I Hate To Keep Saying It...Do The Arithmetic!!
 

Without getting into a long debate on this, just a couple questions on Cain's detailed proposals...

• Who will get the majority of the benefit of the elimination of the death tax and capital gains taxes? Lower income Americans or those wealthy enough to have built up enough wealth to be subject to those types of taxes? Seems like another sweet deal for those wealthy campaign contributors.
• What does the "payroll tax" that will be eliminated pay for? Medicare? Social Security? Unemployment benefits? If the funding for those programs is eliminated, who will pay for them? Will they be eliminated?
• A 9% corporate tax rate? Guess what percentage of the total profits of American companies are actually paid to the federal government? A quick look at the GDP of the U.S. and the amount of taxes collected from businesses shows an average tax rate of 1.55%. (In 2009 total business tax payments were $225 billion on a Gross Domestic Product of abouit $14.55 trillion.) Forget about the IRS rate tables, think about how much companies actually pay the federal government! My guess is that Cain's "all corporations pay 9% in taxes on their profits" will be roundly rejected by corporate America.
• Making the same calculation for personal taxes paid shows an average tax rate for individual Americans in 2009 was 8.1% Cain's proposals might be terrific for the wealthy, whose tax payments would go down with a 9% rate, but not so good for poorer people. A 9% individual tax rate will actually increase the amount collected in individual income taxes!
• And a 9% national sales tax? That's 9% more than it is now.

I'll ask again...how come no outrage?

The answer? Because no one has bothered to do the arithmetic!!

Herman Cain will NOT be your candidate nor will the 9-9-9 plan ever come to passage.

YOUR candidate will be Mitt Romney and some other snake oil salesman who will lose once again to YOUR current president, President Obama.

'Nuff said. Next topic, now.

Good to see you back.

Keep drinking the Kool-Aid, Obama is done, over, kuput, out the door. We are just talking about who will be the next Republican President sworn in on January 20, 2013.:MOJE_whot:

I'm not wrong as far as I can clearly read Cain's own words on his own website. It's is a sales tax and not a VAT. Maybe if you read his own words it's might help to understand his reasonings of the revenue raised and the costs saved by his plan which combines the FLAT TAX with the FAIR TAX.

You do know that the corporations in your example have lower costs and increased revenue due to the new 9% Corporate Tax Rate. Their products most likely will still be cheaper.

You know, also, that all American's will have the option to buy or not buy these products, with the resulting effect of Americans being control of their own Federal Tax Bill.

This simplified Tax Code eliminates the vast bulk of the $430 Billion Dollars it cost to collect taxes under the present system. Quite a savings for the Government, isn't it?

I know I'm only a retired truck driver and not a financial services guy, but I think everyone needs to dig a little deeper and explore all the angles a little better.

Maybe this can eliminate everyone's speculation if you've got his plan,in his words, in front of you.

http://www.hermancain.com/999plan

P.S. to my good friend Buggy. What's the difference what your predictions are. They are irrelevant to the conversation here. How about starting another thread where all of your people and you can pat each other on the back and laud Obama and bask in the gloriousness of his presidency. I promise, I'll leave you alone on that thread. Or we can have a big discussion over an adult beverage if you want; or I can just listen to you pontificate on Obama's greatness and I'll just roll my eyes. Whatever you want.

http://www.hermancain.com/999plan

I applaud you on the diversity of your drinking friends. Your definitely a more calmer man then me.

Your expertise and posts are great, but here I think your Sales Tax Example is wrong under Cain 9-9-9 Plan in which sales tax is paid only by the end user, and not by the steel company and fabricator when they buy materials "from other businesses" in your Sales tax example.

This is a quote from Cain's website on 9-9-9 plan:

"Business Flat Tax – 9%
Gross income less all investments, all purchases from other businesses and all dividends paid to shareholders."

You are misleading.
 

Herman Cain has a background in Mathematics. I am sure HE "has bothered to do the arithmetic!!"

After reading several of your post, it is evident, that you do not have a complete understanding of what Herman Cain's 999 plan is about. Seriously, go read the darn plan. This constant referal to a VAT tax leads me to believe you either don't know exactly what the plan is about, or want to steer to some kind of un-related VAT discussion.

This is just a question and not an arguement - With the 9-9-9 tax plan of Herman Cain, exactly what is the difference between a National Sales Tax and a Value Added Tax?

It all doesn't matter......it is already crystal clear that the 9-9-9 plan is opposed by Repubs and Dems alike. Gimmics won't get him the nomination anyway. :boom:

Read And Listen
 

Richie, one of the rerasons that 9-9-9 will never see the light of day is the fact that on average a 9% tax rate will be a dramatic increase in taxation on American companies. Their costs would increase, as would their selling prices as the result of higher tax payments. A high percentage of American companies don't pay any tax at all. What do you think they're going to do when faced with the prospect of paying 9%? They will unlease their lobbyists on Washington like a large pack of mad dogs.

Again, look at the facts and do the arithmetic. Don't just listen to the nice-sounding campaign speeches. Other than Herman Cain himself, have you seen even one economist or someone or some organization knowledgeable in government finance who supports this plan? Even one? Even Grover Norquist was on TV this morning. No one is more conservative on fiscal matters than Norquist. He's on the far right of the Tea Party for crying out loud. He said that 9-9-9 was not only a bad idea, but could never be enacted into law.

Businesses pay less than 9%??? Really?? Is that why so many are uprooting for foreign shores?

Of course the establishment doesn't like this plan. They make a fortune from the current tax structure; from tax lawyers, to tax shelters (Berkshire Hathaway for an example, company of the always lovable Warren Buffett, the President's main man), to all the people and resources in the $430 Billion Dollar tabulation and collecting sectors of the government.

I never said it was anywhere near easy to get something like this passed. I've previously stated on an earlier thread that the legislators would be giving up a humongous portion of their own personal power in simplifying the tax code to this extreme.

It takes a real American and not a self-centered politician to even promote such a thing, and to promise to try to get the process in motion towards implementing such a thing.

Grover Norquist is but one of many who resists change, and doesn't share Herman Cain's economic assumptions on the real world outcome of his 9-9-9 plan if it ever came to fruition.

Does anyone know if the 9% sales tax includes services?

Clearly, selling a widget would incur the 9% tax.

Would a consultant's visit (like talking to a lawyer) be subject to that?

Gimmicks and BS sure got the nomination in 2008!!!

btk

VK, Are these incentives to bring business back to the States?
~Features zero tax on capital gains and repatriated profits
~Lowest marginal rates on production
~Allows immediate expensing of business investments
http://www.hermancain.com/999plan