Tax cuts and deficit

 
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Old 10-05-2017, 09:24 AM
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Default Tax cuts and deficit

The administration is offering large tax cuts with no commensurate spending cuts at all.

Should this signal that we are going to simply allow the deficit to grow and make not more attempts to even try to reduce it ?
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Old 10-05-2017, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Guest
The administration is offering large tax cuts with no commensurate spending cuts at all.

Should this signal that we are going to simply allow the deficit to grow and make not more attempts to even try to reduce it ?
Yup... We're $20 trillion in the hole and we borrow about 1/4 of the "budget" each year...over a $ trillion a year.

They KNOW the country is doomed due to the minority majority...the increasing poor...they're driving it into the ground and taking profits along the way.

America will collapse becoming Mexico II.

It's coming...it ALWAYS does. EVERY system/economy/empire/civilization before us HAS collapsed. We will too. The population "correction" will overshoot the mean. Only the toughest, meanest, most desperate, will survive. Humanity will reset, start over, again...like it has many times in the past. I just hope it waits until I'm gone.

In 10,000 years, there will be stories about the Gods who could fly. Maybe they'll write a book full of these stories...maybe they'll create a religion based on us.
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Old 10-05-2017, 11:44 AM
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Yup... We're $20 trillion in the hole and we borrow about 1/4 of the "budget" each year...over a $ trillion a year.

They KNOW the country is doomed due to the minority majority...the increasing poor...they're driving it into the ground and taking profits along the way.

America will collapse becoming Mexico II.

It's coming...it ALWAYS does. EVERY system/economy/empire/civilization before us HAS collapsed. We will too. The population "correction" will overshoot the mean. Only the toughest, meanest, most desperate, will survive. Humanity will reset, start over, again...like it has many times in the past. I just hope it waits until I'm gone.

In 10,000 years, there will be stories about the Gods who could fly. Maybe they'll write a book full of these stories...maybe they'll create a religion based on us.
You twist everything.

Point of this thread is the current proposals being submitted to the US congress and my reason for the thread was to try and have a real discussion and push people like you ot, so a true and honest discussion might occur on a real problem...deficit.

Tax cuts great, but we have a number of folks who know about the economy and hoping they post here.

What is not needed is people like you..take it where you live
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Old 10-05-2017, 12:10 PM
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Depending on the tax cuts, they can boost the economy. More money in the pocket of the workers, the more that gets spent and the more jobs required to produce such demand. Tax cuts on businesses means more money for investing, more money for hiring and more profit which usually means employee bonuses and pay raises. All of this means more spending, which boosts the economy. This fact is obtained from graphs of tax revenues, GDP growth and lifestyle changes for the past few decades. This is one way to boost the economy as well as tax revenues. On the other hand, if you increase taxes, you only increase tax revenues but not the economy.
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Old 10-05-2017, 12:13 PM
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Economists Think Republicans’ Tax Numbers Are a Joke.
Republicans are eager to justify tax cuts by promising growth and tax gains that history has shown will never come. The nonpartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget said the Republican tax framework released on Wednesday could add $2.2 trillion in deficit spending by handing out tax cuts “like Halloween candy.” Republicans’ favorite example from history is Ronald Reagan’s 1986 tax cut. On Wednesday, House Speaker Paul Ryan cited those cuts, claiming that they had given Americans a tax system they to be proud of. But the most comprehensive analysis of the Reagan cuts suggests they didn’t lead to economic growth. The next year, the Dow Jones dropped by 22 percent in one day, the largest crash in US history.
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Old 10-05-2017, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Guest
Depending on the tax cuts, they can boost the economy. More money in the pocket of the workers, the more that gets spent and the more jobs required to produce such demand. Tax cuts on businesses means more money for investing, more money for hiring and more profit which usually means employee bonuses and pay raises. All of this means more spending, which boosts the economy. This fact is obtained from graphs of tax revenues, GDP growth and lifestyle changes for the past few decades. This is one way to boost the economy as well as tax revenues. On the other hand, if you increase taxes, you only increase tax revenues but not the economy.
The average middle class family will get a tax cut of about $40. The average wealthy family will get a tax cut of about $7 million.
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Old 10-05-2017, 12:32 PM
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When a bill is finally agreed upon then one can argue its positive/negative affects.

However a very critical piece of this proposal is the state/local income tax deduction. iIs a good example of tax preference that adds complexity to the tax codes and subsudizes some taxpayers at the expense of other taxpayers.

In States like New York, New Jersey, California its a big deal. Its a savings overall of $1.25 trillion over 10 years, savings that can be used to lower rates.

There are 33 House Republicans who hail from states such as New York were this deduction is sacrosanct and they are the wealthiest regions in the nation were the deduction amounts are substantial for these taxpayers.

You can bet what side of this issue Chuck Schummer will be on.

Another deduction is the mortgage deduction and lobbyist from builders and realtors are lining up at the door.

Unless we get a clean bill with NO CARVE OUT the end product will be diluted

Personal Best Regards:
  #8  
Old 10-05-2017, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Guest
You twist everything.

Point of this thread is the current proposals being submitted to the US congress and my reason for the thread was to try and have a real discussion and push people like you ot, so a true and honest discussion might occur on a real problem...deficit.

Tax cuts great, but we have a number of folks who know about the economy and hoping they post here.

What is not needed is people like you..take it where you live
No...I "untwist" it...I tell you the REAL problem and it's TOO MANY POOR PEOPLE. Half the country gets a government benefit now. The federal government spends over a $ trillion a year on the "poor". How long do you think this can go on? Can 60% collect benefits? Can 75%? Can 100%? Can the government provide everyone with "free" insurance that costs about $1,000 a month? It's NOT my fault...it's NOT my doing that 90% of the poor are minorities.

Why do you want the truth pushed out? It's hard to have a real discussion when everyone is lying and refuses to admit the truth. Yes...the deficit IS way too high...over a $ trillion of the deficit IS welfare. WHY can't/won't you talk about that? Is the military the ONLY thing you want cut? Corporate "welfare"? Yes...they MUST be cut too...but welfare to the "poor" that can pay the equivalent of $60,000 a year MUST be cut too.

I do know a lot about the economy...it's fake. It's been fake since the crash in 2008. It's being kept afloat with government deficit spending. It's NOT going to improve because the demographics has changed too much for it to recover. We ARE a minority majority and NO minority majority country is successful. Within 30 years...America will be no more. We are bankrupt and the debt is spiraling out of control.

I'm telling what IS happening...not what they want you to THINK is happening. Turn OFF the TV...put down the newspaper...that is propaganda...misinformation...just like the people of Russia, China, and N Korea gets.

What IS needed is MORE people like me...educated, informed, and willing to share.

See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil? You're a mushroom, kept in the dark and fed ****. There IS evil out there...and they're called our "leaders". You MUST look at them...you MUST hear them...and you MUST say something about them.

You want to fix the deficit? Elect no more Ds or Rs...ever. They are BOTH completely corrupt.
  #9  
Old 10-05-2017, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest
When a bill is finally agreed upon then one can argue its positive/negative affects.

However a very critical piece of this proposal is the state/local income tax deduction. iIs a good example of tax preference that adds complexity to the tax codes and subsudizes some taxpayers at the expense of other taxpayers.

In States like New York, New Jersey, California its a big deal. Its a savings overall of $1.25 trillion over 10 years, savings that can be used to lower rates.

There are 33 House Republicans who hail from states such as New York were this deduction is sacrosanct and they are the wealthiest regions in the nation were the deduction amounts are substantial for these taxpayers.

You can bet what side of this issue Chuck Schummer will be on.

Another deduction is the mortgage deduction and lobbyist from builders and realtors are lining up at the door.

Unless we get a clean bill with NO CARVE OUT the end product will be diluted

Personal Best Regards:
It appears that Republicans will scrap the idea of eliminating this deduction to get votes for the overall proposal.

Republicans consider keeping the state and local tax deduction as they search for votes for overhaul - LA Times

So much for the carve out.

I am more interested in my OP...i.e., cutting taxes from wherever, with no commensurate spending cuts.

I keep hearing about, what even supporters question a huge increase in GDP.

That is what I would like to hear opinions on, because you cut taxes, they are cut. Nobody will want to raise them and depending on such an increase in GDP seems a bit irresponsible.

The deficit grows, the rich get richer it seems
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Old 10-05-2017, 03:13 PM
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The average middle class family will get a tax cut of about $40. The average wealthy family will get a tax cut of about $7 million.
Do you have a link to that information? What are the income groups that you are quoting. How do you average a wealthy family?
  #11  
Old 10-05-2017, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Guest
It appears that Republicans will scrap the idea of eliminating this deduction to get votes for the overall proposal.

Republicans consider keeping the state and local tax deduction as they search for votes for overhaul - LA Times

So much for the carve out.

I am more interested in my OP...i.e., cutting taxes from wherever, with no commensurate spending cuts.

I keep hearing about, what even supporters question a huge increase in GDP.

That is what I would like to hear opinions on, because you cut taxes, they are cut. Nobody will want to raise them and depending on such an increase in GDP seems a bit irresponsible.

The deficit grows, the rich get richer it seems
In this country, when the rich get richer the middle and lower class have always improved their lifestyle. I think that many folks fail to realize that our average poor family lives as well as many middle class in other countries. Our middle class lives as well as upper middle class to lower wealthy in other countries. Why? Because we have an abundance of wealthy in this country.
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Old 10-05-2017, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Guest
In this country, when the rich get richer the middle and lower class have always improved their lifestyle. I think that many folks fail to realize that our average poor family lives as well as many middle class in other countries. Our middle class lives as well as upper middle class to lower wealthy in other countries. Why? Because we have an abundance of wealthy in this country.
You miss the entire point.

Lower taxes equals lower revenue.

We already are choking on deficits.

When you lower your revenue, you go to lower your spending
  #13  
Old 10-05-2017, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Guest
Depending on the tax cuts, they can boost the economy. More money in the pocket of the workers, the more that gets spent and the more jobs required to produce such demand. Tax cuts on businesses means more money for investing, more money for hiring and more profit which usually means employee bonuses and pay raises. All of this means more spending, which boosts the economy. This fact is obtained from graphs of tax revenues, GDP growth and lifestyle changes for the past few decades. This is one way to boost the economy as well as tax revenues. On the other hand, if you increase taxes, you only increase tax revenues but not the economy.
30 years ago a tax cut of this size may have moved economy but today it will only transfer wealth. The promise of high paying job creation is a real stretch. For anyone who is serious about making money the last thing they will want to do is hire employees, kind of like collateral damage in a war. You invest in technology instead of people. Now if tax cuts are directly targeted at businesses that actually hire more USA employees makes sense, not a budget busting tax cut with no guarantees. I think general tax cuts will help foreign manufacturers not us.
  #14  
Old 10-05-2017, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest
In this country, when the rich get richer the middle and lower class have always improved their lifestyle. I think that many folks fail to realize that our average poor family lives as well as many middle class in other countries. Our middle class lives as well as upper middle class to lower wealthy in other countries. Why? Because we have an abundance of wealthy in this country.
ALL due to debt. We borrow and give it to the poor. It can't last...it won't last.

We have DEBT...NOT wealth. We owe $20 trillion...we go in the hole over $1 trillion each year. Even the businesses/corporations are leveraged with debt. Our system is DEBT based. Debt based systems NEVER last.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guest
30 years ago a tax cut of this size may have moved economy but today it will only transfer wealth. The promise of high paying job creation is a real stretch. For anyone who is serious about making money the last thing they will want to do is hire employees, kind of like collateral damage in a war. You invest in technology instead of people. Now if tax cuts are directly targeted at businesses that actually hire more USA employees makes sense, not a budget busting tax cut with no guarantees. I think general tax cuts will help foreign manufacturers not us.
The debt is expanding exponentially and the demographics are changing almost as fast. "America" is finished. Within 30 years. I hope it comes after I'm gone.
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Old 10-05-2017, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Rockface View Post

Lower taxes equals lower revenue.
Spoken like a true Democrat!

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