Originally Posted by djplong

It just irks me incessantly that the same actions can result in diametrically opposed outcomes.

If a TSA agent asks to fondle my genitals at the security gate and I say "no", I get ejected.

If a TSA agent asks to fondle my genitals at the doors just over 50' away (the entrance to the terminal) and I say "no", I get to sue them for sexual assault, they lose their jobs and may go to prison.

By comparison, any other police officer operates under the same rules no matter where they are.

Oh No; the way our government works that's what they'll change. They'll be groping us in the parking lot now. Gee, thanks a lot DJ.

Well, Cologal and Richie, I do not have any medical implants or prosthetics and I am very happy about that.

Cologal, you seem to have adapted quite well to the situation since you do fly quite a bit. You will have a hard time with your lawsuit against TSA but that is your choice. If your case is ever heard, your background will play a big part for the TSA and it will also be TSA's word against yours. That is not meant to be derogative in any sense but just a legal view. No reply, pls.

Richie, you have not adapted at all. Your wife flies with no problem. Must be tough to explain to your children why Dad does not join the family group but that is your choice.

We all make our choices in what we do. I fly and have no problem. Cologal adapts to the situation and flies. Richie's wife flies and has no problem. Richie does not adapt and does not fly.

If you want to fly - adapt to the rules and regulations. It does not matter whether or not you think the rules are too much or too little, they are the rules.

Originally Posted by Tbugs

Well, Cologal and Richie, I do not have any medical implants or prosthetics and I am very happy about that.

Cologal, you seem to have adapted quite well to the situation since you do fly quite a bit. You will have a hard time with your lawsuit against TSA but that is your choice. If your case is ever heard, your background will play a big part for the TSA and it will also be TSA's word against yours. That is not meant to be derogative in any sense but just a legal view. No reply, pls.

Richie, you have not adapted at all. Your wife flies with no problem. Must be tough to explain to your children why Dad does not join the family group but that is your choice.

We all make our choices in what we do. I fly and have no problem. Cologal adapts to the situation and flies. Richie's wife flies and has no problem. Richie does not adapt and does not fly.

If you want to fly - adapt to the rules and regulations. It does not matter whether or not you think the rules are too much or too little, they are the rules.

You don't know me or my family. Very presumptuous to comment on my relationship with them. They would be the first ones up in your face, believe me.

You fly with no problem; well good for you. I bet you climb stairs with no problem also; well good for you. Your empathy is quite "admirable".

I won't adapt. I'll continue to speak out and contribute to the people who are trying to stop this abdication of our 4th Amendment rights. I'll also continue to disagree with people like you who'll send your children into the hands of strangers to fondle them for any reason they want to, if they want to, whenever they want to.

Rules are rules? In Nazi Germany, the rule were Jews had to wear a yellow star on their clothing. Rules are rules?!?!

Cologal has to fly because of her profession. It's required for her to travel to earn her living. I hurt for Cologal. I wish I could in some way help her beat this arbitrary system that enables strangers to put their hands on her. You are, again, quite presumptuous to comment on her lawsuit when you know diddly squat about it. How about just wishing her good luck?

I don't have her obligations and thus do not have to allow my own personal degradation, and I don't.

Originally Posted by RichieLion

You don't know me or my family. Very presumptuous to comment on my relationship with them. They would be the first ones up in your face, believe me.

You fly with no problem; well good for you. I bet you climb stairs with no problem also; well good for you. Your empathy is quite "admirable".

I won't adapt. I'll continue to speak out and contribute to the people who are trying to stop this abdication of our 4th Amendment rights. I'll also continue to disagree with people like you who'll send your children into the hands of strangers to fondle them for any reason they want to, if they want to, whenever they want to.

Rules are rules? In Nazi Germany, the rule were Jews had to wear a yellow star on their clothing. Rules are rules?!?!

Cologal has to fly because of her profession. It's required for her to travel to earn her living. I hurt for Cologal. I wish I could in some way help her beat this arbitrary system that enables strangers to put their hands on her. You are, again, quite presumptuous to comment on her lawsuit when you know diddly squat about it. How about just wishing her good luck?

I don't have her obligations and thus do not have to allow my own personal degradation, and I don't.

Richie.

I didn't realize that you are disabled.

I don't read every post on here.

I apologize if I have been insensitive.

Originally Posted by graciegirl

Richie.

I didn't realize that you are disabled.

I don't read every post on here.

I apologize if I have been insensitive.

I'm not disabled to any great extent Gracie, and I'm fine with you and your comments. I know your comments come from faith in your fellow man and the goodness of your heart, but I just don't trust in my fellow man's goodness very easily; I want evidence, individual by individual.

In 1999 I was in an accident while on my motorcycle (last day i rode one after 25 years of incident free glorious riding). The worst injury was my left leg was shattered. It was rebuilt with implants in my left femur and left tibia. It's not a pretty leg but it works. My knee on that leg gives me problems with pain when I walk too long or have to climb stairs. I cannot run because of the cartilage problems in that knee, and a bit of arthritis, I'm told.

It's the implants that are an issue only at the airport. I use to go right through, but it seems that they must be setting the metal detectors with readings that detect my implants more readily, because the last few times I flew I was pulled aside. Back then when they got to your sensitive areas they cursorily patted them down with the back of the hand. It was still uncomfortable to me. I won't permit the new enhanced patdowns to be performed on me and I'll undoubtedly cause a scene which won't be pleasant for me or anyone else flying with me. It's better I don't attempt this.

It's easy for me to empathize with others because I used to be "one of them".

I certainly have NO problem with stairs or any other mobility challenge but I wasn't always this way. I was born crippled. Yes, crippled. Not "challenged" or "differently abled". My legs were born looking like pretzels (bilateral club feet).

I have NEVER forgotten what my early years in casts, crutches, braces and wheechairs were like or the post-surgery difficulties I had.

Today is 4/6 and I reviewed the post since my last entry. This is an emotional charged topic for some and rightly so. The problem with the TSA tactics are that they are reactive and not proactive. The government stops a shoe bomber and the governement implement a procedure where all shoes have to be removed. The governement finds that terrorists conceal explosive in liquids and all liquids are banned and so on.

Israel no doubt has as difficult a problem and probably worse and their procedure is one of questioning. I am sure it is more than that but i don't have a top secret clearance yet. the point is that america's policy is too reactive. Honestly wouldn't it be easy for a terrorist to walk in an airport, school, department store,etc and open fire with an uzi and kill as many?
Put another way while the TSA is busy doing their thing terrorist already have devised another method for infiltration. speaking of which the gaps in our borders noth and south are so wide that OTM's (other than Mexicans) crossing the border represent what some expert claims is better thn 20%

And now we have this:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42568865/ns/travel-news/

The TSA molests a 6-year-old.

If ANY other person did that in ANY other place, they would go to prison and be on a SEX OFFENDER'S LIST for the REST OF THEIR LIVES.

Originally Posted by djplong

And now we have this:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42568865/ns/travel-news/

The TSA molests a 6-year-old.

If ANY other person did that in ANY other place, they would go to prison and be on a SEX OFFENDER'S LIST for the REST OF THEIR LIVES.

I was going to post this but you beat me to it.....

I'm with Richielion on this topic. These TSA people are for the most part low paid, uneducated people put in positions of power. We as the public have no recourse to these people and they know it hence the power trip. To top it off I do not feel any safer when they fondle a 6 year old,or aan 86 year old. By the way does anyone know if the fondler of the 6 year old was fired. Also I am rooting for Cologal and her lawsuit.

Originally Posted by Tbugs

Well, Cologal and Richie, I do not have any medical implants or prosthetics and I am very happy about that.

Cologal, you seem to have adapted quite well to the situation since you do fly quite a bit. You will have a hard time with your lawsuit against TSA but that is your choice. If your case is ever heard, your background will play a big part for the TSA and it will also be TSA's word against yours. That is not meant to be derogative in any sense but just a legal view. No reply, pls.

Richie, you have not adapted at all. Your wife flies with no problem. Must be tough to explain to your children why Dad does not join the family group but that is your choice.

We all make our choices in what we do. I fly and have no problem. Cologal adapts to the situation and flies. Richie's wife flies and has no problem. Richie does not adapt and does not fly.

If you want to fly - adapt to the rules and regulations. It does not matter whether or not you think the rules are too much or too little, they are the rules.

I have being traveling and therefore not posting for a while. But I will answer one of your comments. It is said that for every action there is a reaction which no one can control. So my comment back is only on it will be their word against mine.....thankfully NO. It is all caught on tape. And I have a quite a number of emails from customer service at COS.

My point is now and always has been this....

Any able bodied person can select to walk through a metal detector with a bomb, no metal parts, in his or her unmentionables without detection. It has happened twice.....that is why we call him the underwear bomber.

So I am the reverse of a terrorist when I hit the airport....I look and often ask where the scanner is operating and head right for it. The opposite is quite simple you can readily see which scanner is in operation and avoid it. The only deterrent then is you might be selected for the mother of all pat-downs.

That is why we pat down 6 year olds..... feeling safe?

I didn't take anything you said personally by the way.

Originally Posted by graciegirl

I am sorry Richie. I still don't get it. And sorry too Cologal that you have to go through this and it causes you so much anxiety.

There are terrorists and these procedures can help us fly safely or at least a little safer. I think that the procedures are for the greater good and for greater safety. Are they fail safe? Probably not. But you can't just let them think that we aren't tryin'.

Helene has metal wiring in her sternum from a heart surgery. I would never think that she was being targeted.

I cannot believe that every person working for the TSA or a majority of people working for the TSA or a lot of people working for the TSA are sex deviates.

I see that it is your political stance and even your heartfelt belief against government intervention, when not needed and I am trying to see it from your side.

Cologal flies a lot and Richie you don't fly.

Could it just be possible, that most of these people who work for the TSA are just ordinary folks with a job to do?

I do not understand all this fear. At least that is how it feels to me when I read these posts. Fear.


Could you allow yourself to think, just for one moment that these procedures are helping...even a little?

In a perfect world, the one we grew up in even, this wouldn't be necessary. Unfortunately it is.

Graciegirl...

I have been trying to compose a post that would help you understand.....

I believe that the days of us walking directly on an airplane are long over. Security is required however it should be applied equally. No one segment of the population should be over burdened. This week I flew home to Colorado from Orlando but I did not fly to the closest airport to my home. Instead I flew to DEN not COS. A friend drove up to Denver to pick me up and will drop me off at the airport hotel on Saturday for the flight back as it is a 0 Dark 30 in the morning. Why am I doing this because if I fly out of COS then I will be subjected to a very invasive pat-down. While I am not a proponent nor a opponent of profiling I believe this could be a tool to stop the unwarranted searches of the disabled. So if you look at my profile I have been flying a lot for more than 20 years most of my trips start at COS, I know the people there and they know me. I purchase round trip tickets in advance and I check luggage every trip. I am a US citizen with 3 nephews in the military and no criminal record or ties to a terrorist group. The only thing is the metal in my knees. TSA knows where the metal detector alarms....they don't need to check my bra I didn't alarm there. Why can't I undergo a background check, at my expense, and be cleared?

The only thing that protects the population from a bomb is a scanner, but only 87 airports in the US have scanners and they are not always operational. So is TSA targeting the disabled? I think yes, the sight of the 2% of us undergoing a pat down after being caught with metal parts makes the 98% of you feel safe and protected. And because of that we are overburdened.

Hope this helps.