Go back and read Aristotle. One of his writings alludes to the ruination of the future generations because of the lack of respect for parents and discipline by the younger generation.

It is magnified today by the increasingly permissive, pacifist, politically correct, linguine spined population of today, supported by a media and judicial sytem that lacks any and all credibility to ever do what is right.

btk

OK, and if you thought that child at risk, or neglected, you know who in social services to talk to. I'm sure of that. That's the only right way to handle that situation, unless you had the fortitude to confront her parents yourself.

It's the wholesale confiscation of time honored parental rights by intellectuals who "know better" than everyone else how children should be raised that raises the hackles for me.

How about Michelle Bachmann saying that the government has no right to demand that school age children are vaccinated for communicable diseases before attending school? She says it should be up to the parents to decide.

Thoughts like that can bring back the polio epidemics that we had in the 1950's or even some disease like smallpox.

It's the wholesale confiscation of time honored parental rights by intellectuals who "know better" than everyone else how children should be raised that raises the hackles for me.[/QUOTE]

Well, to kind of level the field, my hackles are raised by people who want to impose their religious views on everyone else on every possible subject, including child raising/education. Do you think the relgious folk know better then a trained professional? Two sides to every issue.

Like I said, morality is up to the family...the facts of procreation are FACTS. Knowledge is power. You have no idea how many young girls I worked with who believed you could not get pregnant the first time you had sex or that STDs were something only skanks got.

I always told the kids that people are different, religious beliefs are different, but you have to respect others points of view. Different does not mean better or worse. It means different. You have to be accepting of differences, until they try to ram their ideas down your throat and treat you with no respect.

Given the state of many youth these days, their parents did not do such a great job. I can not believe what I hear out of parents mouths these days..the language I would not ever use in public to another adult, let alone a child. I used to intervene when I saw parents abusing their children in public, but that never ended well. Any adult who would assault a child has little behavioral control with adults. I stopped intervening directly, but I would call 911 and ask for police intervention. A child should not be struck repeatedly in the head for dropping an ice cream cone. So, you know what, sometimes parents should have NO rights.

Sorry this kind of rambled all over the place....

Join a groundswell group to have the laws challenged and thrown out as unconstitutional - though it's highly likely that things would never get that far.

In point of fact, this is EXACTLY what happened in Merrimack NH (two towns over from where I live) where some stealth creationists got onto the local school board. The uproar startd talk of recall petitions and many other things. While I don't remember exactly how it was all resolved, I *do* know that those radical board members didn't stay on the board.

That being said, again, I'm asking about "what parental rights" should go "how far".

It's a real grey area when you get to sex education and reproductive health - I'm not denying that one bit. In *most* cases, the laws aren't necessary as parents USUALLY do the right thing. But the law isn't there to protect "most cases". Laws exist when people start coloring outside the lines.

It's dangerous territory. My own birth mother made a *horribly* erroneous leap of illogic when she took something that my then-4+-year-old-daughter did and assumed it meant that she was being sexually abused at the kindergarten we sent her to.

Imagine what would have happened if she reported her suspicions to the authorities.

In a perfect world, only the unfit parents would have their kids go behind their backs. Of course, in a perfect world we wouldn't have unfit parents.

We were taught he basics of human physiology when I was in school, but that's not was Dplong and the others are discussing. I have no problem with the school sticking with the science. After that, they're out of bounds.

Richie: (and I'm really glad this is staying civil) With your opinion parental rights, how should that be affected by kids who think things like:

1) You can't get pregnant the first time
2) You can't get pregnant "doing it standing up"
3) You can get pregnant by kissing.

...or.. one of my favorites, and an otherwise intelligent peer of mine actually thought this back in 1979:

4) Urinating and taking a bath afterwards is an effective form of birth control.

It is *astounding* the kinds of misinformation that is out there.

I heard most of those things when I was a kid and survived it pretty well. (of course, as a male, the info wasn't as critical)

The basic health courses we had when I was young covered most of that pretty well, in the sense that the causes and effects of reproduction were in the curriculum, but of course what your friends said carried a lot of weight also.

Teachers should ask for questions and answer them with the child's age in mind. If the question seems a little sophisticated for the age of the child, a teacher should delve into that a little more privately and maybe bring the parents into the conversation if warranted.

Teacher's need to stick to the age appropriate science. (I hope we don't have to get into a long analysis of what that means. It should be common sensical)

Good posting, Richie. I agree with you.

On the part where you say that the teacher would ask if students had questions that were not covered in the basic health class, I also agree that if the questions seemed too advanced for a child that age, that the teacher should go into it privately. It may mean that child is sexually active and needs counseling from someone they are comfortable speaking with if the parent is not available or approachable.

Your post says a lot. Some I agree with.. But "..as a male the info wasn't as critical"?!?!? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and ask you to explain that because that's one of the problems we have with teen pregnancy - the guys thinking it's not really as mcuh THEIR problem as it is a FEMALE's problem.

Now, I had "health" classes in NYC in the 5th grade and we knew all the TECHNICAL stuff about reproduction - but EVERY kid in the class (from when we talked about it later) had the same question.. "What are the man and woman doing during all this?"

Now, about asking question, I have no argument with you there.. This is part of what I was asking about earlier for you to clarify your stand on 'parental rights'. There are those in the 'parental rights' group who don't want such subjects even *mentioned*.

"as a male.......": I only meant in the end, acting on any misinformation has a more palpable meaning to a female, ultimately.

"asking questions": I don't think the school should take on human sexuality in anything more than in a scientific application. I was referring to questions initiated by the student. The teacher will have to deal with that in a responsible and age appropriate way as I indicated in an above posting. This applies to your hypothetical 5th graders.

I assure you, Richie, we were not "hypothetical" 5th graders. It was my 5th grade class at P.S. 55 on Staten Island in New York City.

But I do appreciate the clarification. Thanks.

For what it's worth, none of us had the guts to ask the teacher the questions we had. We knew enough to pass the tests and that was the end of it. Of course, I'm only speaking for the guys in the class - not a lot of gender co-mingling there.