The Solipsistic Left v The First Amendment

The Solipsistic Left v The First Amendment

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The Solipsistic Left v The First Amendment
  #1  
Old 08-27-2017, 05:13 AM
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Default The Solipsistic Left v The First Amendment

"There are certain harms that are non-actionable, offense is one of them. If I say something that you find is duly offensive, you may protest, you may speak, but what you may not do is to sue me in order to silence me or get compensation from me.

Everybody offends everybody a large fraction of the time.

Those who advocate controlling speech tend to want only their sense of what's offensive to count and nobody else.

Yet the fundamental tenet of classical free speech law is that the rules ought to be "viewpoint neutral". Nobody can use force against nobody, regardless of their viewpoint; but anybody can express his view, irrespective of how offensive everybody else will want to regard it.

Even more complicating, controversial speech often isn't conducted between two people alone but is shouted from the soapbox. How much offense is required before government pulls the plug?

People now have every motivation to ratchet up their level of indignation in order to say, "Look you really hurt me." As a result you make racial, ethnic, religious and social sensibilities an art form.

One recent technique of of doing so is called microaggression. At which point can nobody talk? if you drop the "micro" and keep the aggression then, since you aggressed against me I can now use force against you in self-defense.

This is the part of the modern left wing First Amendment
law which holds that anything you say that offends me is a form of violence to which I can respond with by use of force."

Richard A. Epstein
Professor University of Chicago/
New York University
One of the world's foremost legal academics
America's leading intellectual Libertarian ( he defines himself as "classical liberal)
WSJ August26-27-17

Personal Best Regard

  #2  
Old 08-27-2017, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Guest
"There are certain harms that are non-actionable, offense is one of them. If I say something that you find is duly offensive, you may protest, you may speak, but what you may not do is to sue me in order to silence me or get compensation from me.

Everybody offends everybody a large fraction of the time.

Those who advocate controlling speech tend to want only their sense of what's offensive to count and nobody else.

Yet the fundamental tenet of classical free speech law is that the rules ought to be "viewpoint neutral". Nobody can use force against nobody, regardless of their viewpoint; but anybody can express his view, irrespective of how offensive everybody else will want to regard it.

Even more complicating, controversial speech often isn't conducted between two people alone but is shouted from the soapbox. How much offense is required before government pulls the plug?

People now have every motivation to ratchet up their level of indignation in order to say, "Look you really hurt me." As a result you make racial, ethnic, religious and social sensibilities an art form.

One recent technique of of doing so is called microaggression. At which point can nobody talk? if you drop the "micro" and keep the aggression then, since you aggressed against me I can now use force against you in self-defense.

This is the part of the modern left wing First Amendment
law which holds that anything you say that offends me is a form of violence to which I can respond with by use of force."

Richard A. Epstein
Professor University of Chicago/
New York University
One of the world's foremost legal academics
America's leading intellectual Libertarian ( he defines himself as "classical liberal)
WSJ August26-27-17

Personal Best Regard
Interesting...
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  #3  
Old 08-27-2017, 11:29 AM
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Interesting...
This was posted as a tutorial for some of our progressive friends on this forum. Many conservative posters essentially have expressed the same thoughts BUT here we have an eminent intellectual the best of the best on this subject explain the workings, the why and the consequences of tampering with First Amendment rights.

I was taken with two of his points. 1) If everyone took umbrage about being offended then how does anyone speak and if we don't communicate how do we move forward

2) In regard to how much offense it would take to have government pull the plug on free speech ( can you spell totalitarianism.)

This nation's most important quality is the right to free speech. It is what made us the greatest nation on earth, ever.

Personal Best Regards:
  #4  
Old 08-27-2017, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Guest
This was posted as a tutorial for some of our progressive friends on this forum. Many conservative posters essentially have expressed the same thoughts BUT here we have an eminent intellectual the best of the best on this subject explain the workings, the why and the consequences of tampering with First Amendment rights.

I was taken with two of his points. 1) If everyone took umbrage about being offended then how does anyone speak and if we don't communicate how do we move forward

2) In regard to how much offense it would take to have government pull the plug on free speech ( can you spell totalitarianism.)

This nation's most important quality is the right to free speech. It is what made us the greatest nation on earth, ever.

Personal Best Regards:

  #5  
Old 08-27-2017, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest
This was posted as a tutorial for some of our progressive friends on this forum. Many conservative posters essentially have expressed the same thoughts BUT here we have an eminent intellectual the best of the best on this subject explain the workings, the why and the consequences of tampering with First Amendment rights.

I was taken with two of his points. 1) If everyone took umbrage about being offended then how does anyone speak and if we don't communicate how do we move forward

2) In regard to how much offense it would take to have government pull the plug on free speech ( can you spell totalitarianism.)

This nation's most important quality is the right to free speech. It is what made us the greatest nation on earth, ever.

Personal Best Regards:
Free speech is DEAD. It's WHY we WERE the greatest nation on earth...now we're down around #25. We REFUSE the accept the facts and therefore carry 20% dead weight in everything we do.

They keep saying: "There aren't enough American engineers...we have to bring them in". Yes...BECAUSE we're down to a population that's only 25% white men. We're HALF minorities and they can't do it.
So Who, What,Where And When
  #6  
Old 08-27-2017, 12:30 PM
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Default So Who, What,Where And When

What I found to be also fascinating is that the author, Richard A. Epstein ( Libertarian ) describes himself as a "classical liberal"
That is indeed a subtle remark.

What he is saying is that the classic liberal philosophy has morphed into something else.

What he is saying is that liberals once believe and would defend First Amendment rights to free expression.

So who, what ,where and when was the Democratic liberal party hijacked?

I have my views but I am more interested in hearing others


Personal Best Regards:
  #7  
Old 08-27-2017, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Guest
What I found to be also fascinating is that the author, Richard A. Epstein ( Libertarian ) describes himself as a "classical liberal"
That is indeed a subtle remark.

What he is saying is that the classic liberal philosophy has morphed into something else.

What he is saying is that liberals once believe and would defend First Amendment rights to free expression.

So who, what ,where and when was the Democratic liberal party hijacked?

I have my views but I am more interested in hearing others


Personal Best Regards:
It was hijacked in the 1960s...when they started pushing for woman/minority representation. It's been down hill ever since.
Responses v Reviews
  #8  
Old 08-27-2017, 02:31 PM
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Default Responses v Reviews

The silence from the left concerning this thread (subject matter) is both deafening and telling. I suspect the reason is progressives don't know how to fit in their Trump bashing into this topic


So to my conservative friends "How do you help relieve a progressive from exhibiting Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS) ? speak to the legal and practical reasons for First Amendment rights.

Personal Best Regards:
My Opinion.
  #9  
Old 08-27-2017, 03:28 PM
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Post My Opinion.

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Originally Posted by Guest
Rubicon

What I found to be also fascinating is that the author, Richard A. Epstein ( Libertarian ) describes himself as a "classical liberal"
That is indeed a subtle remark.

What he is saying is that the classic liberal philosophy has morphed into something else.

What he is saying is that liberals once believe and would defend First Amendment rights to free expression.

So who, what ,where and when was the Democratic liberal party hijacked?

I have my views but I am more interested in hearing others


Personal Best Regards:
The Democrat Party hijacking by the ultra-Liberals dates from the 1960s. The transition of the government from classic Democrats to ultra-liberal positions came with the change in the Presidency from Jack Kennedy to Lyndon Johnson, father of "The Great Society."

But, the most significant factor in the transition was not as much in the political arena as in the area of education. The very unpopular Vietnam War caused an uprising against the Draft among college students, in particular those who were resisting being drafted and sent to fight in Vietnam.

These resisters in the anti-war movement also trended towards the "free love" breakdown of the nations' moral code. And, these "anti-establishment" people found themselves attracted to the profession of school teaching. It was an opportunity to spread their philosophy, while taking the least challenging courses offered at the university level. (No offense to our teachers, but a teaching degree is obviously not as difficult to obtain as a degree in law, medicine, or engineering.)

So..............now, for decades, successive generations of our impressionable children have been indoctrinated with the tenets of the Liberal agenda.

This has resulted in universities (which should be bastions of Free Speech) with severely circumscribed areas of Free Speech, bans against "offensive words," charges of "microaggression" in some cases of offensive speech, and the ultimate classic new Liberal nonsense of "Safe Spaces."

Who? --- Liberal activists.
What? --- Indoctrinated our children.
When? --- Beginning in the 1960s.
Where? --- In the schools.
Why? --- To gain power over our people.
How? --- By subverting our Constitution and laws.


Carl in Tampa

.
  #10  
Old 08-27-2017, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Guest
The silence from the left concerning this thread (subject matter) is both deafening and telling. I suspect the reason is progressives don't know how to fit in their Trump bashing into this topic


So to my conservative friends "How do you help relieve a progressive from exhibiting Trump Derangement Syndrome (TDS) ? speak to the legal and practical reasons for First Amendment rights.

Personal Best Regards:
What you have never grasped, nor will you is this.....

You make an assumption that anyone who finds Trump a disgusting person and a threat to our country is a liberal.

You assume all liberals feel the same way.

You speak of free speech, yet are silent on the pardon of a sheriff who denied free speech to many, and has cost his state millions.

You speak of free speech yet will not condemn the President for LOUDLY AND PROUDLY not condemning Nazis.

You couch every post in fancy words. You speak of identity politics as if owned by Democrats, yet ignore any other foray into the same thing.

In short, you are a phoney..totally.

I am a conservative and have been fighting for conservative values all my life.

I believe we have no new health care bill because our president was so wrapped up in his own imagery he did not do the work. Yet, you a professed follower of his preaching arecsilent. Of course you bkame congress FIRST, and they are not blameless but Trump is simply destroying any chance of real conservative LEGISLATION because of his interest in HIMSELF.

Those who endorse this man, but claim true to conservative values are simply phonies.

You refer to Trump as a means to something....not your words, but your thought. NO...you want to solve congressional logjams ?.you want to actually pass legislation in congress ?Trump is opposite of what is needed.

Changing things is done by legislation..it's that simple. The President, as head of the party in power must go to work, not accuse. He must lead, not hold rallies. He has to expand horizons, not limit them. He needs to unite, not divide.

Pretty simple. EOs last for a short time....want to make America great again ? Follow the AMERICAN ideals, and do the work. Stop talking about who is past..concentrate on America
 

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