I'm sure this is aimed at me. A bit of a history lesson.

I joined this forum just a few days ago. This is how I was greeted:


Quote:
Originally Posted by harbor53 View Post
1. The debt ceiling has been raised 3 times under this administration without a problem. It is only a problem now because the House wants to use it as leverage to address broader budget issues. This "manufactured crisis" is a stupid game that places the entire world economy at risk. We have already done serious damage to our economy as well as our leverage in the world with this silly partisan debate.

2. We actually have a very real budget crisis involving the nation's debt as a percentage of GDP was well as an potentially explosive problem involving the concentration of wealth and capital in fewer hands.

First, the debt. No party has the high ground on this issue. We were spent into a hole by the last administration and the bursting of the real estate bubble with the resulting Wall Street crisis made a bad situation worse. This is not Obama's debt or Bush's debt - this is our debt and we are all going to have to accept pain to resolve it.

That will mean higher taxes. Hopefully, this will be in the form of simplifying the tax code and curtailing deductions/subsidies - plus, lowering rates for small business as well as encouraging business investment in this country (no more PO box overseas tax shelters). Still, if you insist on 1950's tax rates, you better insist on 1950's government programs -- otherwise, you need to accept the hypocrisy in your belief system.

And -- of course, lowering the debt will require significant reductions in spending. And - those who think that entitlements and the military will not be touched have spent a day too long in Fantasyland. That is where most money is spent.

My own belief system leans me to look for discretionary spending cuts that weigh more heavily on those who can afford it. I think it is a mistake to cut spending in education (unless you like living in the third world) and in those government programs that protect our health plus those programs that root out fraud and abuse.

Those value judgment choices need to be made by folks who take governance seriously and who know the fine art of compromise and horse-trading. Ideologs need not apply. They will not help us get out of this royal mess we are in.

Lastly, the increasing gap between rich and poor needs to be addressed and soon. It is a social powder keg. Moreover, ours is a consumer-based economy. Want to get the economy moving again, shift some money to folks who will spend it instead of those who want to move more of their portfolio to gold. I'm not talking about handouts to the poor - I am talking incentives to move capital back into the system and into the hands of folks who will spread it around.

I am not a left-wing fanatic (well, not all of the time) - but, if you value your freedom and liberty you need to understand that you can't always keep what you want (Rollings Stones reference here). It is a lesson learned the hard way in France, Russia, and over and over in poorer countries.

Lesson over - class dismissed. Sorry for any hurt feelings.

Cheers!
Harbor

12RideHD responded:

Such a total lack of understand of our free market system and the root cause of our problems. We have the highest standard of living in the world, only 50% of our people pay taxes and we need more wealth distribution. Very sad thinking. It actually scares me that you vote.
__________________
Then Villagegolfer quoted this and added:

"Amen!!!"

+++++++++++++++

Well - at that point, I figured rudeness was what was expected.

This was also based on reading the bullying of others who expressed something other than a right-wing opinion. It bothered me that these folks wouldn't engage - it's not unusual for liberals to fold when faced with direct attacks. I'm not a liberal - though I share many of the same values. So I figured if my non-personal posts were greeted with language like "It scares me that you vote" and that opinion is applauded by another posted - well, then gloves are off.

So I was rude. I didn't start out that way - but, I figure that what is OK for the Gander is OK for the Goose.

I'll accept criticism that I was personal and rude as long as you accept that I was not the guy who started this kind of nonsense on this forum - I just raised it to its logical conclusion.

There are recent posts here about how quickly the veneer of civility can easily disappear. To a degree, my rudeness was trying to provoke bad behavior. If we succumb to anger and rhetoric here - what will happen when things are really at stake.

I really fear that we (not just in the US) are at a tipping point. We need to adjust spending and revenues. We need to address the problem of an increasing division between rich and poor. We also really, really need to slow population growth because there is only so much stuff to go around.

Rent the DVD of Children of Men. The film is interesting - but, the extras are really special. There is a long documentary on the likelihood of mass human migration due to environmental/economic forces.

I also really value the writings of Thomas Friedman.

While my methods might not be appreciated - sometimes catalysts are important - especially when change is inevitable. I am normally far more reasoned - but, I fear we have just stepped into a vortex of dislocation or as Yeats' wrote:

"Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned.
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."

I apologize for my rudeness - but, there was a context for it.

Harbor

WOW. I dont think I have ever been rude or abusive on this forum to anyone.
As far as being comfortable and free for so long and all of the other acusations that you have made about me-
~ Every thing that I have, I have worked very hard for. I dont really have much anyway...live in a 900 square foot home which hasnt had any remodel since I moved in 30 years ago. We have only bought one new car in that time -most of our cars were well ove 200,000 before we got fifty bucks for them at the junk yard. My daughter still drives our oldest car which is a used camry with 300,108 miles on it. I dont have cable tv or a washer and dryer or a dishwasher. We only have one bathroom in this home where we raised 3 children. I own two pair of shoes-one pair for work and the other for non work or I go barefoot on hot days. We chose to spend our money on providing quality education for our children, instead of relying on the tax dollars and judgment of others. We also gave sacrificially, to legitimate charities ...
~I seriously doubt that you are the best freakin friend I've got. Jesus is my best freakin friend, always has been and He has provided me with other "kittens" as friends who are really LIONS of faith and kindness and generosity and unconditional love. I have PEACE that doesnt come from this world and its "things". My life is full of HOPE and most of my greatest desires have been fullfilled. As far as lack of intellect, I was the top of my class in college, for what that is worth. You can learn many things and have many letters after your name, but if you cannot think for yourself, it is all worthless.
~As far as your post on religion, it was unintelligible, but I chose not to point that out.
~Read Lenin, Marx and Mao? Why would I waste my time on the writings of men who were dictators and whose actions spoke loud enough to tell me what they were made of?
~You stated...the rage that comes out from wealth being concentrated in so few hands? Theft is theft, no matter what the reason. Having rage, does not legitimize criminal activity.

~By the way, you have offered to provide me with examples of my rudeness on this forum...I would like to take you up on that offer if you please.

Hang in there Katz. You didn't owe this explanation to anyone, but it was awesome, none the less.

Katz,
You are awesome and I admire you.:eclipsee_gold_cup:

This thread is now closed.