Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

You make some very very valid points VILLAGEKAHUNA. I do not endorse Sen McCain however in some fashion, somebody someday will need to explain to me how I can support a community organizer who has ties to very questionable folks should be my President based on oratory skills.
When that is done, I can then accept Sen Obama.

I hope that does not come across as negative nor disrespectful. It is how I feel honestly and sincerely and I tried to state it as clearly as possible. I raise this question and folks say it is no cause for concern but cannot rebut nor deny what I say, and I submit that I can never recall a candidate for President of this country with such ties to radical groups and people.

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

Bucco, I used to be "tied" to the John Birch Society. I'm not tied to them any longer. We evolve. That's what has kept many species alive.
Are you the same person you were in your thirties? If you are, you haven't grown much.
(I do not mean you particularly. I am speaking in generalities.) :-*

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

Bucco, I used to be "tied" to the John Birch Society. I'm not tied to them any longer. We evolve. That's what has kept many species alive.
Are you the same person you were in your thirties? If you are, you haven't grown much.
(I do not mean you particularly. I am speaking in generalities.)
__________________________________________________ ________

Not sure what you are implying with this post..I have grown but would ask that you at least read about his associates and mentors and tell me that you are comfortable with that background ! I am not talking race nor religion but basic idealogy he has been taught in his church, in his jobs.

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

Just want to add...I doubt if you will do as I suggested and read about the background, but just want to make clear...this excludes those chain letter emails and hate sites on the net. Just read FACTS....his own words as to who formed his life...not the recent ones where he backed off but just read and keep it to facts and not the stuff folks make up and circulate.

Re: In The End
 

Personally, I'm pleased that a "Governor" is on the ticket, as opposed to another Senator. I wouldn't have cared which governor, but without one, the Republican ticket would have been another mirror of the Democratic - a couple of guys from the "100 Club." Governors at least have to be executives - CEOs of a state, actually responsible for public administration - delivering services, spending money, and satisfying "customers." Senators see life from afar, never having any real responsibility (who remembers who voted or abstained from what bill?).

If Sen. Biden was to balance Sen. Obama's lack of foreign policy experience, Gov. Palin balances Sen. McCain's lack of public administration experience. Who provides the public administration experience on the Democratic ticket?

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

We have just spent the last 8 years with a former "governor". We don't need another 4. .

Palin claims she stood up to the good old boys network. Seems strange since she warmly embraced the endorsement of Alaska senator Ted Stevens who is currently under federal indictment. Strangely, that endorsement video was recently pulled from Palin's web site but can easily be found on You Tube. You can watch her beaming face as she stands next to Stevens while he babbles on.

She's against stem cell research and for teaching creationism in public schools. So McCain is pandering to the evangelicals and waiting for that all important support from the wacko Dobson.

This choice makes my decision a lot easier.

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

If "pandering to evangelicals" is not supporting the killing of innocents for the convenience of others, then I must be an evangelilcal and didn't know it.

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

OMG, Oama no experience. Isn't he at the top of the ticket. Isn't the lady from Alaska the V.P. choice. Lot's to think about.

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

If John McCain is trying to tap into to the 18 million Hillary voters.....this really won't cut it. She is hardly a Hillary substitute.

Still sitting on the sideline....

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

Villages Kahuna, I cannot believe you're letting something as insignificant as a candidate's judgement affect your decision. You should base your decision on things which have no meaning or significance to anything. How dare you be so narrow minded! ;D ;D

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

It REALLY does expose the poor judgement that McCain does have in deciding REALLY important matters, such as picking a Vice President and other important policy matters that Obama made the case for in his acceptance speech the other night. As a woman I am insulted & offended by McCain's patronizing and manipulating of the American women,Christians,Union members,etc. to think that the only reason he picked Sarah Palin was to appeal to these groups in order to get them to vote for him. What if his Melanoma came back and killed him, then we would have a "hockey Mom,former PTA Mom,mayor of a town in Alaska of 7000 and Gov.for a yr and a half, as a President????? ??? I want to know more about her education and background like all the other candidates and VP picks!

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

Gov.for a yr and a half, as a President?? I want to know more about her education and background like all the other candidates and VP picks!
__________________________________________________ ______

I agree with this statement and would love to see an open discussion of Sen Obama's background and training and hopefully despite the best efforts of many to stop it we will have it.

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

Original post as this, but if we just change the words to the italics....

OMG! McCain the Democratic Party is choosing Gov. of Alaska the junior Senator from Illinois (just two years)(just three years) for V.P. President Really? And if I may follow up. Really? Even the Republicans many Democrats are reeling. Inexperience. Unknown. Under investigation accepts personal financial favors from big business.
Could step in as be our President? :yikes:

hmmm, now let me see. Really? Well, bad judgment shows through. Quite frankly, I'm speechless and elated. This insures Obama McCain an easy win. Wow!

I knew McCain's the Democratic Party's true colors would show through, but I didn't think it would be this soon.
Sarah Palin Barack Obama? Really?


The window views both ways......

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

STEVEZ, AS THIS IS MY LAST POST IN POLITICAL FOR THE TIME BEING, I THINK IT'S A CHEAP SHOT TO CHANGE MY WORDS.

There's One Big Difference, Steve
 

A huge difference, really.

Sarah Palin was appointed by someone, either John McCain, the DNC, or a group of conservative activists. But how she got to where she is pales in importance to the possible result of her candidacy.

Barack Obama reached his position as the Democratic candidate for President after a year-long primary over the entire United States and other protectorates who voted in the primaries. He ran against all that chose to compete for the presidential nomination, a total of ten candidates, I believe. Many of those candidates had extensive experience in government and/or business. He traveled to all those places, communicated his platform to the electorate, debated all the candidates, some of them several times. He even traveled outside the U.S., where the possibility of his election here was enthusiastically met with crowds numbered in the hundreds of thousands in many places. It was the American electorate who selected Barack Obama as one of the candidates for President. They considered his qualifications and experience, evaluated his campaign platform, and his ability to lead and motivate. After all that, he WON the nomination in free and fair elections in which almost one-third of the entire U.S. population chose to vote. He is not an appointee.

You can play around with language and italics as you please. But the fact remains that two candidates could ultimately wind up as President of the United States, under different circumstances, of course. One reached that position as the result of convincing a majority of voters of his qualifications, judgement, platform and ability to lead. The other is a complete unknown who many believe was appointed either as a political expediency or to satisfy the demands of conservative political special interests.

For me--I'll take the winner of the free and fair competition who has already demonstrated his ability to lead and motivate large numbers of Americans over the period of a long campaign. I'll take a pass on the chance that a totally unknown candidate, one who is clearly and admittedly unqualified to assume the position of leader of the free world, could unexpectedly land in the oval office.

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

kahuna

The fact is 2 candidates won the nomination for President and two were appointed. Remember it's McCain-Obama not Palin- Obama.So that would be FOUR candidates who could ultimatly end up as president not Two.
Palin has more executive experience than Obama or Biden wether you like it or not Benj

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

A counter point for a few of the above comments regarding Palin's "experience" to be VP or I think it was even stated "OMG President"......

Once again I do not understand the measuring stick. How does a Senator with 147 days under his belt measure better? Hasn't history shown that Senators do not have a track record for being electable to the Presidency...once or twice in the past 50 years!!!!

First of all most Senators are lawyers, which absolutely sets them apart from everybody else on the planet. Secondly however, most importantly they are full blooded, professional, what's in it for ME first POLITICIANS. Either of these two credentials is enough to make one hesitate about their ability to manage ANYTHING. It is not at all what their training/experience has been about.

Using the fact that Bush was a governor has absolutely nothing to do with one person VS another except to be humorous or taking a partisan cheap shot.

As for Palin not being a "...Hillary replacement..." thank GOD we agree on that one. See the above...she is a lawyer....she is a Senator....and some would say she has the additional distinction/burden of being a Clinton. Nope I don't think anybody views Palin as a replacement for HC. Will Palin pull some of the HC supporters? Of course she will. That is a statistical certainty that has nothing to do with politics.

While a Governor is still obliged to play politics (doesn't everybody to one degree or another?), they also have to be more closely accountable to the people. A Senator doesn't care. A Governor will most of the time be doing what is good for their state. A Senator does not think the same about the USA. A governor can't work just part time and get the job done. Saying a Senator has a part time job is being polite about how much time they do not spend on the job.

Like y'all with prior posts above, you are entitled to your thoughts and opinions, these are mine. I still like the good old criteria I used when hiring people...don't tell me what school they went to...don't tell me all the clubs they belong to....tell me what their last boss said they do better than most...tell me what their employees liked most about them...least about them...tell me why this person is THE VERY BEST CANDIDATE FOR THE JOB! No religion....no politics...no sexual preference...

Ooooops I forgot...... I was talking about criteria for hiring people to be held accountable
for what they did AND did not do :joke:

BTK ;D

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

Chelsea,
Am not sure why you are so upset. It was just an example that the same questions and comments could be applied for two people.

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

Wait a minute, You mean she is not related to MICHAEL PALIN of the Monty python flying circus ??????? Thats very disappointing but it really doesn't matter ....
I'm going to vote for her anyway , She's got more guts than Obama and Biden put together...and a helleva lot more intelect ..........
Yes I'm voting for a war hero and America's answer to Maggie Thatcher...

No time for draft dodgers fumar you heard it here first...........

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

I am amazed at the continual references to the fact that Ms. Palin was the runner-up as Miss Alaska. Surely being good looking and a mother doesn't disqualify you from running for political office.

Ms. Palin is new, believes in change, has minimal political experience, and is running for VP. Mr. Obama is new, believes in change, has minimal political experience, and is running for the most important position in the world. Hmmmm.

Spin
 

I can't believe the spin being put on this situation. One candidate who is accused of not having enough experience explained his plans and won his nomination in a year-long campaign against nine other candidates, getting the vote of more than 10% of Americans.

The other candidate with little or no experience was appointed and is only now beginning to let Americans "see who she is".

Yet if you listen to the conservative spinmeisters, you would think that the appointed candidate is a newly-discovered Joan of Arc. Is her position on her devoutness, right-to-life, gay rights and gun control all it takes to satisfy folks that she could assume the presidency if required?

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

Kahuna, I agree. But the digging into her will go on. Just this morning I heard one journalist refer to her as "The Perfect Storm" With the investigation of her by her home state and other things yet to come out that they are investigating.

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

Barefoot:
I agree with you on this one. This on is a no brainer.. :bigthumbsup: :bigthumbsup:

Re: Spin
 

When you refer to spin, have you considered the spin that the Obama folks are putting on this? First and foremost, as barefoot points out, there is a HUGE difference between the requisite experience expected of a President, the leader of the free world, and the VP. Secondly, Obama's year and a half of campaigning didn't garner him one iota increase in "experience". The only thing it provided was a vetting in front of the American people. So, from an experience perspective, Obama is on roughly the same level as Palin - just that Palin is not stepping into the top job.

During Obama's vetting, I saw enough things in him in terms of his positions and judgement to be convinced that I don't want to see him as president. Other's saw him in a different light and agree with his positions (at least I hope it is his positions that they agree with and not just his ability to read a teleprompter in a very dramatic way.) Now we can vote on whether Obama's experience, positions and judgement make him more suitable for president than McCain, judged on the same attributes.

But, with respect to Palin's experience for the VP role, here is an intellectual honesty question: It was widely speculated that Tim Kaine was on Obama's short list for VP. Here is a candidate whose experience is very similar to Palin's (mayor then governor for the exact amount of time). The pundits and many Dems were extolling what a great pick he would be - not because of his knowledge or experience, but because he might deliver Virginia with all of its electoral votes to Obama. Had he been chosen, would anyone now critical of Palin really had made the same accusations of inexperience and political pandering against Kaine that they are against Palin? I think you know the answer to this one.

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

This conversation is extremely funny. Obama is so unqualified to be President that in order for supporters to fight for him, they must compare him to a VP pick rather than the qualified man he is running against.
Keep it up, you make Obama's detractor's points perfectly.
Obama supporters should check up on the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, and then tell the rest of us how throwing away $110,000,000 dollars meant to improve the Chicago school system reflects well on his leadership and judgement.

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

All this focus on Palin will soon be gone and the main focus will then be on McCain and his 1st important decision and that is on not choosing who really wanted as VP (Joe Lieberman) and letting a former big lobbyist who now is the head of McCain's campaign bully him into picking Palin. This should tell the American public the real truth about McCain.And I hope Obama/Biden make this the issue when the debates start and not fall into the trap that the Republicans would love to happen and that is by arguing that Palin is not qualified (which is true) but they (Obama/Biden) need to expound on the fact that McCain is NOT qualified to be President based on the way he chose his VP pick,and that is he can be bought by others and he isn't the maverick he claims he is (alot of false hype for yrs on that issue,I should say) anyway this will be a major issue I think.

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

That's exactly right Bare.....it is what makes the choice so difficult this election.

And remember when we judge Ms. Palin for being "only" a governor......Jimmy Carter made the leap from Governor of Georgia to President.

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

I think the question that should be asked is "Was she the most qualified woman?" The answer is patently no.

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

Interesting article on McCain's choice of Governor Palin. http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/08/...ca/01palin.php

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

Tal, this quote from your article and McCain's book is interesting.
"At the very least, the process reflects McCain's history of making fast, instinctive and sometimes risky decisions. "I make them as quickly as I can, quicker than the other fellow, if I can," McCain wrote, with his top adviser Mark Salter, in his 2002 book, "Worth the Fighting For." "Often my haste is a mistake, but I live with the consequences without complaint."

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

Samhass,

No, the question is, is she the most qualified person that extols the image of change, reform and tenacity that McCain wants in his presidency. The answer to that is an unqualified "yes".

Contrast that to Obama's pick. Obama's primary message during his campaign was "change", yet what was his first major decision as the nominee? Picking a VP candidate who has been around Washington since Obama was a teenager.

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

chelsea,

Just wondering ... are you as critical of Joe Biden abandoning his two young sons who just lost their mother and sibling in a car accident? Does his decision to continue as a senator, working many hours away from his kids with no parent back home to provide support make you question his fathering like you seem to question Palin's mothering (who has a supportive husband at hand)? Or, just perhaps do you have a double standard (different rules for men than women; or different rules for Republicans than Democrats)?
Something to think about.

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

Chels, as a fence sitter at this point, I think I heard a collective crotch-grabbing noise when Palin was announced from all the men who are terrified of having a women in the position of president or vice president. Perhaps pandering is the fact that Barrack Obama is the DNC presidential candidate rather than Hillary Clinton. I have been fact gathering and watching the election process since day one and the main theme I got from anti-Clinton voters was, "I can't stand that woman"! When I delicately questioned what was the policy or policies promoted by Hillary they found most offensive, hoping to garner info I didn't have, they could provide no basis for their dislike. They just didn't like her! I'm sure many of us watched Hillary speak at the DNC and were extremely impressed by this woman and what she stands for. Why isn't she the presidential candidate? It is said that her detractors when she took her senatorial seat admire her now. I even heard on one of the programs that her haircut was too short and she wore pantsuits, our media at work! Obama's past has some unsavory details that are not being promoted as are Palin's details. Enough of that junk! From my viewpoint, their experience is neck-in-neck. I don't want to hear anymore bull from the press so they can promote their candidates. I want to see Obama and McCain debating in town meetings and broadcasted public forums, then I can see the candidates through my eyes. The slanted press has election day to place their vote, they need to give us an unbiased report and nothing more about our candidates. I don't think the world will see a woman in any presidential or vice presidential office in the next fifty years. Sexism is a bigger problem at this point than racism, IMHO. Now should I post this or read it once more and delete.... Guess I'm only going round once here goes.... :dontknow:

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

NJBlue I've wondered the same thing.

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

Any actual proof to this (a Keith Olberman rant doesn't count) or is this whole thing something you originated after too many adult beverages?

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

Let's stop splitting hairs and face the fact that NONE of the candidates are truly "qualified" to be president.

The folks that are really qualified will never run because of the very media hounding and harassment that is being undertaken now.

IMHO the true measure of a good manager is how they can assemble and manage input from all sources to make a good decision. No one is going to have the requisite experience in all the fields a president is called upon to pass judgment on. It is his/her job to get the very best input from advisers and make a cogent decision based on that.

The truth is that Palin is the only candidate that has had to make decisions that have any direct effect on anything. I don't consider legislators as managers, nor do I consider community "leaders" in radical organizations as the type of people we need to be managing the country's affairs.


It's going to be interesting to watch!

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

First of all, I don't drink "adult beverages" and this whole thing is not something I originated but is all over the cable news networks today. ;D

Gotta Respond To A Really Cheap Shot
 

The accusation that Joe Biden "abandoned his two young sons after the death of his wife" by continuing his candidacy for the Senate is a really cheap shot. If the author has read anything about Biden, he would know that he commuted four hours almost every night that he had to be in Washington to be home with his young sons and be there in the morning to have breakfast and take them to school. I have friends that have known Biden personally for many years. They say if there was ever an example of a man who successfully mixed career and parenthood, it is Joe Biden.

If there was ever a fine example of parenting by anyone--businessperson or politician--it's Joe Biden.

Vote for whomever you want to, but back off attacking the character of a fine man.

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

I have to agree with Kahuna, although I don't know him (Biden). - Biden contemplated suicide shortly after losing his wife and daughter in an auto accident, but realized he would be abandoning his sons and that is what kept him going. He has been in Washington a lot of years, but nights were spent in Delaware. How could anyone say he abandoned his sons who has ever read anything about him?

Re: Sarah Palin? Really?
 

The accusation that Joe Biden "abandoned his two young sons after the death of his wife" by continuing his candidacy for the Senate is a really cheap shot.
__________________________________________________ _________
I agree with you and since you never thought to mention it, the accusation about Gov Palin passing her daughters baby off as hers is sort of cheap as well...guess you forgot that :)