Taking custody of one's children is not the issue. The issue is, in this context, educating kids about birth control. I would venture to say that right leaning parents would be more likely to NOT give consent to educating their kids in school. Abstinence is best for kids, but come on, that does not work too well. So, its either teach them how not to get pregnant in the first place or deal with the consequences. I would rather teach them, in an age appropriate way. Kids these days are WAY more sexualized then they were when I was a kid. Kids are having sex younger and younger and girls are beginning to mensturate earlier and earlier. Its like a perfect storm brewing.

OK, so you think you know better that other parents who might want to raise their children in a different atmosphere. So, do you think you have the right to supersede their parental rights because you're so much more sophisticated and more enlightened?

Richie: You didn't answer my question - but I understand you got sidetracked by my example.

What I asked was if you would define, in YOUR opinion, 'parental rights'.

In the medical arena, the parent of a patient under the age of 18 yrs must give consent to treat before the medical personnel can even touch the patient. Parental rights also includes parental responsibilities.

We both know the definition of parental rights. To supersede them you must go to court and prove your case of negligence, which is what you're implying by your post and your example. That is the only fair way to proceed.

A bunch of intellectuals sitting in a room and deciding that the poor unwashed have no business raising children is abhorrent.

That was the premise which Margaret Sanger presented when she wrote her book "The Pivot of Civilization". She went on to found Planned Parenthood. She also advocated sterilization of poor unwashed people, and lots of legal abortions for those that got that far. http://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/user...genics/sanger/

What a bunch of boloney. When I was a teenager,my friends and I were as "sexualized" as the generation before me and the generation after me.

Is " sexualized" even a real word?:ohdear:

Well I was asking for an idea of how big your tent was when it came to that.

The reason I supplied the example was to ask you how your opinion of parental rights would deal with the sample situation.

There was an old saying about sex education in schools. The gist was that the kids who NEEDED to be taught that in schools were the ones who weren't getting the education form the parents - who were most likely to be the parents objecting to the school teaching it.

I certainly see the problem in trying to figure out "who decides" when it's time for someone else (not necessarily the state - could be a relative) takes over.

What would you do as a parent if the "right wing religious Bible thumping zealots" controlled the schools and made those choices for the parents?

You mean like home school them? That's fine. You think kids are not going to talk about what they were told in those public school classes? Of course they will. I am a realist. That is what will happen. You want them to hear it from an educator or on the street? You could certainly prepare them for the class and inject whatever religious or personal sentiments you have about the issue. BUT biology is biology and sexual plumbing is what it is. FACTS are what I want kids to learn. Morality is up to the parents.

Go back and read Aristotle. One of his writings alludes to the ruination of the future generations because of the lack of respect for parents and discipline by the younger generation.

It is magnified today by the increasingly permissive, pacifist, politically correct, linguine spined population of today, supported by a media and judicial sytem that lacks any and all credibility to ever do what is right.

btk

OK, and if you thought that child at risk, or neglected, you know who in social services to talk to. I'm sure of that. That's the only right way to handle that situation, unless you had the fortitude to confront her parents yourself.

It's the wholesale confiscation of time honored parental rights by intellectuals who "know better" than everyone else how children should be raised that raises the hackles for me.

How about Michelle Bachmann saying that the government has no right to demand that school age children are vaccinated for communicable diseases before attending school? She says it should be up to the parents to decide.

Thoughts like that can bring back the polio epidemics that we had in the 1950's or even some disease like smallpox.

It's the wholesale confiscation of time honored parental rights by intellectuals who "know better" than everyone else how children should be raised that raises the hackles for me.[/QUOTE]

Well, to kind of level the field, my hackles are raised by people who want to impose their religious views on everyone else on every possible subject, including child raising/education. Do you think the relgious folk know better then a trained professional? Two sides to every issue.

Like I said, morality is up to the family...the facts of procreation are FACTS. Knowledge is power. You have no idea how many young girls I worked with who believed you could not get pregnant the first time you had sex or that STDs were something only skanks got.

I always told the kids that people are different, religious beliefs are different, but you have to respect others points of view. Different does not mean better or worse. It means different. You have to be accepting of differences, until they try to ram their ideas down your throat and treat you with no respect.

Given the state of many youth these days, their parents did not do such a great job. I can not believe what I hear out of parents mouths these days..the language I would not ever use in public to another adult, let alone a child. I used to intervene when I saw parents abusing their children in public, but that never ended well. Any adult who would assault a child has little behavioral control with adults. I stopped intervening directly, but I would call 911 and ask for police intervention. A child should not be struck repeatedly in the head for dropping an ice cream cone. So, you know what, sometimes parents should have NO rights.

Sorry this kind of rambled all over the place....

Join a groundswell group to have the laws challenged and thrown out as unconstitutional - though it's highly likely that things would never get that far.

In point of fact, this is EXACTLY what happened in Merrimack NH (two towns over from where I live) where some stealth creationists got onto the local school board. The uproar startd talk of recall petitions and many other things. While I don't remember exactly how it was all resolved, I *do* know that those radical board members didn't stay on the board.

That being said, again, I'm asking about "what parental rights" should go "how far".

It's a real grey area when you get to sex education and reproductive health - I'm not denying that one bit. In *most* cases, the laws aren't necessary as parents USUALLY do the right thing. But the law isn't there to protect "most cases". Laws exist when people start coloring outside the lines.

It's dangerous territory. My own birth mother made a *horribly* erroneous leap of illogic when she took something that my then-4+-year-old-daughter did and assumed it meant that she was being sexually abused at the kindergarten we sent her to.

Imagine what would have happened if she reported her suspicions to the authorities.

In a perfect world, only the unfit parents would have their kids go behind their backs. Of course, in a perfect world we wouldn't have unfit parents.