I think the fact that there have been so many unanswered question about this presidency that no one is trusting what any one is saying. Even the left side questions what is going on you have to admit that. And it will continue.

You are quite right. I heard it wrong. Should have been 24 times since Reagan, not Reagan 20 times. Sorry about that.

Ok...so for months Obama or would that be Holder? I remember Holder saying he didn't read his emails or that memo. Anyway if Obama said he didn't know anything about it and then looked into it and then found out there was some National Security thing ... then it would make sense he would then invoke the previlege.

Not saying I agree just proposing.....

I believe they have turning some of the requested paperwork.

not in the article I read but then were addressing a situation occuring now and not in the 1980's

I'll try that with my boss next time. Sorry, I didn't read my emails.

Naive?
 

Richie, if you really in your heart of hearts believe that this 'fast and furious' thing with Holder and Obama is anything more than a political response to Obama upstaging the GOP with his immigration order, then I would say you've brought naïveté to an Olympic championship level.

My argument is that Congress has a whole lot more important things to address than the death if a border agent. When are they going to address the 10% tax increase everyone is going to pay starting on New Year's Day? Or what will they do about the deep and damaging cuts to the defense budget, which start on the same day? And if their inaction leads to another credit downgrade as the result of our political inability to come up with any fiscal reforms...who will they blame then? Almost all economists say that if these things happen, it will have a disastrous effect on our economy.

Romney says wait until after the election. What the heck does that mean? Will the lame duck Congress do anything between the day after the election and when they leave for their three-week Christmas vacation? What do you think?

Then after the swearing in of the 113th Congress on January 3, will they wait around and do nothing until after the presidential inauguration on January 20? Then if Romney is elected, he'll be very busy repealing legislation for a couple weeks. Who knows what Congress will be doing. Waiting for his 'leadership' to kick in maybe?

In the meantime the Pentagon checks will be bouncing, they'll be well into cancelling military contracts and laying off people. And we'll all have a helluva lot less take home pay after the new, elevated tax rates kick in.

And you're telling me I'm naive because I expect and demand better from Congress? Like I said, neither you or Bucco or DKlassen will convince me that Congress holding hearings, launching an impeachment proceeding for the attorney general, and maneuvering to get heir pusses on then evening news rises to the importance of what they should be working on. But naive? No I'm not naive...I'm PO'd!

Fast and Furious just an attempt at removing "the right to bear arms" but probably backfired when one of our american Heros was killed.
this administration is a disgrace!! One thing after another. But right now, let's focus on the economy folks. Keep the focus on the economy, Sharia law, and Agenda 21 and it's goodbye Obama.

Attorney General Eric Holder has already turned over 7600 documents and testified nine times before congress. The ATF agent in charge and AG Mike Mukasey, who started the program under George W Bush when it was called operation "Wide Receiver", have never been called to testify. If congress really wants to get to the bottom of this, why hasn't everyone involved been called?

If the House of Representatives vote next week to sanction Holder, from what I understand, they could have him handcuffed and taken right to the jail in the capital. I can't think of a better photo-op to energize the progressive base.


Politics - David A. Graham - Eric Holder, Contempt of Congress, and Fast and Furious: What You Need to Know - The Atlantic

Where are the links to back up all these accusations?

"Budget policy experts, including former CBO Director Alice Rivlin and Robert Greenstein of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, strongly endorsed the idea of giving Congress the first half of next year to come up with a comprehensive package or framework of savings and tax revenues, with the threat of the major tax expirations hanging over them.

“The fiscal cliff is a real cliff,” Rivlin said. “ It would be very bad for the economy and very bad for a lot of things people care about if we let all of the tax cuts expire all at once and the Alternative Minimum Tax and all the things that are in the cliff as well as the sequester.”

“It’s called [by some] kicking the can down the road,” she said. “It shouldn’t be. It is moving the fiscal cliff for a few months. It’s still there.”

Don

I give you this because as you see it is not just Romney as you just keep on insisting over and over and over.

In addition you seem to imply folks sitting around just stalling things...BOTH parties are working although it may not be up to YOUR standards...

"House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dave Camp, R-Mich., recently endorsed a strategy for linking an extension of the Bush-era tax cuts and other expiring tax breaks to “fast-track procedures” to compel Congress to enact comprehensive tax reform next year. Congress has embraced this approach 34 times over the years, according to Camp, including most recently as part of the Trade Promotion Authority.

“This is an idea House Republicans support, the Speaker [John Boehner] endorsed . . . and I urge the Senate and the president to get behind it as well,” Camp said in a May 17 speech. “Doing so will send a clear, strong message to the markets, to employers and families that Washington is serious about reforming our tax code and putting us on a path to sustained economic growth.”

PLUS

"Senate Democrats and some Republican House leaders may be “kicking the can down the road,” but talks are intensifying with special interest groups to keep $8 trillion in combined tax increases and spending cuts from automatically kicking in beginning the first week of January."

"Camp has outlined a House GOP approach that would collapse the six current individual tax rates to two rates of 10 percent and 25 percent, eliminate the Alternative Minimum Tax and “move from an outdated worldwide system of taxation to a more competitive territorial system” with lower corporate tax rates."

Is the congress inept...YES but you harp on one thing and one thing only and I know that Romney is well aware of what is going on from his rep in the House. The two parties talk to each other, even though our wonderful media is only interested in interviewing those who will make some waves.

No need to reply to a post that is just a rant from Hulababy. Rants are sometimes just posted when there is nothing they can think of to make any sense so they just string words together.

Fine, you're right again. The government selling guns without a tracking system to drug cartels with terrorist links in Mexico is NO BIG DEAL.

The murder of a U.S. Border Agent by these same guns. HELL, he knew the risks of trying to protect our border..........RIGHT!!

Then the Executive Branch on full out coverup to hide all the blunders they made. Heck!!; this is Obama we're talking about. It's not like he's freakin' Dick Nixon or some other scuzzy f'd up Republican.

WHAT THE HELL; we need to check the stock market clicker.

No wonder this nation is going to hell.

That's my rant for the day.

And do not forget the actual impetus for the entire big deal. A memo written by the AG saying things that were totally untrue and then telling the committee, oh never mind (he did the same thing when he blamed Bush for the entire thing but had to take that back also with an oops)....that letter saying that nobody knew anything that was withdrawn, and then the committee just wanted to find out WHY that first memo was written.....hence this stalemate !

Wow...please accept a warm welcome from me to the Political Forum, Hulababy...

Some posters just beg to be ignored...they tend to string words together (or even just one word..."seriously") when there is nothing they can think of to make any sense in order to try to belittle and scare off a new poster.

Please stick around and don't let anyone scare you off....

Please Don't
 

Keep finding stuff like this to rant about every day--and ignore the important things Congress should be working on--and when the inevitable happens, you can blame it on Obama.

What the heck will you do if he's re-elected? I wouldn't want you to endanger your health, Richie. Seriously, I don't. All this politics baloney isn't worth it.

I hope you do not feel as though I came down too hard on you. Sorry about that but it pushed some buttons for me.

The economy definitely is one big thing to focus on. Sharia Law is not practiced in the USA. We have criminal and civil law and Sharia Law is NOT practiced in the USA. Agenda 21 from the United Nations is a great plan. What do you have against protecting the environment, combating poverty, and promoting health around the world?

How is the Obama Administration trying to take your guns away? They are not! Yes, it was a failed effort with Fast & Furious and a Border Patrol agent was killed with one of the guns. That was tragic - but not as tragic as George W. Bush lying to the US about weapons of mass destruction and ended up costing the US over 4,400 American lives, hundreds of thousands with physical and mental scars, and cost well into the TRILLIONS of dollars for NOTHING.

Welcome to the Political Chat. Hope you do stick around and learn.

CBS News Hit It On The Head
 

"....House Republicans are obsessed on this issue (the Holder contempt and WH executive privilege issues), at the expense of addressing issues like jobs, the economy, immigration and the deficit..."

And we should vote to send ANY of these people back to Congress?

You have just shown a good reason to vote Democrat.

i can't find a reason to vote JUST for democrats - but i SURE can find LOTS of good reasons to vote AGAINST EVERY INCUMBENT! ;)

What Is "Contempt of Congress"? (Long but informational)
 

Just so we all understand what the House is spending all its time on with the "Fast and Furious" contempt of Congress allegation, maybe a re-visit of the rules and precedents might be helpful...

Q: What is a contempt citation?

A: Congress can vote to hold a congressional witness in contempt of Congress if it considers the witness to be obstructing its ability to carry out its constitutional powers. For a person to be held in contempt, Congress must vote on a contempt citation in committee. This is different from finding a person in contempt, which only happens after the committee votes on a citation and then passes along the vote to the full House for a vote on Contempt of Congress.

The process involves a series of legal maneuvers including the president's ability to assert executive privilege, as he did in this case. Executive privilege is rarely accepted by Congress, but the Justice Department maintains that infringing on executive privilege erodes the balance of powers.

Q: What happens next?

A: A vote in favor of a contempt in committee sends the decision to the full House for another vote. If that vote finds Holder in contempt, then, according to almost all legal scholars, it is unlikely that Holder will be prosecuted for criminal contempt. Congress's remedy, if it choose not to proceed with a trial and criminal conviction of Holder, would be a civil lawsuit in federal court.

Q: When is the last time an executive branch official faced a contempt citation?

A: Although this is the first time an attorney general has faced a contempt citation, other executive branch officials have been held in contempt of Congress.

Most recently, George W. Bush White House Counsel Harriet Miers and Chief of Staff Joshua Bolten were held in contempt of Congress despite Bush asserting executive privilege in their case regarding the firing of U.S.attorneys in 2007. During the vote in early 2008, a large number of Republicans walked out in protest of what they saw as a partisan vote by the Democrat-controlled House.

Miers and Bolten were accused of failing to cooperate in a congressional investigation into the mass firings of U.S. attorneys and allegations that the White House was using the Justice Department for political aims. Their citations marked the first time White House officials had been found in contempt of Congress.

Following conviction of contempt of Congress, Cingress would have the option to conduct a criminal trial attempting to convict Holder and possibly Obama. The offense only carries a penalty of $1,000 and up to one year in prison. Neiher a criminal trial or the sentence would be likely.

Instead, it is more likely the House will pursue civil prosecution in federal court, as it did in the Miers and Bolten cases having to do with the firing of federal attorneys in the Bush administration in 2007. The House General Counsel's office prosecuted the pair to gain access to the information Congress sought by the Democrat-controlled House.

Q: What was the result of the Congress' civil lawsuit against Bush White House staff Harriett Miers and Josh Bolten?

A: First, the entire process of committee hearings and a contempt vote, followed by a vote of the full House had to be repeated. The plaintiff in the original law suit was the 110th Congress, which ceased to exist when the 111th Congress was sworn in. The result of having no plaintiff meant that the entire process had to be repeated by the 111th Congress.

After the House held Miers and Bolten in contempt the second time, the Judiciary Committee sued the two aides in federal district court.

In August 2008, a federal judge ordered Miers to testify and Bolten to turn over documents, overruling the administration’s claim of executive privilege. That ruling was appealed.

In March 2009, a year after the suit was filed, Miers and Karl Rove, who had also become ensnared in a separate contempt proceeding, agreed to testify behind closed doors to the House Judiciary Committee. The deal broke the stalemate. The results of the closed door settlement were never announced.
-------
What it boiled down to is that Congress wasted a whole lot of time and spent a huge amount of money prosecuting a contempt of Congress case, with no apparent decision. It turned out to be all about political posturing and bickering. And while it was going on, Congress was to busy to govern.

It looks like it's happening again.

I only have a problem with you down playing this scandal. You don't think it's of any consequence........fine..........that your privilege, I guess.

It tells me a lot.

Just you and the Obama sycophants are of the opinion that it's a lot of nothing................unless, secretly you are really................naw, could it be?

Yes, RichieLion, it could be.

Scandal??? .....seriously? :doh:

http://i921.photobucket.com/albums/a...es/Unknown.jpg

The results of a poll in the Orlando Sentinel, hardly a conservative paper, indicated that 79% of the people polled wanted Holder to resign vis a vis 21% who did not want Holder to resign.

The Democrats pressured George W.'s attorney general and he did resign for less serious allegation than have been thrown at Holder.

The majority want his resignation because they recognize he is not working in behalf of "we the people" but rather in a personal manner for "he the emperor in chief" and also because he has shown a bias for minority issues such as the new black panthers, professor gates, the St. Paul MN case which he interferred with because a case was about to be won which would have gone against the disingenious "disparate impact" ,his attempts to prevent photo ID voter laws and stopping Governor Scott from securing the Florida's voter registration. An attorney general is suppose to conduct inquiries , investigations etc in an open and unbias manner. So I support the Republicans efforts to rid us of this ineffective and harmful AG.

And while I believe both Obama and Holder are up to their eyeballs in invovlement in Fast and Furious I am thankful that we as americans have the option and opportunity to to call such offenders out on allegations of impropriety unlike a banana republics. so perhaps it is a waste of time and money to some but in my view it is well worth it becaue it leaves open always that opportunity ensuring that freedom remains

It does seem that the Republicans are ganging up on Eric Holder and that they will do anything to undermine him and the Obama Administration at this point. The Republicans are basically holding the Obama Administration hostage at this point and nothing that benefits the agenda of the Democrats will get through the House.

Maybe a political deal could be struck so if AG Holder resigns, the Republicans would be open to more compromise on Democrat bills in the House?

However, if Holder does resign right before the election, it will be shown as a major sign of weakness and admitting to fault and the Republicans will play that up as a major fault of the Obama Administration.

I believe the best idea is for Holder to stay in office until after the election and when the Obama Administration wins again, he could resign at that point if it looks needed for a smooth running of the government.

I thought the only fantasy this weekend was Pixar's new movie "Brave".

Once again, only ridicule from the far right. No answers to anything, no discussion about the post, but only ridicule. Well, I could answer that I believe "you are better than that" or "I would expect more from you" but I won't do that. :wave:

he has been charged with doing wrong. Remember the concept? Was a predominant determinator in decision making in days gone by. Now replaced with political correctness (barf...happens every time I use the term) or political impact.

The magnitude of the poll cited would suggest that more than just republicans are in agreement to get rid of Holder for wrong doing as well as not representing we the people's interests....only his, Obama's and the blacks!!!

Is there no room for right or wrong anymore? ILLEGAL immigration....we do not enforce the laws for fear of hurting a voting blocks feelings.
We do not get rid of administration that is not doing the job unless there is a political trade off.

I sure hope that these distorted sentiments are reserved for the political applications in life only. I would hate to think there are that many who cheat, water down, lie, don't do what is right in every day life.

And the continual support for not doing what is right in the political arena only gets us the mediocre performers of today. Where doing what is right or for the good of the people has become a normal, acceptable trade off, if and when it is even a consideration anymore.

A lot of words about what should be done about Holder have been offered in the above posts....all partisan based and none include a personal opinion of his wrong doing.

Stand and be counted is another concept that is fast disappearing these days as well.

btk

Oh, so now I'm just some "generic" far right poster instead of someone you know?

I was jokingly referring to your fanciful last sentence mainly, but have it your way.

Only a new forum reader could take this post of yours at face value.

Of course you are not just some generic right winger. There is only one (thank goodness) RichieLion - who gets a very stingy pour of bar bourbon since Misty left the watering hole.

Fanciful last sentence? That bet I proposed (but you declined) a few months at the watering hole is still on the table. Remember, that all the Democrat votes will cancel out an equal number of Republican votes. Will Mrs. Lion's vote cancel out yours?

I don't quite remember the specifics of your bet, but I'm willing to wager that we have a one term President. I predict a landslide victory, but a simple majority if fine also.

Mrs. Lion is of like mind with me when it comes to The Amateur. She won't be voting for another 4 years to devolve our nation.

By the way, Misty was at the tap on "boy's night out", but she must have been brainwashed as I got my stingiest b.n.o. pour to date :)

I leave now for El Diablo for a scramble. Maybe I'll win a few bucks that way.

OR...he may be hiding something like this...

"Rewind to 2009. The fight over ObamaCare is raging, and a few news outlets report that something looks ethically rotten in the White House. An outside group funded by industry is paying the former firm of senior presidential adviser David Axelrod to run ads in favor of the bill. That firm, AKPD Message and Media, still owes Mr. Axelrod money and employs his son.

The story quickly died, but emails recently released by the House Energy and Commerce Committee ought to resurrect it. The emails suggest the White House was intimately involved both in creating this lobby and hiring Mr. Axelrod's firm—which is as big an ethical no-no as it gets."

Strassel: Axelrod's ObamaCare Dollars - WSJ.com

[QUOTE=Guest;509632]he has been charged with doing wrong. Remember the concept? Was a predominant determinator in decision making in days gone by. Now replaced with political correctness (barf...happens every time I use the term) or political impact.

The magnitude of the poll cited would suggest that more than just republicans are in agreement to get rid of Holder for wrong doing as well as not representing we the people's interests....only his, Obama's and the blacks!!!

Please refresh my memory. How has Attorney General Eric Holder only represented the interests of Holder, President Obama and "the blacks"? I must have slept through that, because I don't remember any such thing.

Landslide???? Landslide??? You're talking about a landslide???? Not the way Mitt's playing. Landslide????? :doh:

[quote=janmcn;509672]I would suppose that you are not aware of this book...

"This may have seemed like a small episode to some at the time, but it was only the proverbial tip of the iceberg. The U.S. attorney who was prosecuting that case — J. Christian Adams — resigned from the Department of Justice in protest and wrote a book about a whole array of similar race-based decisions on voting rights by Eric Holder and his subordinates at the Department of Justice.

The book is titled “Injustice: Exposing the Racial Agenda of the Obama Justice Department.” It names names, dates, and places around the country where the Department of Justice stopped its own attorneys from pursuing cases of voter fraud and intimidation, when it was blacks who were accused of these crimes."

Holder

Bucco.... Been trying to do some research on this. Have you heard that some of the documents requested are Grand Jury testimony which is illegal.

Just asking.

Not only is congress asking for secret Grand Jury testimony which is illegal, they are also asking for secret wire-tap information, which is also illegal.

What is Obama Hiding?
 

they are hiding the fact this was all a set-up. Part of a program designed to enable Obama to crack down on gun sales in the U.S. Just ANOTHER plan to take away your constitutional right!! One more step toward socialism. That's what this President is all about.

I had not heard that...all that I know for sure is that the documents are supposedly related to a memo that came from Justice saying that the Attorney General and the President were not involved and HAD NO KNOWLEDGE of this escapase or cover up of.

Then, suddenly Holder said that memo has to be retracted...the committee than asked why and can we see how you arrived at that conclusion, and THOSE are the documents that Holder will not give up.

THAT is my understanding, but in something like this...who knows.