-07-2012 10:35 AM
Richie, I meant voters of all parties. Lots of uninformed on both sides of the aisle. Those who say they will vote for anyone but Republican and those who say they would never vote Republican no matter who the candidate is.

Both parties want voters who are shallow and ill-informed. They count on the 30 second sound bites to sway voters.

Of course, that would never happen here in The Villages since everyone here is savvy enough to read all the information available in newspapers online and to listen to different news channels to get all the viewpoints - and then sort it out for themselves.

Guest 01-07-2012 12:11 PM
[quote=RichieLion;437352]
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437343)

No, I'm saying that is what Buggy alluded to in his post I was commenting on. Trouble with comprehension?
No, not in this case, at least. It was your editorial comment at the end. Must be nice to live in your world, where it is always the other person who doesn't comprehend, or is unintelligent.

Guest 01-07-2012 12:17 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437343)
So you're saying that Democrat voters are uninformed. Pretty arrogant statement in my opinion. Does that mean anyone who votes for any Democrat, or just those that vote a straight Democrat ticket? Do you have a link that indicates that is the case?

No, I'm saying that is what Buggy alluded to in his post I was commenting on. Trouble with comprehension?

Guest 01-07-2012 12:23 PM
[quote=eweissenbach;437391]
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437352)

No, not in this case, at least. It was your editorial comment at the end. Must be nice to live in your world, where it is always the other person who doesn't comprehend, or is unintelligent.
Sorry if you don't get my humor. Although behind my humor is the truth. I do believe that the more informed the American, the more conservative in political thought he would be. (the key word above is "American"; think about my meaning before jumping to conclusions)

I know what the essence of being an American is. Too many have forgotten what this country represents and now believe that "being their brother's keeper" is now a government mandate and not just a moral ideal.

I can get way more detailed in this conversation if you desire, but you should glean my meaning and my intent from the little I've written.

Guest 01-07-2012 12:25 PM
[QUOTE=RichieLion;437395]No, I'm saying that is what Buggy alluded to in his post I was commenting on. Trouble with comprehension?[/QUOTE]

No, not in this case, at least. It was your editorial comment at the end. Must be nice to live in your world, where it is always the other person who doesn't comprehend, or is unintelligent.

Guest 01-07-2012 12:28 PM
[quote=RichieLion;437398]
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437391)

Sorry if you don't get my humor. Although behind my humor is the truth. I do believe that the more informed the American, the more conservative in political thought he would be. (the key word above is "American"; think about my meaning before jumping to conclusions)

I know what the essence of being an American is. Too many have forgotten what this country represents and now believe that "being their brother's keeper" is now a government mandate and not just a moral ideal.

I can get way more detailed in this conversation if you desire, but you should glean my meaning and my intent from the little I've written.
The truth? Really? If you really beleive that, it explains a lot about your viewpoint, and illustrates your arrogance.

Guest 01-07-2012 12:29 PM
[quote=eweissenbach;437399]
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437395)
No, I'm saying that is what Buggy alluded to in his post I was commenting on. Trouble with comprehension?[/QUOTE]

No, not in this case, at least. It was your editorial comment at the end. Must be nice to live in your world, where it is always the other person who doesn't comprehend, or is unintelligent.
Not everyone has trouble deciphering my thought and intent in my posts. I'm sorry you are.

Guest 01-07-2012 12:48 PM
[quote=RichieLion;437405]
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437399)

Not everyone has trouble deciphering my thought and intent in my posts. I'm sorry you are.
I too am sorry not to be in your wide circle of admirers. Apparently your thought processes are far above my limited level of comprehension.

Guest 01-07-2012 01:09 PM
[quote=eweissenbach;437413]
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437405)

I too am sorry not to be in your wide circle of admirers. Apparently your thought processes are far above my limited level of comprehension.
Wait; I just thought of something. Obviously I hit a nerve with my comment about Democrat voters. Actually, I love that. I'm sorry if you find fault in my description about what constitutes a desirable voter to the Democrat Party, but I call 'em as I see 'em.

I've never passed a pot I didn't want to stir.

(P.S.: You really need to learn how to "quote". The quote of yours above looks like it was said by me. I don't know what you're doing, but you're doing it wrong)

Guest 01-07-2012 01:31 PM
[quote=RichieLion;437421]
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437413)

Wait; I just thought of something. Obviously I hit a nerve with my comment about Democrat voters. Actually, I love that. I'm sorry if you find fault in my description about what constitutes a desirable voter to the Democrat Party, but I call 'em as I see 'em.

I've never passed a pot I didn't want to stir.

(P.S.: You really need to learn how to "quote". The quote of yours above looks like it was said by me. I don't know what you're doing, but you're doing it wrong)
The statement was yours, I don't know why it had my name on it, but that is among many things I need to learn. Yes you hit a nerve with your unintelligent comment about Democrat voters. I have voted for many democrats and many republicans, and have always put a great deal of thought into my votes. I also respect people who have different views, though not when they show disrespect for different views.

Guest 01-07-2012 03:57 PM
Richie, what I said in my post was "Lots and lots of the statements will stay with the candidate even though it may not true. Some is due to the stupidity of the candidate - such as the rock with the N-word on Perry's hunting lodge. Why couldn't that have just been buried or broken up years ago instead of just turned over? Even though Perry had nothing to do with it, that stain will stay with him.

It is a mistake to mention race in a campaign because some will take it as a slur no matter what was said. It is a lose-lose situation.

Same thing goes for gay and lesbian issues. No matter what is said, someone will take offense to it."

These incidents were about the Republican candidates and therefore, the Republican electorate was the target. It was not for the Democrats - but Democrats are not immune from this 30 second sound bite campaigning by any means.

The Republican candidates are aiming for those Republican voters who are shallow and ill-informed - since Democrat voters cannot vote in Republican primaries.

Guest 01-07-2012 04:05 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437198)
I'm not going to defend the long ago newsletters which had Ron Pauls masthead. He needed to know what was in them, and if he didn't that's his tough luck.

Gingrich: "I will go to the NAACP convention and tell the African-American community why they should demand paychecks instead of food stamps." He also said “Young children who are poor ought to learn how to go to work,” he continued. “What I’ve said is, for example, it would be great if inner city schools and poor neighborhood schools actually hired the children to do things. Some of the things they could do is work in the library, work in the front office. Some of them frankly, could be janitorial. Gingrich continued, “this all started when people on the Left laughed about and derided what they call hamburger flipping jobs. I did an entire thing in one of my courses on the number of people whose first job was at McDonald’s who are now very successful multi-millionaires. And my point is, any work that gets you in the habit of working beats no work.”
http://theminorityeye.com/newt-gingr...-p1167-158.htm

Santorum: "I don't want to make black people's lives better by giving them other people's money." "I want to give them the opportunity to go out and earn their money and provide for themselves and their families," he added. "The best way to do that is to get the manufacturing sector of the economy rolling."

(postscript: Santorum's remarks were made while the employment rate for blacks has risen to 16%; 17% among black men and a staggering 41% among black teens; all while President Obama claims "recovery")
http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/...6-percent.html

Santorum: On the subject of gay marriage, he was asked by a student “How you justify your belief based on these morals you have about all men being created equal when two men who want to marry the person that they love ...” “What about three men?” Santorum interjected. “Reason says that if you think it’s OK for two, you have to differentiate with me why it’s not OK for three,” he added. “Let’s just have a discussion about what that means. If she reflects the values that marriage can be for anybody or any group of people, as many as is necessary, any two people or any three or four, marriage really means whatever you want it to mean.”

Anyone with any honesty knows that Santorum was only responding to someone who wants to change the definition on what is marriage. Once you change it for one group aren't you discriminating against other groups who want to enact into law their definition on what constitutes a marriage?
http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/...ve-enough.html

Amazing what putting things in context will do. It all about making you think. I know it's tough, but try it.
RichieLion: Thank you for posting these links better than I could. Some people on this forum think I make this stuff up, even though it's been running on TV 24/7 for weeks and in print. How do these statements help republicans build a wider tent by including African Americans, hispanics and gays and lesbians?

Guest 01-07-2012 04:48 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437512)
RichieLion: Thank you for posting these links better than I could. Some people on this forum think I make this stuff up, even though it's been running on TV 24/7 for weeks and in print. How do these statements help republicans build a wider tent by including African Americans, hispanics and gays and lesbians?
They don't if you're an ignorant American. IMHO

Guest 01-07-2012 04:51 PM
[quote=eweissenbach;437432]
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437421)

The statement was yours, I don't know why it had my name on it, but that is among many things I need to learn. Yes you hit a nerve with your unintelligent comment about Democrat voters. I have voted for many democrats and many republicans, and have always put a great deal of thought into my votes. I also respect people who have different views, though not when they show disrespect for different views.
You're still not posting quotes correctly. All you have to do is click on the "quote button" at the bottom of the quote you want to reference. Then write below that quote. Somehow the way you're attempting to do this you put my name on your quote here.

I don't know what you're doing to post them the way you do.

Guest 01-07-2012 04:54 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437532)
They don't if you're an ignorant American. IMHO
I don't understand. Who's ignorant? The candidates that say these things, the people that vote for them, or the people that don't vote for them? How does saying these things help the republican party?

Guest 01-07-2012 05:14 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437512)
RichieLion: Thank you for posting these links better than I could. Some people on this forum think I make this stuff up, even though it's been running on TV 24/7 for weeks and in print. How do these statements help republicans build a wider tent by including African Americans, hispanics and gays and lesbians?
NOBODY thinks you make anything up......what you do is quote things OUT OF CONTEXT....you try to make folks look bad....that is wrong to do, dont you think ? You take a few quotes OUT OF CONTEXT...no explanation..come on here and call a lot of people racists and other names.....that is just flat out wrong...totally !!!

Guest 01-07-2012 05:18 PM
[quote=eweissenbach;437432]
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437421)

The statement was yours, I don't know why it had my name on it, but that is among many things I need to learn. Yes you hit a nerve with your unintelligent comment about Democrat voters. I have voted for many democrats and many republicans, and have always put a great deal of thought into my votes. I also respect people who have different views, though not when they show disrespect for different views.
:agree:

Guest 01-07-2012 05:20 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437546)
NOBODY thinks you make anything up......what you do is quote things OUT OF CONTEXT....you try to make folks look bad....that is wrong to do, dont you think ? You take a few quotes OUT OF CONTEXT...no explanation..come on here and call a lot of people racists and other names.....that is just flat out wrong...totally !!!
:agree:

Guest 01-07-2012 05:27 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437533)

You're still not posting quotes correctly. All you have to do is click on the "quote button" at the bottom of the quote you want to reference. Then write below that quote. Somehow the way you're attempting to do this you put my name on your quote here.

I don't know what you're doing to post them the way you do.
I don't know either, but you are doing the same thing :undecided:

Guest 01-07-2012 05:29 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437546)
NOBODY thinks you make anything up......what you do is quote things OUT OF CONTEXT....you try to make folks look bad....that is wrong to do, dont you think ? You take a few quotes OUT OF CONTEXT...no explanation..come on here and call a lot of people racists and other names.....that is just flat out wrong...totally !!!
Thanks to RichieLion, you can read the full quotes and decide for yourself. I don't understand how this type of language helps the republican party reach out and be all-inclusive.

Guest 01-07-2012 05:33 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437535)
I don't understand. Who's ignorant? The candidates that say these things, the people that vote for them, or the people that don't vote for them? How does saying these things help the republican party?

How do you feel about President Obama's relationship with a public and known racist based on his remarks...ie, calling him his MENTOR...attending his church for over 20 years and having him officiate at his wedding?

I dont want to discuss the issue....just want to know what you might think based on someone posting on here the Reverends quotes, the Presidents quotes on how he feels about the reverend and then jumping to a conclusion about how the President feels about race just simply based on a few out of context items that you ran across.

Please try to respond to this.

Guest 01-07-2012 05:44 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437551)
I don't know either, but you are doing the same thing :undecided:
That's only because I'm quoting your quotes that you attribute to me.

This one is right because I was able to just quote you.

Guest 01-07-2012 06:35 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437546)
NOBODY thinks you make anything up......what you do is quote things OUT OF CONTEXT....you try to make folks look bad....that is wrong to do, dont you think ? You take a few quotes OUT OF CONTEXT...no explanation..come on here and call a lot of people racists and other names.....that is just flat out wrong...totally !!!
Go to You Tube and you will see exactly what Gingrich said as reported by me.

Guest 01-07-2012 06:42 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437554)
How do you feel about President Obama's relationship with a public and known racist based on his remarks...ie, calling him his MENTOR...attending his church for over 20 years and having him officiate at his wedding?

I dont want to discuss the issue....just want to know what you might think based on someone posting on here the Reverends quotes, the Presidents quotes on how he feels about the reverend and then jumping to a conclusion about how the President feels about race just simply based on a few out of context items that you ran across.

Please try to respond to this.
I have no idea why President Obama did what he did for 20 years. All I know is he got 95% of the African American vote in 2008. I get one vote, you get one vote. The voters will decide in November.

Guest 01-07-2012 07:06 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437592)
I have no idea why President Obama did what he did for 20 years. All I know is he got 95% of the African American vote in 2008. I get one vote, you get one vote. The voters will decide in November.
YOU make no sense whatsoever !!! You dont even get the point...WOW

Guest 01-07-2012 11:49 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 436757)
Really? radical? Is that what you call it? Traditional American values is now radical? Maybe you should keep reading.
Oh c'mon, Richie. President Obama won both the popular vote as well as the electoral vote by a wide majority based on values considerably different than Rick Santorum's. The values cited by Santorum are only supported by a minority of Americans, nowhere near close to the 50%+ needed to elect him POTUS. His positions are a long, long way from being "traditional American values".

Guest 01-08-2012 12:05 AM
i don't agree
 
i don't agree with you, kahuna...i do think the great majority of americans hold the same or similar values as Rick Santorum....we are just bombasted with liberal values in every comedy show, news report, movie, etc so that we don't even notice it any more...but as we look around and see what has become of our society, our morals, our own grandchildren's misguided ideas in some cases, it is time we consider what our own values really mean to us and stand up for them.

Guest 01-08-2012 12:23 AM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437704)
Oh c'mon, Richie. President Obama won both the popular vote as well as the electoral vote by a wide majority based on values considerably different than Rick Santorum's. The values cited by Santorum are only supported by a minority of Americans, nowhere near close to the 50%+ needed to elect him POTUS. His positions are a long, long way from being "traditional American values".
Then you have lost all comprehension of what the true meaning of "American Values" are Kahuna. I'm sorry for that, for you.

Maybe you just think "American Values" change in the same way you probably believe the Constitution is a "living document". When most people think that way, our American way of life is doomed.

Guest 01-08-2012 09:20 AM
I agree 100%, chachacha and RichieLion.

Guest 01-08-2012 10:10 AM
Does ANYBODY believe that today's values represent those the majority of Americans prefer?

We have become so permissive there is almost no such thing as doing wrong.

And if someone does do something wrong the system will not attempt to do anything about it for fear of some retribution coming from ANYWHERE.

The majority is losing it day by day.....and they continue to allow it...hence we have what we have.

btk

Guest 01-08-2012 10:13 AM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437801)
Does ANYBODY believe that today's values represent those the majority of Americans prefer?

We have become so permissive there is almost no such thing as doing wrong.

And if someone does do something wrong the system will not attempt to do anything about it for fear of some retribution coming from ANYWHERE.

The majority is losing it day by day.....and they continue to allow it...hence we have what we have.

btk
While I agree with you btk, I have hope above hope that it can be turned around...Each generation has enabled and pampered and spoiled the next, in the name of tolerance and forgiveness. Accountability has been thrown out the window and the "lack of charactor" snowball continues to roll.

Guest 01-08-2012 01:42 PM
Is it TeaParty jingoism or just general ignorance that the US Constitution is not a living and evolving document?

It lives and evolves with each amendment that is added and this has been done 27 times over 200+ years.

The writers of the Constitution did not have all the answers to future issues so the amendment process is used to add on (evolve) to the Constitution.

If it were not living and evolving, we would still have slavery in the USA and women could not vote. Is that the TeaParty line?

Guest 01-08-2012 02:21 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437885)
Is it TeaParty crap or just general ignorance that the US Constitution is not a living and evolving document?

It lives and evolves with each amendment that is added and this has been done 27 times over 200+ years.

The writers of the Constitution did not have all the answers to future issues so the amendment process is used to add on (evolve) to the Constitution.

If it were not living and evolving, we would still have slavery in the USA and women could not vote. Is that the TeaParty line?
Some tea partiers have not evolved since that incident in Boston in 1773.

Guest 01-08-2012 05:01 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437885)
Is it TeaParty jingoism or just general ignorance that the US Constitution is not a living and evolving document?

It lives and evolves with each amendment that is added and this has been done 27 times over 200+ years.

The writers of the Constitution did not have all the answers to future issues so the amendment process is used to add on (evolve) to the Constitution.

If it were not living and evolving, we would still have slavery in the USA and women could not vote. Is that the TeaParty line?
Lord help me Jesus. I just agreed with Buggy.

Guest 01-08-2012 05:20 PM
Quote:
Posted by Guest (Post 437885)
Is it TeaParty jingoism or just general ignorance that the US Constitution is not a living and evolving document?

It lives and evolves with each amendment that is added and this has been done 27 times over 200+ years.

The writers of the Constitution did not have all the answers to future issues so the amendment process is used to add on (evolve) to the Constitution.

If it were not living and evolving, we would still have slavery in the USA and women could not vote. Is that the TeaParty line?
That's not what people mean when the term "living document" is spoken. It's now taken by leftists to mean that the Constitution can be interpreted differently according to new ideas. Leftists now use the courts to reinterpret what the founders words might be if the founders lived today and use liberal courts to enforce this new interpretation.

This is why the Amendment process is all but obsolete in our country. If only the Constitution was changed with the Amendment process we wouldn't be having these arguments......if only.

Guest 01-08-2012 06:02 PM
Richie, my good drinking buddy, your viewpoint of a living and evolving Constitution is certainly your viewpoint - however, it is definitely not what the term means. You are welcome to take the uber-conservative view to say a living constitutution means only interpretation by a court. However, just saying so does not make it so. We have to look at what is really meant by the term. The amendment process is what makes the Constitution a living and evolving document.

However, once again, it is always in the conservative view as to whose ox is being gored. The Republicans were jumping right in to have a federal court declare The Affordable Health Care Act unconstitutional. Isn't that interpreting the Constitution to your own way? I thought it was a liberal thing to do according to your post. "Leftists now use the courts to reinterpret what the founders words might be if the founders lived today and use liberal courts to enforce this new interpretation."

That, however once again, is not the meaning of the term. As we both know, the amendment process is a long process and takes sometimes years to do. That is why we have only 27 amendments in over 200 years.

The Republicans now want to add more amendments to trump states rights. A constitutional amendment to define marriage between one man and one woman would take away the state rights of each state. The "marriages" that are in place now would be rendered null and void according to Santorum. WRONG on two counts. It would be a prime example of an ex post facto law and trampling on the 10th Amendment.

You planning to be at the watering hole tomorrow night?


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