Originally Posted by Tbugs

The two largest "socialist" programs in existence now are Social Security (signed into law by Franklin Roosevelt) and Medicare (signed into law by Lyndon Johnson).

How many true conservatives would be willing to give up their Social Security benefits and their Medicare benefits? I figure some of you are also veterans with service-connected disablities and are collecting some monthly benefits from the VA. Let's have all the true conservatives volunteer to bite the bullet a little (being true patriots, this is a small hardship) and denounce all of your government entitlements.

Don't give me this crap of "I worked for those benefits". Show your true colors and say you do not want these socialist programs and you will not take them anymore. Walk the walk if you talk the talk.

I might be willing to give them up if the government returns to me every single dollar of taxes they grabbed from me in 43 years of employment, plus interest, to "fund" these programs. That would only be fair if I was to consider your premise of now removing myself from these programs that I was forced into.

RichieLioa

Are you saying that IF it were possible (which it is not now), you would counsel your children -or grandchildren - just entering the workforce NOT to take Medicare or Social Security (if they were to have the option) or military disability benefit and to sign a binding agreement they will never ask for government assistance in any program?

They would be free to invest any or all of their salaries into real estate, stock market, or whatever but there woulld be no "government cheese" if hard times ever came. It would be sink or swim with no government life preserver available.

That would be a gutsy move to counsel the grandkids to do.

I don't know about Richie Liion, but I would do it in a heartbeat if given the opportunity. Yes, I would encourage my grandchildren to do the same, when they get into the work force.

I did absolutely teach my children and will continue to teach my grandchildren, by the Grace of God, to believe in the power of individual responsibillity, to believe in themselves and to believe in individuals and not to believe in government and institutions as the protector of the individual. That is a no-brainer IMHO. I can't imagine teaching my children or grandchildren to depend on government cheese if times get tough.

Originally Posted by Tbugs

RichieLioa

Are you saying that IF it were possible (which it is not now), you would counsel your children -or grandchildren - just entering the workforce NOT to take Medicare or Social Security (if they were to have the option) or military disability benefit and to sign a binding agreement they will never ask for government assistance in any program?

They would be free to invest any or all of their salaries into real estate, stock market, or whatever but there woulld be no "government cheese" if hard times ever came. It would be sink or swim with no government life preserver available.

That would be a gutsy move to counsel the grandkids to do.

Absolutely Tbugs; now more that ever. The money my children and grandchildren are, and will be, pouring into these programs, they're never going to get back. I think they could do far better for themselves if the funds were not taken from them. Of course, it only benefits them if they do indeed invest wisely and judiciously with these monies; something the feds don't even do.

that fit their definition of socialism-like programs, were put together with we the people in mind. By "REPRESENTATIVES" who while still politicians were more for the people than today's politically, special interest, me first oriented phony representatives whose concern for we the people is the last priority.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that had I had the option to opt out and invest the money on my own, I would be sitting here with a look forward account with substantially more equity that the government has for my same contributed funds. My funds would not have been watered down by all the bogus legislation our so called representatives put forward.

And for sure me and my investment facilitators would NEVER have bought into let's sign up and then read to see what is in what we bought (ala Pelosi stupid direction).
Also remember that social security and medicare face some future shortfalls as the government has from time to time dipped into those funds when they were deemed to have surpluses...just like corporate America did to retirement funds.

No, it would not take much incentive other than to look at the cast of characters who wear the mis-nomer "representatives"...you know the ones who don't pay their taxes, the ones who direct funds to their advantage, the ones who actually steal and the whole array of those who cannot control their zippers (both sexes).

Given a choice.....NO THANX!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RichieLion and the others that tagged on: I applaud you for your words. Richie did hit the nail on the head, though, when he said individual investing would only work if done continuouly and judicially. The government Social Security (or in my case, Civil Service Retirement System) automatically took the deductions from your paycheck. How many people would be so disciplined to do it themselves every 2 weeks? You may be planning to do it every two weeks - but that Lazy Boy recliner is on sale this week (Hey, mine is great!) and I will use this weeks investment money for that.

Anyhow, some good answers.

I just thought I'd like to add to this discussion that of all my close friends in my neighborhood group, only one person, besides myself, is primarily pension dependent. All others have IRA's, 401K's and other private investments that make up the bulk of their retirement income. So the majority of people that I know already provided for themselves, and Social Security is just some extra income from a plan that they had no choice but to participate in.