:bowdown::agree:

How to keep their slimy government hands off our health care?

BOOMER..thanks for the link and back to you in a minute :)

To those who are always saying that political is like a deep dark hole, this thread is a good example of folks sharing views, hard held....many with personal stories..many from the profession and folks supplying links that can help understand issues that are complex such as this one.

Now BOOMER...fantastic link, at least for me...I became perhaps not informed but at least more than I knew before and found my feelings changing a bit, but a FANTASTIC LINK !!!

I have a question after listening to the link for those who seem to know more about this than I and I hope it is not stupid...

With all the negotiations that goes on today between hospitals and insurance companies to set the rates on certain procedures, AND with the large gap in the low and high that exist..meaning it can cost from $ to $$$$$$$ depending on the hospital....IF there is some semblance of healthcare offered in the package that was referred to as a compromise OR even as the President campaigned on......WOULD THERE NOT BE A LARGE NUMBER OF HOSPITALS (and Doctors) THAT ARE NOW ON THE TOP END OF THE LIST THAT WOULD EITHER NEED TO CUTBACK ON SERVICES OR JUST CLOSE ?

I hope that question makes sense ?

Bucco,

I'm glad you liked the link. But I checked it just now and it had changed to the next day's show. You have to go to "past shows" now and bring up Wednesday, March 11, and there you can still find the show about insurance.

The reason I get involved in discussions like this one is not because I want socialized medicine. It is because I want some kind of good plan made available for people to BUY into at an affordable cost. The plan that Congress has comes to mind.

I have friends who continue to work past the time they should because they cannot afford or find health insurance to cover them until Medicare. There are those who may have access to retiree health care under their employer but the cost of covering a spouse becomes so nuts that they just have to keep on working until at least one of the couple gets to Medicare.

And something else that is real killer, figuratively and possibly literally, is that there are so many out there who are paying through the nose for relatively worthless plans that find a way to really mess with them if they should become seriously ill. (An example of that is in the first part of the show I linked.) And then there are those pre-existing conditions that make individual plans pretty impossible to find or afford.

Mr. B and I are covered through our former employers for now. It costs us more each year for our end. But the coverage is there under well-known group plans. But I cannot insulate myself from what I see happening around me.

My guess is that those who so vehemently oppose any discussion of making changes are themselves covered by excellent plans and perhaps have no idea what hard working people around them face when trying to find coverage. Especially those who want to retire but cannot because they cannot risk loss of insurance because they know they may not be able to find coverage they can afford or find coverage--period.

Some friends who own a small business, just two of them, were facing horrendous annual cost for a plan several years ago. And that was a while back. I cannot imagine what it must be now. The cost was based upon one of the owners being diabetic. Without access to big group plans, people are just getting trampled with costs while insurance companies rake it in for their CEO's.

So anyway, I just want to see middle ground. Make a plan (maybe give a choice for catastrophic coverage only) available for people to buy into. One giant group plan. Available. Affordable. Portable. TO BUY INTO. By choice.

We have to solve this or business as usual in health care will hamstring our economy.

Here's the link again to Wednesday's show on NPR.

http://www.npr.org/templates/rundown...Date=3-11-2009

And I am sorry I cannot answer your question, Bucco. But I am glad you saw the light I left on.

Boomer

Boom, you know I never disagree with you nor question your information, and I really do neither now. It's just that I often hear people raving about extravagant retirement benefits and health care that congress gets and it irks me --- not the supposed perks but the raving. Congressmen and Senators have the exact same health care benefits as every other federal employee, be they Secretary of the Interior or a typist at the local Social Security Office. That is The Federal Employees Health Benefits (FEHB) Program. http://www.opm.gov/insure/health/

No doubt, this is a good program. My premiums (& the congressman's) are very reasonable and the coverage is pretty good -- our dental options suck and drug benefits vary. By comparison, most unions and many private companies are much cheaper. One big benefit we have is that if we've been in the program for the last 5 years before retirement, we can stay in the program in retirement.

Yes, the government pays a large portion of our premiums, but like the Civil Service Retirement Plan, the FEHB helped compensate some of those minuscule cost-of-living adjustments and often miserable working conditions. Should the FEHB be open to the public? In my opinion, not at the cost we pay. That would just be a kick in the testicles of longtime feds. However, as part of an overall reform, could the gov't create an FEHB-type program for the un- and under-insured? Most definitely. The problem for so many people is that they do not have a group available for health insurance. Under this new system, the gov't could create a massive insurable group that would likely attract a large number of insurers. Prices would naturally be lower than for the individual trying to get a solo policy. And whether the gov't should pay part of those premiums and how much ---- who knows?









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It sounds like when you are old enough to be eligible for Medicare that you are going to opt out and go the non-gov't route (everyone's perfect right assuming they have the reources). There are physicians now who have likewise opted out of ALL ins plans, including all gov't plans... it's called botique medicine. CASH ONLY.

It is the inevitable fact of life that there historically
 

been, still is and will always be a function of the haves and have nots....was, is and will always be the cold reality of economics....here as in the rest of the world.

Is this a surprise to anybody?

BTK

Munc!

I am joyously spinning around in my new desk chair! Yes! Did you see that sentence of yours that I put in red! Too often I feel like I am speaking some bizarre tribal clicking language when I start talking about middle ground.

Why are there so few people who can see that a big part of the problem is the lack of access, even for people who are ready, willing, and able to pay. And then there are so many who, if they can see it, they just think, "Who gives a rat's behind. I got mine." It is way too easy for politicians to push the same old, same old button of socialized medicine, get the knee-jerk reaction they are looking for, and then just sit back and do nothing.

And I do see what you mean about the compensation in benefits to federal employees. It's the thing about giving up something to get something. Like contract negotiations. Federal employees were giving it up all along in their careers to get those benefits so it would not make economic sense for others to be able to buy in at the cost of someone who had worked all those years. I understand. Good point, Munc.

Like I keep saying, the people I know are not looking for a free ride. The people I know just want to be able to buy a "ticket to ride." But good groups are not available out there for so many. And to heap insult upon injury, if they can find a plan, they so often do not get what they pay for.

Anyway, I very much like what you said here. Hey, I think a big part of the problem is now solved. Do you still have any DC phone numbers so we can call up there and let them know?

Oh and I am so happy to see that you never disagree with me or question me. You have no idea how relieved I am to know that. Oh, Munc, I sure would never, ever want to try to play Jane Curtain to your Dan Aykroyd.

Boomer

Do you really want the fed's running our healthcare? What a mess.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090317/...mulus_what_now

And so the conditioning begins....how much for
 

universal health care?? Oh I dunno one or two trillion should get us started.....STARTED!!!!

Read this for another hint....I just hope the presses can run as fast as it is being spent:

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090317/D97023500.html

I now believe he doesn't care if he is a one term POTUS......there is no plan....just helter skelter...up...ok....no down....ok....no sideways...uh ok!
How about another trillion...sure!!

BTK

Played golf today at Heron in the friendly Men's 9-holers. One of my partners was a Canadian. I asked him if he was satisfied with his healthcare. Answer: YES!.

no, I prefer insurance companies.... like AIG.

Step back for a second and think. In this the greatest nation on the planet, why does the quality of your health care depend on who you work for or how much money you make? Just on an objective basis.

That being said, I've always had geat health care through HMO's or private insurance through my employers. Now that I'm self-employed, in addition to having to pay 1 1/2 times my scoial security, my health care, if I could afford it, is not tax-deductible. There are no real "group" plans for individuals.

At more than $600 month, my insurance has a $5,000 deductible, handles only catastrophic, and has no Rx benefits. I had to join Wahlgreen's program for that. That's the capitalist system for you! Overpriced & based solely on profit. It isn't even availbale for me! My mom's Medicare is far more impressive!

Like AIG, some things are just too big to allow a monopoly by some private, for- profit interests. Paranoia about government doesbn't justify having none at all! Medicare and Social Security are very well-run programs. Paranoia about the government always being out to "get" you goes against the very reason we formed this nation. The Articles of Confededration failed, so we created a stronger document and government. Modern times and situations require that we have enough government to keep this country going. If not, the whole Tennessee Valley would be running on kerosene, you would be driving unsafe cars on two lane dirt roads since there'd be no interstates or highways, your house would burn down for lack of a fire department, and your parents might've starved during the dust bowl and the Depression. Without the "Feds" AIG decided to make unregulated dangerous swaps without proper collateral- something that can't happen to regular savings banks becasue the are regulated- and backed- by the FEDeral Deposit Insurance Corporation.

What you say sounds good in theory but you are leaving out the part where SS and Medicare are for the most part totally bankrupt and are shrinking by the year. After they raise the age limit a few more times you'll have paid into the system your whole life and may never get a chance to even collect.

You also leave out the countries like the UK and others that do have socialized health care that are also going bankrupt, rationing care and cutting back on benefits and services. Not to mention the overall quality of care is horrible.

Notice when someone is in serious trouble they always fly them here? There are already news stories going around that if Leam Neeson's wife got injured here in the USA she would have never died. She couldn't get the care she needed so they flew her here but by then it was too late.

Our private health care system can be fixed and left private but yet again most of the problems are caused by the government and now we're told the only answer is from government.

TORT reform has never ever been addressed by the government. One of the reasons for high health care costs is malpractice and frivolous law suits. Ask your doctor or hospital how much of your bill goes to their insurance? Oh, by the way, a lot of politicians and their buds are lawyers who make fortunes from health care lawsuits.

The list goes on and on an one. Our health care isn't broke, it's the government that's broke.

Taxes
 

You should also ask him if he is satisfied with his taxes?