Originally Posted by waynet

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/in...#axzz1GKY7O76e
Roosevelt was opposed to publicemployees striking which is far different than the issue of whether public employees should have the right to negotiate.

This from FDR....

""... Meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the government. All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations ... The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for ... officials ... to bind the employer ... The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives ...

"Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of government employees. Upon employees in the federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people ... This obligation is paramount ... A strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent ... to prevent or obstruct ... Government ... Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government ... is unthinkable and intolerable."



You can hang your hat on the small reference to strike, but I suggest you read and, in context, take in the entire quote ESPECIALLY...

"The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for ... officials ... to bind the employer ... The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives ..."

lots of references but for this...

http://www2.hernandotoday.com/conten...nions-a-no-no/

In this article, a good history lesson for some...you find reference to the Democratic tactic of using this action, ie. public sector unions to get votes and for context, this article was written in late 2010 BEFORE Wisonsin and before the Nov elections......this also....


"Most of us don't have a sense of where this is all heading. On the private sector side, Sen. Bob Casey, D-Penn., proposed a massive bailout for underfunded union pension plans in March. Private pension funds are estimated to be underfunded by $165 billion. This legislation would create a special fund for unions within the Pension Benefits Guarantee Corporation (PBGC), courtesy of taxpayers, as an "obligation of the United States" rather than an obligation of the PBGC through its insurance premiums."

I'm happy with the amount of discussion this post generated.

Being in Wisconsin, I got to see first hand the disgusting behavior of the democratic senators who fled the state; the teachers who called in sick so they could protest in Madison; the doctors writing excuses to teachers protesting without any exam; and the unruly out-of-state union goons who were only there to cause trouble!

Governor Walker's "Budget Repair Bill" and his two year budget go hand-in-hand. Significant cuts will be required by all government entities and school boards due to less aid from the federal and state government. By removing collective bargaining, Governor Walker has given these munincipalities and school boards the tools to help control costs and truly negotiate benefits and wages.

Several school boards rushed to negotiate "sweetheart" deals with their unions before the bill could be voted on and passed. The City of Green Bay negotiated an "emeritus" agreement with retired teachers where, if they work ten days days a year for three years, they will receive one years pay! Thirty days of work for a years salary! The City of Madison passed an even better deal for their teachers but you don't even have to work an hour! Unbelievable! These are extreme example but they happened because greedy unions and irresponsible school boards, working together, tried to beat Governor Walker's bill! And who pays for this - the taxpayers!

I just hope people really see what happened in Wisconsin and see the greed and corruption of the public unions.

Finally, the national Democrats have sent all their heavy hitters into Wisconsin to work on recall efforts of the Republican senators that voted to pass the bill. Any idea who is orchestrating this?

Stay tuned. The circus has NOT left the state yet!

As always the union response is pretty predictable...if you dont agree we will "hurt" you in some way...you are either with us or against us...

"March 10, 2011
Mr. Tom Ellis, President
Marshall & Ilsley Corporation
770 N. Water Street
Milwaukee, WI 53202
SENT VIA FASCIMILE AND REGULAR MAIL
Dear Mr. Ellis:
As you undoubtedly know, Governor Walker recently proposed a “budget
adjustment bill” to eviscerate public employees’ right to collectively bargain in
Wisconsin. ..

As you also know, Scott Walker did not campaign on this issue when he ran for
office. If he had, we are confident that you would not be listed among his largest
contributors. As such, we are contacting you now to request your support.

The undersigned groups would like your company to publicly oppose Governor
Walker’s efforts to virtually eliminate collective bargaining for public employees in
Wisconsin. While we appreciate that you may need some time to consider this
request, we ask for your response by March 17. In the event that you do not
respond to this request by that date, we will assume that you stand with
Governor Walker and against the teachers, nurses, police officers, fire fighters,
and other dedicated public employees who serve our communities.

In the event that you cannot support this effort to save collective bargaining,
please be advised that the undersigned will publicly and formally boycott the
goods and services provided by your company. However, if you join us, we will
do everything in our power to publicly celebrate your partnership in the fight to
preserve the right of public employees to be heard at the bargaining table.
Wisconsin’s public employee unions serve to protect and promote equality and
fairness in the workplace. We hope you will stand with us and publicly share that
ideal.

In the event you would like to discuss this matter further, please contact the
executive Director of the Wisconsin Professional Police Association, Jim Palmer,
at 608.273.3840.

Thank you in advance for your consideration. We look forward to hearing from
you soon.

James L. Palmer, Executive Director
Wisconsin Professional Police Association
Mahlon Mitchell,President
Professional Professional Fire Fighters
Jim Conway, President
International Association of Fire Fighters Local 311
John Matthews, Execuctive Director
Madison Teachers, Inc.
Keith Patt, Executive Director
Green Bay Education Association
Bob Richardson, President
Dane County Deputy Sheriffs Association
Dan Frei, Prersident
Madison Professional Police Officers Association

http://www.620wtmj.com/shows/charlie...04.html?blog=y

Using the word IDEAL while extorting is a new approach !!

Lets not forget this is a 2 way street. It is extortion when large corporations demand tax breaks and other sweetheart benefits to move into your town and then when the benefits are up they leave and start the same extotion process in another town. Then if their outrageous demands are not met again they blame the unions and off they go to another city or worse to another country. Check out what Pfizer did to New London,CT for all you anti-union pro business people,it's not pretty.

I did forget one point. If we want our workers to give up some of their hard earned money and benefits why aren't we asking the corporations to give up some of their profits so they might hire unemployed Americans who need a job? No,instead we continue to give them bigger tax breaks,for what I don't know,or maybe it has something to do with campaign donations. For all you seniors out there check out what the governor of Michigan has in store for you. If some of you think this is just about unions you are sadly mistaken. This is a war against what is left of the middle class and we are losing.

Originally Posted by waynet

Lets not forget this is a 2 way street. It is extortion when large corporations demand tax breaks and other sweetheart benefits to move into your town and then when the benefits are up they leave and start the same extotion process in another town. Then if their outrageous demands are not met again they blame the unions and off they go to another city or worse to another country. Check out what Pfizer did to New London,CT for all you anti-union pro business people,it's not pretty.

Let’s look at what Pfizer did to New London. In 2001 Pfizer came to New London. New London wanted the high tech, high paying jobs Pfizer that Pfizer would create. In return, New London agreed to have Pfizer pay only 20% of normal property taxes for ten years.

Pfizer proceeded to build a $294 million facility and hired or brought in 1400 people with good paying jobs. Later Pfizer bought Wyeth, another drug manufacturer. Wyeth had facilities that could accommodate the Pfizer operation. Pfizer then consolidated its operations in nearby Groton, CT – 4.1 miles down the road. No one had to move, no one was fired and property tax payments to New London did not change. Pfizer remains New London’s largest taxpayer.

I guarantee you that the $294 million for construction that went into the plant was a boom for New London. I guarantee you that the jobs that did not leave continue to benefit both New London and Groton. Please show me what Pfizer, “…did to New London, CT that was not that pretty.”

Originally Posted by waynet

Lets not forget this is a 2 way street. It is extortion when large corporations demand tax breaks and other sweetheart benefits to move into your town and then when the benefits are up they leave and start the same extotion process in another town. Then if their outrageous demands are not met again they blame the unions and off they go to another city or worse to another country. Check out what Pfizer did to New London,CT for all you anti-union pro business people,it's not pretty.

I dont get your point. A lot of people like me are not just in favor of reforming public sector unions. We do NOT want government favoring anyone.. especially using tax money to bribe businesses with grants and tax abatements is wrong. Every business should compete on a level playing field with current business in that area. I resent my government confiscating my tax money from me and then GIVING (redistributing) it to anyone.. it is wrong.. that is socialism.. period!!
JJ

Giving tax incentives to businesses to move into an area is hardly extortion. It smart for the business to ask for them and smart for the local government to provide them. It means employment for the area from not only the people working there but also the money these people then spend in the community.

Extortion is the unions being able to demand, and get, whatever they want because they control the school boards, government bodies and elected officials. Who's looking out for the taxpayers?

People are waking up and seeing what the unions "bring" to public workers and taxpayers!

The realistic fact concerning corporations is that they come into existence to make a profit and anything short of immoral, unethical or illegal benefits a community. Corporations create good paying jobs and do reward competent people via performance evaluations systems that prove their value. I could offer criticism to the system but in the end it works best. On the other side we have union leaders who continually make demands for increases in pay and benefits primarily to justify their existence and with no corrosponding increase in productivity or quality. I have witnessed union employees intentionally slowing down so they could get overtime. A nuclear plant being built in upstate New York was over budget and substantially behind schedule for completion. The culprit. Union employees were making so much money on that job they did not want it to end. so the day welders would come in and weld pipe and at night the welders would come in and break welds. At least that is what the local paper printed.

As an human resources officer I was assigned to a subsidiary we acquired. I found my staff being underpaid. I voluntarily gave up 10% pay increases for three years because I believed pay should be commensurate with performance. The senior management team I worked with were elitist and so I was rewarded with providing good example as being referred to as that HR guy having a "blue collar mentality". They didn't miss my point. I missed the point. Corporations are based on profit, incentives and the like. It is its life blood and while it plays well in the movies sentimentality doesn't work in corporations opportunities do and as long as the people taking advantage of those opportunities do so morally ethically and honestly it is the american way and we are better for it. I will say in my behalf that I always believed that my focus should be about the work and doing the best that I could and the rewards would follow and in the end that proved true.

I strongly believe that quality teachers will be better off on their own and that the education system will vastly improve once the unions lose their hold on schools and politicians.

Very well said Rubicon. Thank you.

Dennis -

Your post about the retired teachers getting a year's salary for working 10 days a year for 3 years in Green Bay and even a better deal in Madison sounds like a bad deal for taxpayers - BUT - if YOU were a retired teacher or family member of one in Green Bay or Madison, would YOU like the deal? See, it all depends whose ox is being gored. What is bad for some is great for others. Your honest answer will most likely be that you would take the deal and be very happy.

Is there any further development as to whether or not Wisconsin teachers will strike? Most of the students don't care - even though they say they are on the side of the teachers. They just want time off of school.

Why is it that Wisconsin and Iowa have the greatest number of young people (student ages) that are addicts to meth? These states used to have great work ethic but no longer.

It's been fairly quiet since the bill was passed by the Senate Wednesday and signed by the governor Friday.

There are protestors in Madison and several groups are picketing other state office buildings but nothing like it was the past month. Maybe all the out-of -state union workers that were picketing finally went back home to take a shower!

This is far from over as there will be challenges and court cases but Governor Walker and the Republican Senators believe everything was done legally. I'm sure they had dozens of constitutional attorneys review and approve everything they did so hopefully nothing will be overturned.

They have arrested the individual that sent the death threats to the Republican senators. The person is female but that's all that has been released.

But...there were other threats and no news on those. It's unfortunate that a minority of people can cause such problems.

BBQMan....10 year sweetheart deal is up and guess what Pfizer is gone. And please look up Supreme Court ruling on eminant domain as it concerns Pfizer and New London residents. One other point..the 1400 jobs were not new jobs most people were transferred from Groton.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/13/ny.../13pfizer.html more for BBQ on the Pfizer deal

tbug, I can answer your question about the drug problem in Wisconsin/Iowa and its effect on the state, students, et al. In the early and late 80's the gangs from Chicago infiltrated both states and it wasn't until kids started showing up in the emergency rooms did the authorities have a clue of the enormous drug problem. I mean Des Moines leadership actualy believed in their own press that is too busy pumping up the quiet and not having big city problems propaganda when these deviates came in and ended all of that . I do believe that the drug culture has had a devasting affect on our country by increasing crime by young people who if were not chemically affected would have never given thought to those actions that caused others harm. And in great part for the decline in our educational system and the bad behavior by our young, you k now the jersey shore types. Our leaders have failed on the war on drugs because they chose to.
As to your reference " depends on whose ox is being gored" the obvious answer pertiaining to the Wisconsin issue is the taxpayer of course. When a worker becomes more obsessed about what they are earning than how they are performing quality/quantity slip. I have seen it time and time again I cannot tell you the number of employees I dealt with who actually believed they were worth much more than they were being paid. So we implemented a program to see how employees rated themselves and how their peers and supervisors rated them. Does the term " legend in his own mind " ring a bell. As I stated in a previous post I was always about being professional first and as a manager always setting good example and never espousing poision leadership. duty first. Unionization negates all of that and more and so as a taxpayer I believe its my ox that gored.